How to worship in a different sui iuris Church

[MorEphrem]

So I’ve heard differing opinions on this.

When one visits a particular Church different from their own patrimony do they conform to the standard of worship of the Church or do what is habitual to them?

Example 1: signing - Syriacs sign left to right with three fingers; if I visit a Melkite church do I then sign myself from right to left?

Example 2: kneeling/standing - kneeling is aliturgical except for rare instances and the proper way for us to reverence in the liturgy is to remain standing; if I attend a Latin mass do I kneel or can I remain standing? (I ask this in particular because I’ve stood in the back of a Latin mass before and have been scolded for being a “distraction” but when Latins visit our church they kneel).

Example 3: reception of communion - I am accustomed to receiving on the tongue; if I attend a NO parish in which people would be scandalized to receive on the tongue (it has happened) do I receive in the hand to my own feeling of irreverence to avoid scandal or receive in the mouth?

I’m sure other examples can be thought of but I’m sure the three above illustrate clearly my question. Thank you for your responses in advance.

 

[rciadan]

I do not think that which way you do the sign of the cross is really going to matter, but, the rest should be done according to the form of the Liturgy you worship in. All churches within the 23 Catholic churches are bound to allow you to receive communion, but it will take place according to the Liturgical norm of the Rite being used. Here is a good resource to look at;
stsophiaukrainian.cc/resources/traveling/
While it directly references Eastern Catholics at a Latin Mass, I think the general norm of going by the rubrics of the Rite you are celebrating in is good for any Church you celebrate in.

 

[UncleBill]

When in Rome do as the Romans! I would not hesitate to receive communion on the tongue…it if the Latin tradition even if folks don’t like it.

 

[ronyodish]

MorEphrem,

Whenever I celebrate the liturgies of those Churches that are not of my own tradition, I usually do so according to the proper traditions of those Churches. Even though as a Catholic, I am at “home” in any Catholic parish of whatever tradition in the world, I still would see myself as a “guest” to those parishes not of my own tradition, and therefore as a guest, I would conform myself to the proper traditions of the hosts of those parishes.

So, for example, when I’m at a Roman liturgy, I will recite the Filioque, but when I’m at a Byzantine liturgy, I will not recite the Filioque.

I think a really challenging question or situation, which I sometimes encounter, is this: What if the parish is not celebrating the liturgy according to their own proper traditions? What am I, as a guest, supposed to do in those situations?

Here is an example: If my understanding is correct, the proper Byzantine tradition is to stand during the consecration. Well, I once visited this one Melkite parish, and during the consecration, I noticed that everyone knelt, except for one guy. So, I was perplexed, but decided to remain standing, though I felt awkward, because I really stood out, along with that other guy. So, these situations are more difficult to decide on, at least for me.

God bless,

Rony

 

[CDB1718]

MorEphrem,

Whenever I celebrate the liturgies of those Churches that are not of my own tradition, I usually do so according to the proper traditions of those Churches. Even though as a Catholic, I am at “home” in any Catholic parish of whatever tradition in the world, I still would see myself as a “guest” to those parishes not of my own tradition, and therefore as a guest, I would conform myself to the proper traditions of the hosts of those parishes.

So, for example, when I’m at a Roman liturgy, I will recite the Filioque, but when I’m at a Byzantine liturgy, I will not recite the Filioque.

I think a really challenging question or situation, which I sometimes encounter, is this: What if the parish is not celebrating the liturgy according to their own proper traditions? What am I, as a guest, supposed to do in those situations?

Here is an example: If my understanding is correct, the proper Byzantine tradition is to stand during the consecration. Well, I once visited this one Melkite parish, and during the consecration, I noticed that everyone knelt, except for one guy. So, I was perplexed, but decided to remain standing, though I felt awkward, because I really stood out, along with that other guy. So, these situations are more difficult to decide on, at least for me.

God bless,

Rony

I once read an Orthodox parish page discussing that point. It said if you’re new to a parish to do what the parish matriarch or patriarch does as a sign of humility. It said it didn’t matter if the posture was liturgically proper that God would bless your inner disposition as he preferred a humble heart over a person standing or kneeling. I’ve taken that as my guidance since.

If it appears that there’s freedom, I go with my conscience. The Roman Mass allows faithful to sit, stand, or kneel after returning to the pew after Communion. It doesn’t instruct on the direction the Sign of the Cross is to be made.

If it doesn’t appear that there’s freedom, like everyone in a Maronite congregation kneeling or the kneeling mandated in the Roman Mass during the consecration, I submit in humility to the parish custom and/or rubrics. The only thing that would really give me pause now would be outright heresy or its equal.

 

[5Loaves]

I’m nearly never in a Sunday Roman Rite Mass, but am often in daily Mass. The numbers are fairly small in daily Mass. I tend to sit near the back, tho in the local parish nearly all the daily folks know me and wouldn’t be bother by me doing what I do.

I cross myself and bow as we do in my Russian Church, at the name of the Holy Trinity, and the Mother of God, and when there is a petition which is of special meaning to me. In most Latin Churches people are crossing themselves at all sorts of times during Mass, at least if you live where there are folks from cultures where more frequent crossing is common, as we have around here.

At the Dominican Priory where I also often am, they chant the Hours with the traditional bowed down “Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit” which I always cross myself for. Everyone in bowed down so I don’t know who would see it, but again, that place people pretty much all know each other and know I’m EC or just don’t mind. There’s not the liturgical police mentality there or my local Latin parish. The Melkite Liturgy was celebrated there for years and a number of those folks (Latin Church) remained there after the Melkite Liturgy ceased being offered.

The Creed is rare in daily Mass, but if it’s professed I don’t speak the Filioque. I do kneel and sit with the others when the Roman Rite calls for kneeling and sitting. Kneeling and sitting seem the most obvious differences which would be very noticeable, and seem inappropriate to not follow what the Roman Rite specifies.

After saying “Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof…” I also whisper or say silently the Prayers before Communion that we use in the East on my way to receive.

I always receive on the tongue and have never had any priest or EMHC give me trouble about it.

 

[rciadan]

When in Rome do as the Romans! I would not hesitate to receive communion on the tongue…it if the Latin tradition even if folks don’t like it.

Amen! I always receive on the tongue, and take great pains to be sure to receive from the priest when in a Roman parish.

 

[malphono]

So I’ve heard differing opinions on this.

When one visits a particular Church different from their own patrimony do they conform to the standard of worship of the Church or do what is habitual to them?

In general, I say yes to the former, but see below.

Example 1: signing - Syriacs sign left to right with three fingers; if I visit a Melkite church do I then sign myself from right to left?

This is a little complicated, mainly because we do the Sign so frequently. If one is comfortable with the “Greek style” then by all means do it. But I know from my own experience that even when my intent has been to follow the “local custom” I slip back into habit and do it the way I’m accustomed to doing it.

Example 2: kneeling/standing - kneeling is aliturgical except for rare instances and the proper way for us to reverence in the liturgy is to remain standing; if I attend a Latin mass do I kneel or can I remain standing? (I ask this in particular because I’ve stood in the back of a Latin mass before and have been scolded for being a “distraction” but when Latins visit our church they kneel).

In this case it’s best, I think, to follow the local custom. Particularly in the Usus Antiquior. For example, I recall when I was in Milan and attended the Rito Ambrosiano Tradizzionale there was one fellow who was obviously a Byzantine (he made the minor prostration on entrance, Signed himself “Greek style” etc), but even he knelt when the congregation knelt. He seemed to very familiar with the Rito Ambrosiano (even responses, singing etc) so I have to assume he wasn’t a first time visitor.

Example 3: reception of communion - I am accustomed to receiving on the tongue; if I attend a NO parish in which people would be scandalized to receive on the tongue (it has happened) do I receive in the hand to my own feeling of irreverence to avoid scandal or receive in the mouth?

In the Latin Church, it is always acceptable – even in the Novus Ordo – to receive on the tongue, local custom in a particular church or even diocese notwithstanding. By law, a communicant cannot be denied the Eucharist on the tongue.

From Redemptionis Sacramentum (emphasis added)

[92.] Although each of the faithful always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice,[178] if any communicant should wish to receive the Sacrament in the hand, in areas where the Bishops’ Conference with the recognitio of the Apostolic See has given permission, the sacred host is to be administered to him or her.

 

[Domnall]

MorEphrem,

Here is an example: If my understanding is correct, the proper Byzantine tradition is to stand during the consecration. Well, I once visited this one Melkite parish, and during the consecration, I noticed that everyone knelt, except for one guy. So, I was perplexed, but decided to remain standing, though I felt awkward, because I really stood out, along with that other guy. So, these situations are more difficult to decide on, at least for me.

Rony

I frequent a very tiny (read under 10 parishioners) Ukrainian Catholic church where all the elderly Ukrainians kneel for the consecration. I, however, continue to stand. I’ve never had anyone say anything to me and I don’t think any of them even really mind.

 

[Peter_J]

At my own (Melkite) parish I never kneel – nor do most of the people there – but I don’t have any problem kneeling if/when I attend a RR mass.

OTOH, I’m reminded of a time, a few years ago, when I was at a RR mass and everyone sat during the consecration. Not that it was a weird or liberal parish mind you; the floor was very hard and there were no kneelers, and I guess the mentality is during-consecration-you-either-kneel-or-sit. I was literally the only person besides the priest who was standing, which definitely made me uncomfortable.

 

[nschmitz10]

Even though I’m Roman Catholic, I sometimes cross myself right to left. I also don’t say the Filioque at Ukrainian Catholic Divine Liturgy.