"How we can experience or hear God" discussion

[Lief_Erikson]

This thread is created with the intention of providing discussion for this thread, which provides a number of ways collected from the users of this forum that we can come to experience God’s presence or hear his voice. By the means posted in that thread and discussed in this, I hope we shall develop the intimacy with our God that proves his existence to us, inspires love for Christ in us, confirms and strengthens our faith, and enables us to feel God’s presence and hear his voice.

The thread I linked is intended to be a collection of available means to that end. We all go through “dry spots.” Sometimes, God allows us to go through difficult or dry spiritual times to train us for the glories of his kingdom. Other times, we are to blame in various ways, but many, many times, we try and try and are listening and seeking God with all our hearts, but we just aren’t hearing, and the explanation is beyond us. And part of the reason is we haven’t been trained in how to listen. I strongly believe that God wants to speak to all of us badly, and believers throughout history, as well as many believers here on this forum, are mature and wise, and have experienced God in remarkable ways in their lives. They have many insights to offer us in how to develop our relationships with God. What is their advice in how we can draw closer to God? Not every way God reaches one person will necessarily work for another person- we are different people, and God reaches different people in different ways. But in the thread I linked, let’s try to collect those ways of coming to experience God, and then let’s discuss them in this thread.

I am no expert- I don’t know if any of us are. But some of us have experienced or heard God in various ways, and sometimes people on this forum have learned lessons in how to experience that which others here could profit from hearing and applying to their own lives. In addition to describing our own ways of coming to hear God or experience him, let’s feel free to write in the linked thread about the ways saints throughout history experienced God, prepared for meditation, etc. Their insights may help us.

The reason I made this discussion thread, rather than allowing the discussion to take place in the linked thread, is that I want people seeking God to be able to just go to that thread and browse through all the methods or ways of hearing God without having to sort through debates or conversations we might have amongst ourselves regarding things that don’t have anything to do with their own spiritual journeys. I want seekers to just have all the ways of hearing God laid out before them as a kind of list, so that they don’t have to sift through loads of posts of conversation.

I can’t guarantee that the means of hearing God posted on the thread I’ve linked will be approved or safe. So if people want to try one of the ways presented in that thread, and aren’t sure, they would do well to enter into our discussion here and read the differing opinions about that technique, so that they know what the different views about it are and can form their own conclusions. If someone starts posting things absolutely outlandish or non-Christian on that thread, I hope a moderator will step in, but as for us, let’s do everything we can to keep our discussions or debates on the validity of or application of those methods to this thread.

May God bless us all . May the discussion begin!

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Very simple - go to your nearest Church during Mass (where you get to both hear God in His word and see Him in the Eucharist) or Adoration where you can see Him in the Blessed Sacrament. Or read the Bible - where again you can hear Him in His word.

If we ignore these means by which He ordinarily makes Himself experienced and heard, how can we hope to gain anything by EXTRAordinary means?

Jesus warned us against seeking after signs and wonders, and it’s a common thread of those saints who received such experiences that they either a) weren’t seeking to do so in the first place or b) found that the physical consolations came and went and that they at least sometimes had ‘dark night of the soul’ and had to learn to have faith in God’s presence IN SPITE OF not feeling that ‘closeness’ or ‘experience’.

I definitely agree with you, Lily, that if we ignore the scripture and Eucharist, it is ridiculous for us to seek extraordinary means. I’m very glad you posted that people should seek God in the Eucharist and Scripture.

I think that also God wants to commune with us throughout the week and during all our activities, rather than only during Bible-reading or Mass. Lots of the saints throughout Christian history engaged in meditation or contemplation, along with devotion to Communion and the Sacred Scripture.

There also are ways of praying or meditating during the week that might bring the Scripture and Eucharist more to life for us when we experience God through them. We don’t want to read the Bible and feel like we’ve read any other book, or eat Eucharist and come back from church feeling no different and no more spiritually centered or blessed than we did when we entered the building. Where I’m coming from is that it’s a good idea for us to explore all the different things God has opened up and made available to us .

 

[Lief_Erikson]

puzzleannie:

there is absolutely no technique, prayer method, secret practice or gimmick that will guarantee an experience of hearing or “feeling” God’s presence through the senses and/or imagination.

I agree, because you use the word “guarantee.” No one can force the Lord to interact with us. He only comes when he chooses.

The Lord can speak to us through our senses or imaginations, however. He can speak to us through almost anything in the world that surrounds us. He can even speak to us through the mouth of a donkey, as he did to Balaam, if he wants to.

puzzleannie:

What there is is the Church, Mass, the Eucharist and the other sacraments, the Word of God spoken in scripture and sacred tradition, and prayer.

Indeed, and prayer involves listening as well as speaking, and the meditative techniques described in the other thread are simply listing some of those ways of listening.

puzzleannie:

These are the gifts Jesus has given for our sanctification. Seeking after subjective experiences of God is futile and ultimately gravely dangerous to spiritual health.

I strongly disagree- desiring spiritual experiences with the Lord is not bad in the least. God wants us all to know him as intimately as possible. As St. Paul says in the Epistles, “eagerly desire the greater [spiritual] gifts.” And the way we can receive those experiences is by listening, by praying that God will open our ears so that we are receptive to his voice, and then by spending time listening. Various meditative techniques, like silence, which GemmaRose mentioned, trying to cultivate a child-like faith, which fhansen mentioned, or imaginative reflection and meditation, like I mentioned, are helpful in opening our ears and focusing our minds, and that restful stillness, “waiting on the Lord,” can help us to pay attention to God’s voice. That is all part of prayer, or can be. And sometimes God doesn’t speak. And it can take time and persistence for us to begin to hear God speaking when we prayerfully practice this meditation.

puzzleannie:

Anyone who professes to teach a guaranteed method to achieve such an experience is a charlatan.

Agreed.

puzzleannie:

Rather spend your time reading the classic Christian spiritual directors who have become saints: Teresa of Jesus, John of the Cross, Ignatius etc.,

Yes, and I would really, really appreciate it if some people would start posting some of their writings about meditation and listening to God on the other thread. I don’t have their writings, but I’d love to have their insights posted on the thread.

puzzleannie:

and turn to regular prayer, reading scripture and most of all Mass and the sacraments. Experience the presence of God in the manner in which HE has guaranteed it, the Eucharist, through faith, not through the senses (read the English words of Aquinas’ great Eucharistic hymns to see what I mean).

God gave us our senses too, and many saints have heard God through them. Who are we to deny the value of listening with them?

Also, seeking God through prayer (which includes meditation and listening), the Eucharist (which we might also benefit from receiving in a listening, receptive and open state), and faith, can result in spiritual experiences of the senses.

dang71:

Lief, thank you very much for starting this thread!

You’re welcome! I hope that a lot of people provide their insights or experiences on this.

dang71:

on a quick side note, many protestants discuss a “personal relationship with Jesus”, and i am wondering if people in Catholic circles would refer to this as “developing a deeper prayer life”?

I wish I could tell you. It sounds likely. Developing a deeper “personal relationship with Jesus,” tends to be done by listening, just as developing a “deeper prayer life,” does.

dang71:

anyway, back on topic, i have heard of different types of meditative prayer (e.g. Teresian prayer, St Ignatius’ spiritual excercises) and was wondering if some posters could give a brief explanation of the types of meditative prayer they are aware of or have tried?

Yes, I’d love it if they’d provide that also. Perhaps we’d have more luck in finding people willing to offer tips if we made an accompanying thread called “Spiritual meditation of the saints,” asking for help in collecting their meditative techniques. The response might be less hostile than that which seems to have greeted my thread, but might accomplish the same goals.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

dang71:

also, what is a rough estimate of amount of time devoted to meditative prayer each day/week?

Erm . . . that depends. You see, as puzzleannie pointed out, no one can “make” God talk to them. Perhaps some of the writings of the saints have tips on this- if so, I’d appreciate hearing them.

I think that the answer is pretty much whatever you want, though. You can give 5 minutes a day, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, two hours, three hours. Whatever you want. John Paul II was a spiritual giant, and he devoted half of his day, every day, to prayer. I’m sure that that included a great deal of meditation and listening.

I’ve heard from a Protestant pastor who had a very committed relationship with the Lord that 10-15 minutes is relatively normal for most people, and his big emphasis was that if you take even a small amount of time and do it consistently for a long, long time, it adds up enormously.

Do what you want, as regards taking time to pray.

The main thing is to be persistent with one’s efforts rather than giving up. Jacob had to physically wrestle with God all night before he got the blessing he desired, in the Old Testament. Seeing as you’ve been seeking a closer personal experience with the Lord for years now, it’s obvious that you are persistent, so that won’t be a problem.

 

[tessi]

In my experience, God first gives you a feeling of very deep wretchedness, and then, besides prayer, the most important thing is self denial. When you exercise yourself in denying you everything, then Jesus comes to fill the hole. However you can not deny yourself if He doen’t give you the will to do it. If you feel strong enough to take that journey (have nothing for yourself), you will feel God very clearly.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

That’s fascinating, tessi. Would you mind submitting that post also in the other thread, “How we can experience or hear God”? I’d love to have it there, so that other people can read it when going through the “list” of ways I’m trying to assemble, to come closer to God.

That is a very interesting post you just made. I haven’t gone that route much myself. It sounds very much like fasting, really. I know that when I’ve fasted, I tend to experience God more, so that’s similar.

 

[tessi]

It’s strange how most people associate self denial with fasting. The lack of food can cause strange things to the mind so you can think you are experiencing God when all you have are some kind of hallucinations. Self denial is about giving your will to God, not only in your body: fasting, not sleeping, bear the cold or the hot weather (things that must be done with extreme prudence), but most important is giving your thoughts and desires. Stop doing everything that somewhat pleases you, even the slightest thought.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The only way to hear and experience God, is through love.

Love as God loves must be given through the grace He gives us, when we pray, receive the sacraments, and love one another.

For me, scheduled prayer time is a must. I pray the Liturgy of the Hours, morning and evening, every day. I pray using Centering Prayer method, every evening following LOHs.

Receiving the Eucharist at Mass, is the height of my prayer life. Jesus is the food that feeds my spiritual being, and without this nourishment, I probably would’ve abandoned prayer long ago.

God’s transforming grace has taken my lifetime so far, mostly because I’m so stubborn. But if not for Him, I wouldn’t be as far along as I am, but I have a long way to go, to be in perfect union with Him.

Anyway, I’m not sure if I’ve confused the purpose of this thread with the linked thread, or visa versa. Apologies if I did.

In Christ Jesus

Jim