How to talk with Muslims whom want to convert me to Islam

[Jerusha]

These few guys trying to convert me btw are friendly…its just they bring up the conversion thing continuously… But to the guys trying to convert me my message to them is that I would like to continue to try to build bridges building on ideas of unity between Judaism, Islam and Christianity.

I worked in a public school system where Mormons were trying to turn it into a public Mormon school. They even tried games at the Catholic school. I should have gotten out when the getting out would have been easy. In your situation, I would have a cautious conversation with an administrator about the issue, and see where it goes. If that doesn’t work, then get out fast.

I had another bad dream about it this morning.

 

[friardchips]

I’ve been similar situations to yours throughout my life.

I sometimes think this must be a cultural thing, but in America the pressurization for conversation (from any religion…well…except Judaism) seems a lot more…intense…than in Asia.

Pressurization seems wrong; encouragement though, is good.

I’ve seen people preach on Subways, Buses, and in open public in a way that just doesn’t happen in say Japan or Korea because of a cultural barrier → Faith is a very private thing and such actions taken in public would be deemed ill-mannered and rude.

Faith is not only a “private thing”.

The fact that these are co-workers and you are at a religious institution makes this very tricky for you.

Agreed.

I’ve worked for a few in my life as well, but I never was given the hard sell you are getting. It was always mostly “invitational,” with the aim of at least getting me to understand their world view as the goal as opposed to outright conversion.

Sometimes listening to people is all that is needed, but this doesn’t mean one has to agree or even be oppressive with others in return, and it depends on the situation and the environment as to whether it is appropriate to allow oneself to be engaged, in the first place.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

May I ask what type of work you do there?

Basically security/office work. I check people in, make phone calls etc

 

[ChineseCatholic]

Think about the context i said that in though.

-Here- in America this happens:

1.) **Wisdom of the Holy Spirit - Open Air Preaching in Chicago Subway **

youtube.com/watch?v=UExmdoR2r0M

2.) **Young woman preaching in New York subway **

youtube.com/watch?v=4eJ_evDlJhY

I mean heck…

3.) **Tatsuo preaching in Japanese, encounter w/ Muslim, filmed in Beverly Hills
**

youtube.com/watch?v=6NlhWvQAoT0

All i’m saying is that there is a lot less of that in the East Asian countries.

There’s a powerful antipathy for this sort of thing, where it feels like the preacher is violating a normative code - ie: they are forcing you to listen.

The only time i’ve seen it happen where social acceptability increases is in Korea, where its usually done as a group activity with the people in question coming out with placards/signs/etc for their church community as a whole.

But individual street preaching?

Under the context i’m saying this in:

1.) **Beijing Subway, Line 13, morning rush hour - just a little crowded
**

youtube.com/watch?v=xG-meaGqg-M

2.) People stuffed onto a train in Tokyo, Japan (train stuffing Tokyo)

youtube.com/watch?v=E7kor5nHtZQ

Trust me - you aren’t winning souls or converts for the Lord under these circumstances…

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Thanks to all for the advice,

I worked in a public school system where Mormons were trying to turn it into a public Mormon school. They even tried games at the Catholic school. I should have gotten out when the getting out would have been easy. In your situation, I would have a cautious conversation with an administrator about the issue, and see where it goes. If that doesn’t work, then get out fast.

I had another bad dream about it this morning.

Well let me say I can handle this issue and I feel confident about it… Your situation sounds even more difficult then mine I must say. I see a similarity though between the Mormons and Muslims in terms of their converting efforts.

Its not like I am prevented from being Catholic at my workplace…I have worn my cross to the Mosque and had no issues…On my keychain is a Knights Templars cross and no one has been offended by it so I feel comfortable at my workplace. Even with the fact that yesterday the one Muslm guy was going on sarcastically about pork, ladies, and drinking… He also said to me look your a good guy but Allah(and btw Allah is in the Arabic Bibles first page 17 times, to me Allah=Jesus) wants us to work in a way that praised Allah…he was saying imagine your at a job and your doing good things but not the things you were told to do by your boss…he was basically saying Christians do good things but do not follow the correct path and of course plenty of non Muslims have a similar stance.

I had another guy say to me well if your walking down the street and you see a women covered up, and another women not covered then wont you go for the non covered women…the same brother then seemingly made a comment saying Christian women should dress more conservative…but of course just look at some of Pat Robertsons comments and Trumps spiritual advisors religious comments they are just as controversial. Another member itt brought up that I should bring up the site Jihad watch to the Muslim guys trying to convert me, I can not as a Christian do that for it would be like me bringing up stromfront @ a Jewish Syangogue. Knowing the hardshrip that our Lord and Savior Jesus went through, I feel the very least I can do is contine to praise my Christian religion in front of my Muslim friends and thats my plan…that coupled with using historical alliances between Muslim and Christian to try and get these few Muslim guys trying to convert me…to accept me as a Christian.

 

[Jerusha]

Thanks to all for the advice,

Well let me say I can handle this issue and I feel confident about it… Your situation sounds even more difficult then mine I must say. I see a similarity though between the Mormons and Muslims in terms of their converting efforts. … Knowing the hardshrip that our Lord and Savior Jesus went through, I feel the very least I can do is contine to praise my Christian religion in front of my Muslim friends and thats my plan…that coupled with using historical alliances between Muslim and Christian to try and get these few Muslim guys trying to convert me…to accept me as a Christian.

Don’t let them intimidate you into hiding your faith.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Don’t let them intimidate you into hiding your faith.

It has yet to occur, and if It did I would certainly follow your good advice. Thanks alot my friend.

 

[fnr]

I would say that history supports Christianity in a way that it doesn’t support Islam.

Jesus died on the cross. Historians agree with Christians. Historians disagree with Islam.

Jesus’ first followers were Christians, not Muslims (as a “valid” hadith of Ibn Abbas claims) – in the period between 30 and 50 AD . Historians agree with Christians, not Muslims.

The Quran uses stories about Jesus from the region where it originated. Many of those stories were written using Christian stories written centuries after Jesus actually lived and died. For example, the Quan’s story of the child Jesus blowing life into clay birds was found in the Syriac Infancy Gospel – a language common among some Arabs. Also, the story of the “Companions in the Cave” is taken from the story of the “Seven Sleepers of Ephesus,” a Christian story found in the writings the eastern father, Ephraim.

The Quran has an incongruous repetition of John 6’s bread of life discourse in Sura 5:112-115. It looks like an intertext reference. What is the possible purpose of a Eucharist in the Quran? This is just one of many pieces of evidence to suggest that the Quran is a pastiche of regional Christian and Jewish writings, including possibly a lectionary. The word “Quran” is close to the Syriac word “Qeryana,” which means “lectionary.”

The Quran misstates the doctrine of the trinity. This may be a result of its originating in a region where its nearest neighbors were non-Chalcedonian Christians. The Quran’s statements could easily have been taken from debates within the region between Jacobites and Nestorians (which the hadith of Ibn Abbas incorrectly claims to be present at the time of Jesus).

Mecca, supposedly a great center of trade in the Middle East at the time Muhammad lived, does not appear on any extant map before the 9th century, and was not located on any known major trade route (based on the work of Patricia Crone).

The earliest mosques don’t have qibla facing either Jerusalem or Mecca, but Pella (based on Dan Gibson’s work). The geography of the holy city of Bakkah in the Quran does not match the geography of Mecca.

There is little archaeological evidence of the “great battles” of the early Rashidun military victories recorded in Muslim histories of the region.

The story of Muhammad’s first revelation at Hira was first narrated (supposedly) by Ibn Ishaq, who was a court tutor in Baghdad during the reign of Al-Mansur, the Abbasid caliph. He was present when an embassy from the Frankish King. At the time, the most popular and widespread of Germanic poets was a hymnist named Caedmon from Whitby Abbey in Northumbria (England), which had close ties to the Frankish court (for example, Alcuin was a member of Charlemagne’s inner circle). Arabs were known for their love of poetry, and the story of how Caedmon was called to produce poetry – as narrated in Book 4, Chapter 24 of Venerable Bede’s Ecclesiastical History of the English People – is virtually identical to the story of Muhammad at Hira. Notably, Ibn Ishaq’s original biography is entirely lost to history, and it was “edited” by his protege, Ibn Hisham. It’s very probable that the story of Muhammad’s original revelation comes from the story of Caedmon.

None of the valid hadith can be credibly dated using the isnads (chains of transmission) before the early eight century, during the reign of Abd al-Malik (based on the work of Joseph Schact and Juynboll). It’s likely that the manufacturing of a new religion, based on a possible previously compiled Quran, to support the new Umayyad empire was employed a means of political centralization and control.

 

[SyroMalankara]

He also said to me look your a good guy but Allah(and btw Allah is in the Arabic Bibles first page 17 times, to me Allah=Jesus) wants us to work in a way that praised Allah…he was saying imagine your at a job and your doing good things but not the things you were told to do by your boss…he was basically saying Christians do good things but do not follow the correct path and of course plenty of non Muslims have a similar stance.

How does he know the “correct path” isn’t what the Church says?

I had another guy say to me well if your walking down the street and you see a women covered up, and another women not covered then wont you go for the non covered women…

What does he mean “go for”?

 

[Jerusha]

When working among people such as Muslims and Mormons, we need to be thoroughly grounded in our own faith, and understand the fallacies of the other faith, even if we do not verbalize that understanding. Otherwise, we may experience cultural drift, taking on some of the negative cultural characteristics of the other faith.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

I would say that history supports Christianity in a way that it doesn’t support Islam.

Jesus died on the cross. Historians agree with Christians. Historians disagree with Islam.

Jesus’ first followers were Christians, not Muslims (as a “valid” hadith of Ibn Abbas claims) – in the period between 30 and 50 AD . Historians agree with Christians, not Muslims.

The Quran uses stories about Jesus from the region where it originated. Many of those stories were written using Christian stories written centuries after Jesus actually lived and died. For example, the Quan’s story of the child Jesus blowing life into clay birds was found in the Syriac Infancy Gospel – a language common among some Arabs. Also, the story of the “Companions in the Cave” is taken from the story of the “Seven Sleepers of Ephesus,” a Christian story found in the writings the eastern father, Ephraim.

The Quran has an incongruous repetition of John 6’s bread of life discourse in Sura 5:112-115. It looks like an intertext reference. What is the possible purpose of a Eucharist in the Quran? This is just one of many pieces of evidence to suggest that the Quran is a pastiche of regional Christian and Jewish writings, including possibly a lectionary. The word “Quran” is close to the Syriac word “Qeryana,” which means “lectionary.”

The Quran misstates the doctrine of the trinity. This may be a result of its originating in a region where its nearest neighbors were non-Chalcedonian Christians. The Quran’s statements could easily have been taken from debates within the region between Jacobites and Nestorians (which the hadith of Ibn Abbas incorrectly claims to be present at the time of Jesus).

Mecca, supposedly a great center of trade in the Middle East at the time Muhammad lived, does not appear on any extant map before the 9th century, and was not located on any known major trade route (based on the work of Patricia Crone).

The earliest mosques don’t have qibla facing either Jerusalem or Mecca, but Pella (based on Dan Gibson’s work). The geography of the holy city of Bakkah in the Quran does not match the geography of Mecca.

There is little archaeological evidence of the “great battles” of the early Rashidun military victories recorded in Muslim histories of the region.

The story of Muhammad’s first revelation at Hira was first narrated (supposedly) by Ibn Ishaq, who was a court tutor in Baghdad during the reign of Al-Mansur, the Abbasid caliph. He was present when an embassy from the Frankish King. At the time, the most popular and widespread of Germanic poets was a hymnist named Caedmon from Whitby Abbey in Northumbria (England), which had close ties to the Frankish court (for example, Alcuin was a member of Charlemagne’s inner circle). Arabs were known for their love of poetry, and the story of how Caedmon was called to produce poetry – as narrated in Book 4, Chapter 24 of Venerable Bede’s Ecclesiastical History of the English People – is virtually identical to the story of Muhammad at Hira. Notably, Ibn Ishaq’s original biography is entirely lost to history, and it was “edited” by his protege, Ibn Hisham. It’s very probable that the story of Muhammad’s original revelation comes from the story of Caedmon.

None of the valid hadith can be credibly dated using the isnads (chains of transmission) before the early eight century, during the reign of Abd al-Malik (based on the work of Joseph Schact and Juynboll). It’s likely that the manufacturing of a new religion, based on a possible previously compiled Quran, to support the new Umayyad empire was employed a means of political centralization and control.

That is fascinating, are you saying I can tell the Muslims that* the Quan’s story of the child Jesus blowing life into clay birds was found in the Syriac Infancy Gospel * I have also read that the Quran uses the term Holy Spirit so I would love to be able to bring up the Holy spirit from the Quran to the Muslims…but I would like specific verses because I know these Muslims will want the specific Quran versa and its context.

Mind you I am not going to be telling these Muslims anything offensive about Islam…perhaps if I was not a Christian I might have a different mindset but my whole goal here is to get these Muslims to accept me as a Christian…I have told them I do not engage in any sort of religious debates rather I believe in conversation and learning about other religions.

If you have other Quran quotes that I can use to show Muslims that the Quran accepts Christianity(which other Muslims have told me, one Muslim told me he views Jesus as the Son of God) well that would be a thing of beauty.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

How does he know the “correct path” isn’t what the Church says?

What does he mean “go for”?

Good point,

As for the 2nd point the man was basically saying that unmarried men might talk to a uncovered woman(perhaps get her number or ask her on a date) before talking to a woman whom is covered totally(except for her eyes) He was trying to say its a good thing that some Muslim women cover completely to which I disagree with and can cite Islamic proof to back me up.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Praise Jesus…thanks to fnr I have been led to the following, this is incredible the Quran describes Jesus as the Messiah,

Sahih International: [And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah].

Pickthall: (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah).

I am joyful, and ready to take these quotes to my Muslim friends as further proof of the similarities between Islam and Christianity,

The Quran acknowledges the Hebrew and Catholic religion, here it is for all to see regardless of that the ISIL types say,

Sahih International: And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel

corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=3&verse=48

Obv our religions are not exactly the same, but I am confident these verses will bring unity.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Talked with the Muslim guys today and nothing really changed…no advancements of unity were made… At one point while I was again talked to about converting to Islam I said to the guys hey you want to become Christian and get baptized, we can go to a Church now…to that point they said nothing. But where there is a will there is a way, surely I can get these two guys to admire the Christian religion as opposed to when they offend me and say the Bible has been changed over the years or the Christian religion has been changed over the years. I emphatically let them know that the Bible has not changed, that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and was born on Dec 25th(Christmas)…

Perhaps though in going forward I will concentrate on neutral subjects with these two Muslim guys like favorite sports teams or favorite foods. Undoubtedly though the one guy will ask me again with a smile on his face… hey have you taken your shahada…at this point anytime this type of convert point is brought up I will respond with a smile on my face, saying have you been baptized yet brother? And like I said their is no intimidation going on and I do not feel uncomfortable talking to the guys…I think the most important thing is for me to emphatically let these guys know I will remain Christian because sometimes it seems they think I am leaning toward Islam perhaps because I tell them I have a positive view of Islam and Ramadan for example…

 

[John_Yurich_USA]

Christ said love your neighbor, and love your enemy…this is the Christian religion… Knowing this how can I deal with a Muslim who everyday almost is asking me to convert to Islam or saying have you taken your shahada?

I do know that a # of Jewish and Roman folks vehemently opposed Jesus and would refuse the message of our Lord… now I compare this to perhaps how Muhammad was indeed rejected vehemently by some Jews, Christians, and Polytheist Arabs…so I can understand how some Christians and Muslims would want the whole world to be Christian or Islamic…but with that said how do we build bridges…should all Christians want the whole world to be Christian, should all Muslims want the whole world to be Islamic?

I told my Muslim friends that always ask me to convert that God willing I would rather die 1,000 brutal deaths then give up on our Lord and Savior Jesus. I said hey we can learn from each others religions but we dont have to convert each other. I will say I refuse under any circumstance to criticise any religion on earth, Jesus preached to be nice to others, to stand up to bullies and to look out for the oppressed. I refuse to give up my Christian religion.

Where there is a will there is a way…any tips would be appreciated on how I can deal with these few proselytizing Muslims in the proper and pleasant Christian manner.

State that the god of Islam is in reality Satan and that Mohammad was a dog and a paedophile and that the Koran is totally satanic and is only useful as toilet paper and that Jesus is God and the only way of gaining entrance into Heaven.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t have any advice to add here, I just wanted to say thank you HolyCrusader007 for working so hard to build a bridge with these Muslims instead of a barrier.

Some of the stuff posted on CAF about Muslims just makes me sad.

 

[John_Yurich_USA]

I don’t have any advice to add here, I just wanted to say thank you HolyCrusader007 for working so hard to build a bridge with these Muslims instead of a barrier.

Some of the stuff posted on CAF about Muslims just makes me sad.

All Muslims are totally evil and have Satan as their god if they don’t worship Jesus as God.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Good point,

As for the 2nd point the man was basically saying that unmarried men might talk to a uncovered woman(perhaps get her number or ask her on a date) before talking to a woman whom is covered totally(except for her eyes) He was trying to say its a good thing that some Muslim women cover completely to which I disagree with and can cite Islamic proof to back me up.

Not true at all. It’s completely cultural. I’ve seen beautiful women who cover their heads, and no one would bat an eye at asking them out, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim. I wouldn’t ever approach a half or fully naked woman on the street, thinking she might be a prostitute or mentally ill.

Undoubtedly though the one guy will ask me again with a smile on his face… hey have you taken your shahada…at this point anytime this type of convert point is brought up I will respond with a smile on my face, saying have you been baptized yet brother?

Funny thing, that word SHADADA. It’s not even originally Arabic, it’s borrowed from Syriac, because of the Syriac Christian influence from Mohammad’s uncle. In Syriac, Sahada/Sahodo means witness, as well as MARTYR. is in Syriac St. George the Martyr**Mor Gewargis Sahado. Next time your Muslim friend asks you to be a martyr/witness for Islam, tell him you’ve already died at baptism for Christ.

 

[fnr]

State that the god of Islam is in reality Satan and that Mohammad was a dog and a paedophile and that the Koran is totally satanic …

These assertions (redacted to focus on the issues) are contrary to the Catholic Magesterium.
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/interreligious/islam/vatican-council-and-papal-statements-on-islam.cfm

 

[fnr]

If you have other Quran quotes that I can use to show Muslims that the Quran accepts Christianity(which other Muslims have told me, one Muslim told me he views Jesus as the Son of God) well that would be a thing of beauty.

I will not say that the Quran as a whole accepts Christianity as we understand it. It actually says things like, “Exalted is He [God] above having a Son.” (Sura 4:171). That said, there are verses that support Jesus’ importance as a prophet and messiah. Mary is the only woman mentioned in the Quran – two entire suras (3 and 19) are about her.

There are obvious misunderstandings of Christian teaching (e.g., the doctrine of the trinity), which may be a result of Christian heretical sects being present around the region (e.g., tritheists against whom Jacob Barradeus sent missionaries may reflect the “say not ‘three’” in Sura 4:171 – the Arabic word used there is for “three” not, “trinity,” for example).

The correlation between many of its stories and those found in other sources available in the region from a narration-critical perspective suggests its reliance on written and oral materials that preceded the Quran (and establishment of Arabic as a written language, btw). I believe that the Quran is a pastiche assembled from various regional religious texts, including a Christian lectionary, Jewish rabbinical writings, and local stories (e.g., the story of the collapse of the Marib Dam in Yemen, which spread refugees throughout the region). Here’s an example of a narrative borrowed from the Jewish rabbinical document, the Mishnah, with the comparison between Surah 5:32 and the Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5:
Quran: Because of that We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person not in retaliation or/and to spread corruption in the land
Mishnah: Therefore a single man was created in the world, to teach that if any man has caused a single soul to parish from Israel
Quran: It would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind
Mishnah: Scripture imputes it to him as though he had caused a whole world to perish, and if any man saves alive a single soul from Israel, scripture imputes it to him as though he had saved the whole world.
Clearly, the authors of the Quran have edited out “Children of Israel” to make the message more universal, but the textual source is pretty clear.

Its total lack of coherent organization of its suras (which are simply organized by length), and leaping from story to story within each sura suggest that the original sources have been assembled from a wide variety of contributors.