How to take leadership as a Man

[Engineer4God]

Dear Catholic men,

I am a 29 year old single catholic man and I’ve been going through dating purgatory for the past ten years just trying to get past the neverending stream of first and second dates the went nowhere. 3 months ago, I accomplished the impossible- I asked out a young woman during COVID-19 lockdown (we had met on a couple retreats the previous year). We dated virtually for one month and in person for two. We were so happy and I was almost certain she was the one. But last week, she suddenly ended the relationship without warning.

She told me several reasons for the breakup, but mulling it over, I’ve come the conclusion that one of the main reasons is that I failed to take leadership of the relationship. It’s not that I didn’t want to, but I’m just inexperienced and don’t know how. I don’t know how I’m even supposed to learn something like this. I tend to be indecisive, scatterbrained, timid, clingy, unassertive, underconfident, unempathetic, selfish and lacking in generosity. I have good intentions and a firm relationship with God, but these shortcomings stunting my growth. I’m definitely not proud of being this way and I badly want to change. I need to take leadership as a real man and pursue my calling to marriage. I don’t know where to start. I need help. How can I begin to do this?

 

[otjm]

In all seriousness, what you need is a counselor, not an unknown group of non-qualified individuals. If you are in a larger metropolitan area, you may find that the Church has a relationship with qualified counselors; in Oregon there is a Catholic Counseling Center.

If not, you might see if there is a Lutheran center; or speak with your pastor about finding a certified counselor.

And no, this is not a suggestion to seek out such counseling for a priest; unless they are a certified counselor, they have no more qualifications than anyone on the forum.

This is not a moral issue. It is a counseling issue. Major difference.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

All the stuff you mention is fixable.
But it’s easier to fix with guidance.

 

[Dan123]

If you were dating a woman and she was…

indecisive, scatterbrained, timid, clingy, unassertive, underconfident, unempathetic, selfish and lacking in generosity

Would you say the issue was she wasn’t taking leadership?

Give her some time and she may give you a more clear answer on why things ended. Her perception of you may be different than yours.

 

[Lea101]

She told me several reasons for the breakup

What are the reasons though? Your interpretation about you not taking leadership may be way off. What she said here is important if you want us to give proper advice.

 

[FiveLinden]

So I’m not a believer and you asked for advice from Catholic men so forgive me for butting in but here’s an idea: stop looking for women and start doing good if you are not actively doing so now. Volunteer for Habitat for Humanity or a homeless shelter or a community pantry. Put the hours in. That experience will address all the issues you think you have. And someone might notice you working for others rather than fretting about yourself.

 

[Irishmom2]

I tend to be indecisive, scatterbrained, timid, clingy, unassertive, underconfident, unempathetic, selfish and lacking in generosity.

These have little to do with leadership.

They are the kinds of things that men or women would not find particularly endearing. As others have said, you can counseling to help with these things. Get yourself straightened out and you may find your attempts at relationships will improve.

 

[Engineer4God]

-She said she felt she had to do most of the leading in conversation because often times I didn’t have any topics in mind.

• I was indecisive in choosing a place to eat out and I also complained to her about not knowing where I should move (to move out of parents’ house for the first time)
  -I lacked empathy to understand how she was feeling and I wasn’t able to “be there for her” emotionally because I was too stoic and silent in response.
  -She thought I rely too much on books and not on my own experience
  -She thought I see counselors and doctors excessively
  -I’m messy and seldom take the time to clean up as much as she does.
  -I’m not a good cook
  -she gave me gifts but I didn’t get her anything
  -I was emotionally clingy because she was my first girlfriend after 10 years of getting rejected

 

[TheLittleLady]

Jesus demonstrated servant leadership when He knelt and washed the feet of the disciples.

A leader must be a servant.

Please, seek out counseling.

 

[JulianN]

-She said she felt she had to do most of the leading in conversation because often times I didn’t have any topics in mind.

• I was indecisive in choosing a place to eat out and I also complained to her about not knowing where I should move (to move out of parents’ house for the first time)
  -I lacked empathy to understand how she was feeling and I wasn’t able to “be there for her” emotionally because I was too stoic and silent in response.
  -She thought I rely too much on books and not on my own experience
  -She thought I see counselors and doctors excessively
  -I’m messy and seldom take the time to clean up as much as she does.
  -I’m not a good cook
  -she gave me gifts but I didn’t get her anything
  -I was emotionally clingy because she was my first girlfriend after 10 years of getting rejected

These behaviors and qualities are less about leading than actually contributing your fair share to the relationship. I agree that counseling is in order.

 

[Leek]

Seems like you’re a more introverted personality type, I can see some of the things you listed in myself. If someone asks me how I feel I’ll want a week to think on that lol. Have you ever taken a personality test? It can help you understand yourself better, so you can work on problem areas. I have trouble making decisions because I’m trying to consider the very best one. If I vocalize my thought process or say “ I’m having trouble deciding right now because I’m overthinking I’ll pick the next time” it can help the other person understand what’s going on. I’m also scatterbrained and messy because I’m always lost in thought, I do know however that a clean house has a positive effect on mental health so I’ve tried to make it a priority.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

timid, clingy, unassertive, underconfident, unempathetic,

“Look hungry, go hungry.”

Nothing is less attractive to women than the stink of desperation. If you are giving off a vibe that says you desperately want to latch onto a woman and get married, that will be a turn off to most women. Not because they don’t want to get married, but because it looks like you’re just desperate for anyone who will have you.

Imagine a car salesman really desperately pushing a particular car and begging you to take it. Your spidey sense might tell you there’s something wrong with it.

You need to build your confidence outside of a relationship first. Get in shape if you’re not already. Keep your career humming. Keep things light at first: the beginning of a relationship should be easy and fun: don’t immediately jump into deep discussions about marriage and stuff.

Taking “leadership” does not mean you have to be a meathead barking orders at women. Those guys are insecure below the surface and it shows. You can exude confidence in a relationship once you’re secure in who you are outside of a relationship.

 

[Irishmom2]

If you are giving off a vibe that says you desperately want to latch onto a woman and get married, that will be a turn off to most women.

Clearly a guy that has dated unsuccessfully for ten years, “dates” online for a month, then in person for a month and thinks “she is the one” may be giving off that vibe.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Nothing is less attractive to women than the stink of desperation. If you are giving off a vibe that says you desperately want to latch onto a woman and get married, that will be a turn off to most women. Not because they don’t want to get married, but because it looks like you’re just desperate for anyone who will have you.

This. Amen.

Add to that, when I get you to marry me, I’m going to be a slob who can’t even decide pizza or Thai for supper and I’ll likely not get you a birthday gift.

One advice, not all of us are perfectly tidy. Recognize if you are messy and have a housekeeper come in once or twice each week.

 

[Engineer4God]

Thanks for the recommendation

 

[Crusader13]

I don’t know where to start. I need help. How can I begin to do this?

Your situation is common among young men of today.

I would suggest a book by Kennedy Hall. Terror of Demons: Reclaiming Catholic masculinity. His book is very good and deals with many issues facing men today.

I would also recommend checking out some articles and podcasts by Jordan Peterson. He’s written extensively on masculinity in today’s world and has some excellent advice. These two recommendations should help out greatly and could be just what you’re looking for.

 

[Engineer4God]

Thanks for the recommendations. The book looks really good. I’m already somewhat familiar with Jordan Peterson. I should dig more into his stuff.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You’ve already gotten lots of good advice here. But I would add that this all might also be one lady’s opinion, one lady’s preference, or one lady being too picky.

I myself had certain preferences for men I dated. It doesn’t mean that men who weren’t like how I preferred necessarily needed to change. Another woman might have found them just what she wanted. Not every woman is looking for a guy to “take leadership of the relationship”.

In addition, you list a whole bunch of negative qualities that you believe you have. Yet, I’m guessing that if you’re planning marriage, then you’re managing to hold down a job and do a lot of things that responsible men in their late 20s do. If you’re an engineer, as your username suggests, then you didn’t get that job by being underconfident or indecisive; it’s not some easy job that grows on trees.

If you truly want to make changes and become more confident or whatever, for your own personal growth and so that you can better serve God, then go for it. Self-help can be a beautiful thing. But don’t base your opinion of yourself on feedback you got from some girl who dated you for 3 months and then decided to call it quits.

 

[EmilyAlexandra]

indecisive, scatterbrained, timid, clingy, unassertive, underconfident, unempathetic, selfish and lacking in generosity

If you don’t mind a comment from a non-Catholic woman:

Not all of the qualities that you list are necessarily bad things. The ones that leap out at me as cause for concern are not the ones that you would place under the heading of “leadership”. I think somebody being selfish and ungenerous would be a deal-breaker for most people in a relationship. I just could not imagine being with someone who was always putting his own interests first and not caring about my interests. Meanness is also a very unattractive quality. As for being unable to empathise with others, I would find that alarming. It’s a quality often found in psychopaths and narcissists! Not that I’m saying that you are a psychopath or a narcissist, but if you cannot perceive or interpret other people’s emotions, that will not make relationships easy.

As for all the other things you list, these are reasons why this particular woman does not want to have a relationship with you, not reasons why all women would not want to be in a relationship with you.

My husband, who is the most wonderful person I’ve ever known, certainly does not have a whole lot of confidence or self-esteem. He is generally quite a depressed, anxious person. I just think these are reasons to love him even more.

 

[childinthefaith]

I tend to be indecisive, scatterbrained, timid, clingy, unassertive, underconfident, unempathetic, selfish and lacking in generosity.

It appears from this, these are the items with which you should start.
I promise you no woman is attracted to clingy men who lack confidence, empathy, are selfish, not generous, and I think you said timid.

That said, it also sounds as if you may need to learn about chivalry.

Also, read Ephesians 5:23-33. Think about how we are there told to behave as husbands, and pray to God to help you with those qualities.
When you do marry, you’ll need to know well how to put your wife and her needs above your own. It sounds as if you are struggling with all the traits that will prevent that, so work on those. A woman wants a strong, confident man who has servant leader qualities. That is to say, you have to treat her as if she is your queen, and put her needs above your own, but you have to be a strong dude, clearly your own man, first.

Now, I will here also state that, in the 34 years I’ve known my wife, and the 31 years we’ve been married, we have never once considered each other friends. We went from dating to marriage, and have been husband and wife since, but never have considered each other friends - we feel that is demeaning to our actual state. I realize of course many say you must be friends first, but I intended after our first date to marry her, and behaved in that matter. And here we are…