How to talk with Muslims whom want to convert me to Islam

[HolyCrusader007]

I don’t have any advice to add here, I just wanted to say thank you HolyCrusader007 for working so hard to build a bridge with these Muslims instead of a barrier.

Some of the stuff posted on CAF about Muslims just makes me sad.

That means the world to me. God bless you and God bless all those who fight against Satanic bigotry whether anti Muslim or anti Christian.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

I will not say that the Quran as a whole accepts Christianity as we understand it. It actually says things like, “Exalted is He [God] above having a Son.” (Sura 4:171). That said, there are verses that support Jesus’ importance as a prophet and messiah. Mary is the only woman mentioned in the Quran – two entire suras (3 and 19) are about her.

There are obvious misunderstandings of Christian teaching (e.g., the doctrine of the trinity), which may be a result of Christian heretical sects being present around the region (e.g., tritheists against whom Jacob Barradeus sent missionaries may reflect the “say not ‘three’” in Sura 4:171 – the Arabic word used there is for “three” not, “trinity,” for example).

The correlation between many of its stories and those found in other sources available in the region from a narration-critical perspective suggests its reliance on written and oral materials that preceded the Quran (and establishment of Arabic as a written language, btw). I believe that the Quran is a pastiche assembled from various regional religious texts, including a Christian lectionary, Jewish rabbinical writings, and local stories (e.g., the story of the collapse of the Marib Dam in Yemen, which spread refugees throughout the region). Here’s an example of a narrative borrowed from the Jewish rabbinical document, the Mishnah, with the comparison between Surah 5:32 and the Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5:
Quran: Because of that We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person not in retaliation or/and to spread corruption in the land
Mishnah: Therefore a single man was created in the world, to teach that if any man has caused a single soul to parish from Israel
Quran: It would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind
Mishnah: Scripture imputes it to him as though he had caused a whole world to perish, and if any man saves alive a single soul from Israel, scripture imputes it to him as though he had saved the whole world.
Clearly, the authors of the Quran have edited out “Children of Israel” to make the message more universal, but the textual source is pretty clear.

Its total lack of coherent organization of its suras (which are simply organized by length), and leaping from story to story within each sura suggest that the original sources have been assembled from a wide variety of contributors.

Interesting… Fwiw I know of a Saudi Imam who says that the Quran demands Israel to be a Jewish state… I cant see Islam as being a religion of intolerance based on this and so many other aspects.

 

[Kielbasi]

I do know that a # of Jewish and Roman folks vehemently opposed Jesus and would refuse the message of our Lord… now I compare this to perhaps how Muhammad was indeed rejected vehemently by some Jews, Christians, and Polytheist Arabs…

All new religions are rejected by the existing faiths, that isn’t a “proof” for Christianity and certainly isn’t true for Muhammed, or for that matter the founders of the modern islamic denominations that differ somewhat from “standard” islam who were rejected by establishment imams- men like Elijah Muhammed and Clarence 13x.

Be polite but firm that you wouldn’t think about adopting their false religion in a million years.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Not true at all. It’s completely cultural. I’ve seen beautiful women who cover their heads, and no one would bat an eye at asking them out, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim. I wouldn’t ever approach a half or fully naked woman on the street, thinking she might be a prostitute or mentally ill.

Funny thing, that word SHADADA. It’s not even originally Arabic, it’s borrowed from Syriac, because of the Syriac Christian influence from Mohammad’s uncle. In Syriac, Sahada/Sahodo means witness, as well as MARTYR. St. George the Martyr is in Syriac Mor Gewargis Sahado. Next time your Muslim friend asks you to be a martyr/witness for Islam, tell him you’ve already died at baptism for Christ.

Great advice Ill use it.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

All new religions are rejected by the existing faiths, that isn’t a “proof” for Christianity and certainly isn’t true for Muhammed, or for that matter the founders of the modern islamic denominations that differ somewhat from “standard” islam who were rejected by establishment imams- men like Elijah Muhammed and Clarence 13x.

Be polite but firm that you wouldn’t think about adopting their false religion in a million years.

I have been trying to tell them that though I do believe their is truth in religions other then Christianity. Thanks alot my friend for the advice.

 

[ChineseCatholic]

I have been trying to tell them that though I do believe their is truth in religions other then Christianity. Thanks alot my friend for the advice.

Holy Mother Church does not deny this…although there is a certain proportion of the laity may feel otherwise.

Our Pope Emeritus actually wrote a book on the subject…

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TQE21K70L.SX310_BO1,204,203,200.jpg

Taking inspiration or acknowledging the truth in other people’s belief systems dates all the way back to the time of the Fathers. Clement of Alexandria could make the statement that:

“Philosophy has been given to the Greeks as their own kind of Covenant, their foundation for the philosophy of Christ… the philosophy of the Greeks… contains the basic elements of that genuine and perfect knowledge which is higher than human… even upon those spiritual objects.”

St. Augustine also wrote in his Confessions that:

But when I read those books of the Platonists I was taught by them to seek incorporeal truth, so I saw your ‘invisible things, understood by the things that are made’

Our position has always been that Holy Mother Church simply enjoys the advantage of having a fuller understanding of God’s Divine Love. This isn’t to say we understand God completely…no one can really.

In fact, as Augustine has proven, studying other people’s philosophies and faith systems can lead one to Christ or strengthen conviction in the faith.

 

[The_Old_Maid]

Dear Original Poster,

With deepest respect to my brother/sister in Christ …

The reason you are being solicited to convert is because you are a “soft target” and look ripe for conversion. Your friends and colleagues are having a larger impact on you than you realize.

• You have said you are willing to state a variant on the shahada. Semantics are trouble. Be advised that if a person speaks the shahada twice in the presence of others, that person is considered a convert. Therefore, if you do not intend to convert, you shouldn’t be trifling with any version of the membership pledge. Any variation you try to introduce could be dismissed as a translation issue – that you did the best you could but that you really meant it, else why would you say it?
• You may have noticed that your friends and colleagues acknowledge Jesus as son of Mary and that Mary was a virgin. This is true, BTW. If God could create Adam from the earth, then could create Eve from Adam’s body, then it isn’t difficult for God to take Mary and, without the aid of a man, make another man. But there is a BIG difference between believing that Jesus was born of a virgin versus believing that God is the Father of Jesus.
• You have said your friends and colleagues acknowledge Jesus as a son of God. This is true. [rul=[URL]https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=%22children+of+god%22]But[/URL] so are all who believe in Christ. Calling Jesus “a” son of God is NOT the same as saying that Jesus is the Incarnation of God.
• You are willing to let others define what “Messiah” means to you. There is some song called “The Pirates Who Don’t Do Anything.” Well, we could be looking at the Messiah who doesn’t do anything.
  1. It is said that Jesus is not the Incarnation of God.
  2. It is said that Jesus did not die on the Cross. Instead, God put Judas Iscariot onthe cross. Jesus and Mary were rescued and lived out their lives in peace in a far country.
  3. Jesus did not rise again, neither revivified nor resurrected.
  4. It is said that when Jesus returns, it will be in the company of Muhammad. It is said that Jesus will point to him and say people should listen to him.
  5. It is said that part of Jesus’ job in the new creation will be to punish anyone who worshipped Him, since they set Him up as a false god.
  6. But if Christ did not die for us, we are still in our sins. If Christ is not resurrected, then we won’t be either. And all who have fallen asleep in trust are utterly perished. (1 Cor 15)
  7. You have said that you are willing “to accept that Allah=Jesus.” There are books with the following title, as well as a tie-in article from Christianity Today that ask this question: “Is the God of Muhammad the Father of Jesus?” You probably should look at them.
  8. This also is a quote, and you should look it up: God forbid that God should have a Son.
  Dear friend, it is commendable that you are able to talk peaceably with your friends and colleagues. But I have to tell you, it looks like they’re having some impact on you, and you are having rather little on them.
  
  You have very soft boundaries. I would suggest that you print out this thread and take it to your spiritual director for prayerful consideration. Do keep talking with your friends, but decide what you believe.
  
  But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. (1 Peter 3:15)

 

[The_Old_Maid]

Please forgive the broken link. Verses calling all believers sons of God.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Holy Mother Church does not deny this…although there is a certain proportion of the laity may feel otherwise.

Our Pope Emeritus actually wrote a book on the subject…

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51TQE21K70L.SX310_BO1,204,203,200.jpg

Taking inspiration or acknowledging the truth in other people’s belief systems dates all the way back to the time of the Fathers. Clement of Alexandria could make the statement that:

St. Augustine also wrote in his Confessions that:

Our position has always been that Holy Mother Church simply enjoys the advantage of having a fuller understanding of God’s Divine Love. This isn’t to say we understand God completely…no one can really.

In fact, as Augustine has proven, studying other people’s philosophies and faith systems can lead one to Christ or strengthen conviction in the faith.

That is beautiful…thank you so much my Chinese Catholic brother. May Jeusus shine his light on you and all in our world.

Thanks to all for the advice. Today was a pretty laid back day I did not talk with the few Muslim guys about religion just said hello to them in passing.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Dear Original Poster,

With deepest respect to my brother/sister in Christ …

The reason you are being solicited to convert is because you are a “soft target” and look ripe for conversion. Your friends and colleagues are having a larger impact on you than you realize.

• You have said you are willing to state a variant on the shahada. Semantics are trouble. Be advised that if a person speaks the shahada twice in the presence of others, that person is considered a convert. Therefore, if you do not intend to convert, you shouldn’t be trifling with any version of the membership pledge. Any variation you try to introduce could be dismissed as a translation issue – that you did the best you could but that you really meant it, else why would you say it?
• You may have noticed that your friends and colleagues acknowledge Jesus as son of Mary and that Mary was a virgin. This is true, BTW. If God could create Adam from the earth, then could create Eve from Adam’s body, then it isn’t difficult for God to take Mary and, without the aid of a man, make another man. But there is a BIG difference between believing that Jesus was born of a virgin versus believing that God is the Father of Jesus.
• You have said your friends and colleagues acknowledge Jesus as a son of God. This is true. [rul=[URL]https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=%22children+of+god%22]But[/URL] so are all who believe in Christ

. Calling Jesus “a” son of God is NOT the same as saying that Jesus is the Incarnation of God.

• You are willing to let others define what “Messiah” means to you. There is some song called “The Pirates Who Don’t Do Anything.” Well, we could be looking at the Messiah who doesn’t do anything.
  1. It is said that Jesus is not the Incarnation of God.
  2. It is said that Jesus did not die on the Cross. Instead, God put Judas Iscariot onthe cross. Jesus and Mary were rescued and lived out their lives in peace in a far country.
  3. Jesus did not rise again, neither revivified nor resurrected.
  4. It is said that when Jesus returns, it will be in the company of Muhammad. It is said that Jesus will point to him and say people should listen to him.
  5. It is said that part of Jesus’ job in the new creation will be to punish anyone who worshipped Him, since they set Him up as a false god.
  6. But if Christ did not die for us, we are still in our sins. If Christ is not resurrected, then we won’t be either. And all who have fallen asleep in trust are utterly perished. (1 Cor 15)
  7. You have said that you are willing “to accept that Allah=Jesus.” There are books with the following title, as well as a tie-in article from Christianity Today that ask this question: “Is the God of Muhammad the Father of Jesus?” You probably should look at them.
  8. This also is a quote, and you should look it up: God forbid that God should have a Son.
  Dear friend, it is commendable that you are able to talk peaceably with your friends and colleagues. But I have to tell you, it looks like they’re having some impact on you, and you are having rather little on them.
  
  You have very soft boundaries. I would suggest that you print out this thread and take it to your spiritual director for prayerful consideration. Do keep talking with your friends, but decide what you believe.
  
  But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. (1 Peter 3:15)
  
  Excellent advice… Yes some Muslims have basically asked me to recite the shahada in some forum… but always in my heart I am a Christian and always my intention is to let the Muslims know I am Christian…I will bring up your points to these few Muslims who have tried continuously to convert me. Thank you so much friend , God bless you.

 

[ChineseCatholic]

That is beautiful…thank you so much my Chinese Catholic brother. May Jeusus shine his light on you and all in our world.

Thanks to all for the advice. Today was a pretty laid back day I did not talk with the few Muslim guys about religion just said hello to them in passing.

There’s always been a segment of the Church that gets weirded out when dialoguing with people of other faiths.

There’s also the other end of that spectrum, where you wonder why the person bothers to call themselves a Christian in the first place when they start accepting too many odd ideas that strike at the image of our Savior.

Pope Benedict has referred to these two tendencies as the “Exclusivist” and “Relativist” outlook.

Holy Mother Church is “Inclusivist.” While we are **certain **about the Truth of our Faith, but that doesn’t mean anyone outside its boundaries are just completely and totally lost.

Its not like every Non-Catholic is pillaging and murdering as we speak.

As St. Thomas Aquinas teaches, there is Natural Law, a law written in the hearts of men, and a tendency toward seeking God even though we are weighed down by our disordered passions.

I’m sure there are some people who fear that your continuous exposure to this rather hard-sell sort of Islam is somehow erroding your faith in Christ.

As i said before - every encounter with another faith is a chance to deepen the understanding and love of your own.