How True Muslims are supposed to treat Christians

[jakasaki]

I am a managing attorney in a firm owned and run by Muslims. So, I deal with them daily, and have had many clients who are Muslim. It was one of the partners who gave me this link. He is the same one who has told me that true Muslims are peaceful, but the press only shows us the radicals…and the radicals are the worst.

They have done nothing but be good people who are very peaceful.

As to its accuracy? He says it is accurate. I do not know.

But I have read the Koran and “people of the Book” are mentioned frequently.

Read the history of the article ~

There is NO original - the one St Catherine has is from the 1500’s

Which again begs the question - who’s hand print is on the document.

And what about the hadith & Quran I posted…

It contradicts the declaration posted within this thread.

I can post more animosities from the Quran against “the people of the book”

TK ~

You are smart enough and educated against the BOM - (et al regarding LDS) and I admire for your contributions towards them…

But if you want to tackle Islam, be prepared for rebuttals to your thread.

 

[KrazyKat]

The Church doesn’t have any mention of Mohammed but does know Muslims do worship God.

What is true fasting to you?

In Islam the fasting is a law isn’t it?

MJ

Don’t know if fasting is any more the law in Islam than it is law for Catholic’s at set times. I do know they do not eat! They do not nibble, they have water. They do not pamper themselves with smaller meals and call it fasting or sacrifice. This I personally view as fasting.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Don’t know if fasting is any more the law in Islam than it is law for Catholic’s at set times. I do know they do not eat! They do not nibble, they have water. They do not pamper themselves with smaller meals and call it fasting or sacrifice. This I personally view as fasting.

It’s common in my island home, many Catholics in my hometown and my mum’s Marian group do that. My Samoan, Fijian and Tongan Catholic friends and their families also do this.

They only drink water. They fast every Wednesday and Friday during Lent and the month leading up to Dec25. They also fast for a period of time set by the individual when they are sacrificing for a Petition e.g. upcoming medical procedure and most recently the Papal elections etc.

Maybe this type of fasting is peculiar to Catholics in the South Pacific.

I try but usually end up nibbling on bread.

 

[KrazyKat]

Yes, maybe the same one who knows? There are thousands of Fallen Angels seeking man’s ruination, which is why we rely on the Church to approve apparitions.

There are some who claim the CC started Islam. Islam began 500years after Our Lord was crucified and resurrected when Mohammed starting receiving visits from an Angel.

The Angel made revelations which were used in creating this new religion. Mohammed taught that only Mary and Jesus were not touched by the Devil upon their birth. He followed Jesus and yet taught in contradiction to Jesus as to the nature of the Father. Muhammad wrote: “And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.” (Maryam 19:92)

The Koran makes God out to be an imperfect creature, that God cannot be good, only great. Good and great are seldom the same thing. The Koran also continues to make allegations that have no historical backing at all such as Abraham going to Saudi Arabia to nearly sacrifice his son Ishmael, instead of Israel.

Islam does not teach that Jesus is God. It believes the Trinity to be false.

These contradictions tell me something about the Angel that visited Mohammed.

The Koran contains some beautiful texts as do Hindu and Buddhist texts. There is some beauty contained in most religions.

There is only one Truth. For me it’s Catholicism, for a Muslim its Islam, for a Buddhist its Buddhism etc etc

It doesn’t mean individual practitioners of any of the faiths I mentioned are not decent, peace loving people who are actually living their lives according to the Gospel. Or that they will not go to Heaven, that is for God to decide.

Thank you for this information, explains a lot. Another religion that does not believe in Jesus, the only begotten son of God, but they love God.

 

[KrazyKat]

It’s common in my island home, many Catholics in my hometown and my mum’s Marian group do that. My Samoan, Fijian and Tongan Catholic friends and their families also do this.

They only drink water. They fast every Wednesday and Friday during Lent and the month leading up to Dec25. They also fast for a period of time set by the individual when they are sacrificing for a Petition e.g. upcoming medical procedure and most recently the Papal elections etc.

Maybe this type of fasting is peculiar to Catholics in the South Pacific.

I try but usually end up nibbling on bread.

Praise be to God. I shout with joy for the people you mention !

 

[jakasaki]

Can you please address the thread… and NOT derail it.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Can you please address the thread… and NOT derail it.

I already addressed the thread.

 

[LoveGod102]

Yes, maybe the same one who knows? There are thousands of Fallen Angels seeking man’s ruination, which is why we rely on the Church to approve apparitions.

There are some who claim the CC started Islam. Islam began 500years after Our Lord was crucified and resurrected when Mohammed starting receiving visits from an Angel.

The Angel made revelations which were used in creating this new religion. Mohammed taught that only Mary and Jesus were not touched by the Devil upon their birth. He followed Jesus and yet taught in contradiction to Jesus as to the nature of the Father. Muhammad wrote: “And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.” (Maryam 19:92)

The Koran makes God out to be an imperfect creature, that God cannot be good, only great. Good and great are seldom the same thing. The Koran also continues to make allegations that have no historical backing at all such as Abraham going to Saudi Arabia to nearly sacrifice his son Ishmael, instead of Israel.

Islam does not teach that Jesus is God. It believes the Trinity to be false.

These contradictions tell me something about the Angel that visited Mohammed.

The Koran contains some beautiful texts as do Hindu and Buddhist texts. There is some beauty contained in most religions.

***There is only one Truth. For me it’s Catholicism, for a Muslim its Islam, for a Buddhist its Buddhism etc etc

---

It doesn’t mean individual practitioners of any of the faiths I mentioned are not decent, peace loving people who are actually living their lives according to the Gospel. Or that they will not go to Heaven, that is for God to decide.

There is as you said, only ONE truth, and that truth is Jesus Christ. That truth is the same for everyone, is does not vary be religion. While people may have varying beliefs, and most (if not all) religions have some truth, and only the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. The truth is the same for Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists ET, even though many do not know and/or believe the whole truth.

 

[TheSufi]

ijtihad.org/Prophet%20Muhammed’s%20Promise.htm

I found this very interesting. We have a jaundiced view of Muslims because of the radicals who cause so much pain. This article is about a letter written by Mohammed as instructions on how to treat Christians, and how he protected a Monastery…

Most people are ignorant of this one fact. Europeans are really responsible for most if not all terrorist or radical Muslims in this day and time. They were created by colonization. They created protestant Islam, we have a Catholic/Orthodox Islam, which is built not just on the Quran and Hadith but also tradition, which have become known as traditional Sunni Islam. We have a tradition which has been handed down from Shaykh to Shaykh which extended back to Prophet Muhammad, an unbroken chain.

When Europe sought to control the Muslims, they realize in order to do so effectively, they would have to kill the Muslim scholars. And destroyed their endowments, which they used to educate Muslims and teach and properly train Islamic scholars. Without properly trained scholars, this would breed ignorant Muslims, muslims who were ignorant of their tradition. So they began to read the Quran and Hadith without proper training, one such ignorant Muslim leader was Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, who is the founder of Wahabism, modern saudi Islam, the root of terrorist Islam by such people as Osama Bin Laden and Anwar Awlaki etc. These people started reading the Quran and hadith without proper training and started justifying, killing innocent women and children, something Prophet Muhammad was completely against. As well as many other unsound edicts of violence and ignorance…

Another aspect that has allowed Protestant Islam (ie Wahabism) to spread world wide, is Saudi Oil. So Europe (their colonization) is largely responsible for the terrorism you see coming out of Islam. There was a time, in America, when it was largely influenced by Saudi Islam (Wahabism). there was a time, you could hardly find a mosque that wasn’t influenced by them because of Saudi Oil. Traditional Sunni Islam (Orthodox Islam) is growing, all praise is due to God. But slowly. And I hope one day that we will be able to take control of Islam again. In America, the growth of traditional Sunni Islam was largely campaigned by the founder of Zaytuna College, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. He and others at Zaytuna are trying to bring back that positive face of Islam again. He was Christian at one time, his mother is Orthodox Christian and his father is Catholic. He has mentioned many times, that Orthodox/Catholic Christian is the best form of Christianity, because of its tradition, and long intellectual tradition and unbroken chain back to the early church.

And God knows best.

 

[eamonnroma]

Oic thanks.

Btw doesn’t the monastery presently still have an extensive library of original Christian writings/documents?

MJ

I think that St Catherine’s Monastery in Sinai is one of the most sacred places for Christians.

 

[Augustine3]

I don’t buy into that “we Muslims are peaceful and tolerant toward non-Muslims”. We Christians will always live as a second class community under the Islamic regime.

Furthmore Christians and Jews are used as scapegoats for the Muslims as it is written in the authentic hadiths below:

Sahih Muslim 6665—Abu Musa reported that Allah’s Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire

Sahih Muslim 6668—Allah’s Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians

And Lastly the prophet Muhammad lead war campaigns. Did Jesus lead war campaigns? Muhammad approved the beheading of his enemies. I’m sure if Muhammad were alive today he would be smiling at the beheading of a Catholic Priest and two others below.

WARNING this video is extremely graphic and explicit.

liveleak.com/view?i=ead_1372329728

 

[Augustine3]

I don’t buy into that “we Muslims are peaceful and tolerant toward non-Muslims”. We Christians will always live as a second class community under the Islamic regime.

Furthmore Christians and Jews are used as scapegoats for the Muslims as it is written in the authentic hadiths below:

Sahih Muslim 6665—Abu Musa reported that Allah’s Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire

Sahih Muslim 6668—Allah’s Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians

And Lastly the prophet Muhammad lead war campaigns. Did Jesus lead war campaigns? Muhammad approved the beheading of his enemies. I’m sure if Muhammad were alive today he would be smiling at the beheading of a Catholic Priest and two others below.

WARNING this video is extremely graphic and explicit.

liveleak.com/view?i=ead_1372329728

 

[Augustine3]

I don’t buy into that “we Muslims are peaceful and tolerant toward non-Muslims”. We Christians will always live as a second class community under the Islamic regime.

Furthmore Christians and Jews are used as scapegoats for the Muslims as it is written in the authentic hadiths below:

Sahih Muslim 6665—Abu Musa reported that Allah’s Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire

Sahih Muslim 6668—Allah’s Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians

 

[Michael57]

Most people are ignorant of this one fact. ** Europeans are really responsible for most if not all terrorist or radical Muslims in this day and time. ** They were created by colonization. They created protestant Islam, we have a Catholic/Orthodox Islam, which is built not just on the Quran and Hadith but also tradition, which have become known as traditional Sunni Islam. We have a tradition which has been handed down from Shaykh to Shaykh which extended back to Prophet Muhammad, an unbroken chain.

When Europe sought to control the Muslims, they realize in order to do so effectively, they would have to kill the Muslim scholars. And destroyed their endowments, which they used to educate Muslims and teach and properly train Islamic scholars. Without properly trained scholars, this would breed ignorant Muslims, muslims who were ignorant of their tradition. So they began to read the Quran and Hadith without proper training, one such ignorant Muslim leader was Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, who is the founder of Wahabism, modern saudi Islam, the root of terrorist Islam by such people as Osama Bin Laden and Anwar Awlaki etc. These people started reading the Quran and hadith without proper training and started justifying, killing innocent women and children, something Prophet Muhammad was completely against. As well as many other unsound edicts of violence and ignorance…

Another aspect that has allowed Protestant Islam (ie Wahabism) to spread world wide, is Saudi Oil. So Europe (their colonization) is largely responsible for the terrorism you see coming out of Islam. There was a time, in America, when it was largely influenced by Saudi Islam (Wahabism). there was a time, you could hardly find a mosque that wasn’t influenced by them because of Saudi Oil. Traditional Sunni Islam (Orthodox Islam) is growing, all praise is due to God. But slowly. And** I hope one day that we will be able to take control of Islam again**. In America, the growth of traditional Sunni Islam was largely campaigned by the founder of Zaytuna College, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. He and others at Zaytuna are trying to bring back that positive face of Islam again. He was Christian at one time, his mother is Orthodox Christian and his father is Catholic. He has mentioned many times, that Orthodox/Catholic Christian is the best form of Christianity, because of its tradition, and long intellectual tradition and unbroken chain back to the early church.

And God knows best.

Peace be unto you.

I don’t agree with your “root cause analysis” that Europeans are largely if not completely responsible for modern radicalization in certain followers of Islam.

I believe that there is plenty of evidence that shows there are many more factors/people involved.

What of the Ba’athists who’ve virtually wiped out the intelligentsia in what were once places of education and learning, like Baghdad? Their systematic destruction of higher education, and religious institutional leadership for the sake of their own power and dominance has done more harm to human society there than any European or Western power could to their country. The same could be inferred for Syria. Then there was Nasser in Egypt, the House of Saud, the Turks, and the Persians.

I think that you err in oversimplification. Then there is personal responsibility of the individuals. Earthly men exert their will over others with complete disregard of those with religious belief. It has always been this way in that region, pre-colonial, colonial, or post-colonial. This is inherent to those strong leaders that place the good of the family over the good of the tribe, the good of the tribe over the good of the region, the good of the region over the good of the nation.

Don’t place it all at the feet of Europe. Some perhaps, but not all. What of the suppression of the Sufi? The strife between Sunni and Shia? The Turk versus the Syrian? The Persian versus the Arab? (Rhetorical, you need not answer)

Many forces are at play tearing the region (and religion?) apart in violence and incivility.

That being said, I hope that you, and those like you, can return your brethren to the religion of peace, and not the religion of terrorism and violence: The internal struggle that all who seek God endure versus the external struggle that places one against another.

Inshah Allah

 

[josesiem]

Most people are ignorant of this one fact. Europeans are really responsible for most if not all terrorist or radical Muslims in this day and time. They were created by colonization. They created protestant Islam, we have a Catholic/Orthodox Islam, which is built not just on the Quran and Hadith but also tradition, which have become known as traditional Sunni Islam. We have a tradition which has been handed down from Shaykh to Shaykh which extended back to Prophet Muhammad, an unbroken chain.

When Europe sought to control the Muslims, they realize in order to do so effectively, they would have to kill the Muslim scholars. And destroyed their endowments, which they used to educate Muslims and teach and properly train Islamic scholars. Without properly trained scholars, this would breed ignorant Muslims, muslims who were ignorant of their tradition. So they began to read the Quran and Hadith without proper training, one such ignorant Muslim leader was Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, who is the founder of Wahabism, modern saudi Islam, the root of terrorist Islam by such people as Osama Bin Laden and Anwar Awlaki etc. These people started reading the Quran and hadith without proper training and started justifying, killing innocent women and children, something Prophet Muhammad was completely against. As well as many other unsound edicts of violence and ignorance…

Another aspect that has allowed Protestant Islam (ie Wahabism) to spread world wide, is Saudi Oil. So Europe (their colonization) is largely responsible for the terrorism you see coming out of Islam. There was a time, in America, when it was largely influenced by Saudi Islam (Wahabism). there was a time, you could hardly find a mosque that wasn’t influenced by them because of Saudi Oil. Traditional Sunni Islam (Orthodox Islam) is growing, all praise is due to God. But slowly. And I hope one day that we will be able to take control of Islam again. In America, the growth of traditional Sunni Islam was largely campaigned by the founder of Zaytuna College, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf. He and others at Zaytuna are trying to bring back that positive face of Islam again. He was Christian at one time, his mother is Orthodox Christian and his father is Catholic. He has mentioned many times, that Orthodox/Catholic Christian is the best form of Christianity, because of its tradition, and long intellectual tradition and unbroken chain back to the early church.

And God knows best.

I’ve been studying Islam both academically and on my own for the past 20 years. What you say is utter garbage. White folks created the radicals, huh? That’s funny.

You see, Muhammad created the radicals. Surah 9 is a declaration of war against all non-Muslims. Numerous ahadith support this Surah, and since it’s the last major surah to be revealed, it stands.

Sufi, you know this is true, don’t you? You’re probably a nice white dude who converted to Islam b/c of certain things. But you know deep down that it’s essentially a violent religion. Its aim is to convert the entire world to Islam by force. Do you want supporting ahadith? You know them, don’t you. You may be thinking of certain peaceful ahadith and certain peaceful verses of the Quran, but the major thrust is toward domination of the world. I’m not in the mood to go cutting and pasting, but anyone here can easily find these on the internet.

Islam does not mean peace. It means total submission. Submission to Muhammad. Not submission to Allah, you ask? No, because we only know who Allah is via Muhammad. So, first we need to see what kind of fellow this Muhammad was-- he’s our lone source to know who Allah is.

 

[Mastiff_Eng]

islam is formed on violence, it promotes it, uses violence to spread the religion and offers to all those that practice violence everlasting life.

so those muslims that do not practice violence are not really muslims at all, for the Koran advocates violent acts in over 100 passages and also states that muslims must obey every single passage/verse.

 

[josesiem]

These are all considered to be authentic narrations of Muhammad. Read these and tell me if you want to be a Christian living in a Muslim land.

It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Sahih Muslim 19:4366, See also: Sahih Muslim 19:4367
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it.
Sahih Muslim 26:5389

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

We are told that Muslims will be spared hell-fire by throwing Jews and Christians into hell.

Abu Musa’ reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.
Sahih Muslim 37:6665

Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. 'Umar b. Abd al-'Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him).

Sahih Muslim 37:6666, See also: Sahih Muslim 37:6667
Abu Burda reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.

 

[josesiem]

“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.”
Qur’an 5:73

Anybody know the penalty for blasphemy in a Muslim land? Death! Correct you are. This is why you see Christians being killed in Muslim countries. Based on the Quran and ahadith, they are blasphemers.

“And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?”

Here Allah misunderstands the Trinity!

Qur’an 5:116
“Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.”
Qur’an 9:29

So, fight the Jews and Christians until they submit and become dhimmi. It’s right here in black and white, folks.

“And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One Allah. There is no Allah save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!”
Qur’an 9:30

Yes, how PERVERSE they are.

How many more do you want, Sufi? Because there are HUNDREDS of quotes from primary source material like this.

Peace, indeed.