How we view our own kids

[Rico_S]

My kids are absolute perfect angels!

when they are sleeping.

Haha. Having read your posts for years…mostly lurking, I would bet you have splendid children!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Wow… again I can relate to this. I have been blessed with kids that are relatively academically successful. With one small exception, they cruise through with As without breaking a sweat. Like the dad you talked about, I don’t believe this is any big deal…I often tell my wife that everyone makes As in gradeshool and middle school (partly b/c I coasted through as well) and that it isn’t that big of a deal. She assures me this not the case and that they really are sharp.

ouch.

My youngest will be the one to not make A’s all the way through. I hope I don’t blame the teachers!

There are blessings and challenges to all gifts…Coasting through the lower grades and even up through high school can give a student a false sense of confidence that can be shattered in college. I actually believe that having to work a little harder to learn and do schoolwork makes a child more mature and ready to handle adversity. We need to help them be resilient because life is not always going to be A grades.

 

[Rico_S]

Tho

In any event they sound like legitimate reasons for bad behavior, not necessarily excuses. .

How are you defining legitimate here? I mean, if my 10 year old spends the night over at someone’s house and comes home tired…I fully understand that she will be more likely to behave badly simple b/c she is tired. But it still is not acceptable.

 

[Rico_S]

. I actually believe that having to work a little harder to learn and do schoolwork makes a child more mature and ready to handle adversity. We need to help them be resilient because life is not always going to be A grades.

100% agree. Kids need a little adversity!!

 

[Kithrus]

How are you defining legitimate here? I mean, if my 10 year old spends the night over at someone’s house and comes home tired…I fully understand that she will be more likely to behave badly simple b/c she is tired. But it still is not acceptable.

1. You been slapped in this thread twice by my count for assuming people are a certain way. We can’t get a read on the snotty child you speak of but we can get a read on how you describe her. Your willingness to go into detail of how terrible she is but softening the blow by saying ‘she’s not THAT bad’ tell us your bitter by her an have a bias on the other end of the scale you accuse her mother of.
2. her mother sees her every day. The good and bad and more importantly knows how to handle her I assume.
3. as I have stated many times on this forum Do Not Come To A Public Forum And Expect No One To Pick At Your Question.
   If you are asking the wrong question (extreme example) ‘how do I best beat my children with a belt so it doesn’t show’ (again extreme example don’t think your that kind of person) we are honor bound to chastis you for asking and tell you you should do it.
4. it’s not you job to convince so so parent about her kid. You can try to couch, plead, argue and lead by example but if it falls on deaf ears STOP.

You frankly have better things to do in your own front yard as they say.

Not trying to slam ya but you been asking for some tough love since you been ‘snotty’ in your own way.

Just take it. Grin and walk away.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I’d argue that the majority of parents these days don’t just have a hard time being objective with their own kids, but find it to be an impossible task. For one example, we’re going through a bullying situation right now. The lead girl has been the primary culprit for at least the last three years. If I were to call her rude, snotty and unpleasant, that would be far more charitable than how I normally describe her. When the school held a voluntary counseling session a few years ago, her parents and the parents of the two other most problematic girls kept their daughters home. The next year when the session was mandatory, this girl’s parents refused again. The only way they were able to get her to participate in the counseling session the following year (the counseling session that was set up specifically to deal with the fallout from all the problems she herself had caused), was to have it take place in school without alerting the parents in advanced. Naturally, her parents were the only ones to complain, and they ultimately had her pulled from the group counseling. We’re far from the only parents who have gone to the principal over this girl, but the mother still vehemently denies that her daughter has ever done anything wrong in any way, shape or form in any area of her life. She’s far from the only parent we deal with who behaves this way, but her daughter is arguably the worst of the bunch.

At the same time, a lot of the problems present in my own family stem from the “not my child” attitude someone else mentioned previously. The family members who are most problematic were raised this way, to the point where anytime their parents were confronted with things they had done, the parents would deny that the behavior had taken place, come up with a litany excuses for why their kids did it, then say that the person being victimized brought it one themselves and, therefore, deserved this treatment they initially claimed had never taken place. Now that these family members are adults (and the ones who have kids are staunch adherents to the “not my child” method of parenting), their parents still offer excuses and openly lie to defend and excuse their behavior.

For my part, I’ve long been criticized for being too objective with my children. I was told I was being too harsh or not supportive enough. I believe I’m very supportive, but I’m not going to tell my kids they’re going to be the next Nolan Ryan when they can’t throw a ball. We struggled with our son for two years because he got it into his head that, when he grew up, he wanted to do something completely beyond the scope of his abilities. For the sake of discussion, I’ll say he wanted to be a theoretical physicist. His brain isn’t hardwired for math. While he would get passing and occasionally good grades depending on the specific subject, math was always a struggle. We were quite proud of him for scraping through the highest level math class he took in high school with C’s and D’s (I’m much better at math than him and the class was beyond my abilities to assist him), but we didn’t have any illusions that he’d be the next Stephen Hawking. Several family members insisted on supporting this dream, though, and they thought I was a horrible parent for not doing the same. He finally got over it when he got to college and tested into a remedial math class. That class was great for him because it got him centered and allowed him to be successful in the mandatory classes for his major, but I was somehow portrayed as the villain for stringing him along then shattering his dreams.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Gordon, I could not agree more.

Some of this “Dream Big!” ideology that runs through our country is wholly unrealistic. It’s a tough line to walk - to be able to encourage a child to have high goals, but not to minimize that same child’s all too real challenges. Not every child is going to be able to be the next astronaut (there’s no space program any more so perhaps that’s not the best example) or the President. Oh, wait, we hire unqualified and unsuitable people for that job, don’t we…

Well, not every child is going to be the next LeBron James or Johnny Manziel then. I think it’s cruel to tell our kids that they can be “anything they want to be.” It’s not true! God gave each of them specific gifts, as we heard in Scripture 2 Sundays ago. Some have more than one gift, and really can pick from several good directions, or do several things at the same time. Others need to focus on their strengths and be realistic about their handicaps.

I’ve really had to struggle with encouragement of desire to pursue an interest, while being realistic and not portraying this child as the next great on-stage performer. It’s always possible that he will “hit the big time,” but it’s not probable that he will. There are millions of others who are more talented and who work harder, frankly. He seems to want the rewards without having to work as hard, which, as we all know, doesn’t get you to your goal. I do want my sons to have dreams and work to achieve them, but I don’t want to give them some kind of fantasy about their specific gifts.

Even being gifted in one area does not mean that God is necessarily calling you to use those gifts in society’s normal pathway. One could be the next Stephen Hawking and still be called to a priestly vocation and end up doing missionary work in Asia, perhaps designing new ways to discover new sources of energy or water and getting them to the people who need them, while ministering to their souls as well.

It’s really all about what God wants us to do with His lives (our lives).

 

[HouseArrest]

How are you defining legitimate here? I mean, if my 10 year old spends the night over at someone’s house and comes home tired…I fully understand that she will be more likely to behave badly simple b/c she is tired. But it still is not acceptable.

I believe, in my last post, I wrote that they were reasons, and not excuses. Which means not acceptable.

 

[Serap]

That’s the most charitable response I could muster up to a post on a Catholic message board where someone is proclaiming that they know their wife’s sister’s kid is “rude, snotty and in general an unpleasant person” and that they know this better than the child’s own mother who would disagree. All the while proclaiming that they are objective when it comes to how they perceive their own children…

Often I have witnessed people having a personal bias against others, especially children, that reflects how they view a person. I can’t imagine someone like JPII, any saint or Jesus calling a child such things . Especially a child that you don’t even live with to know so personally.

fair enough.

my friend’s daughter is very rude whenever I see her and her parents spoil her and think she’s perfect. sometimes it happens unfortunately. she’s an only child to IVF mom, so I think that she was a much wanted child. they indulge her way too much. she’s a bully to my daughter. my husband and I don’t really enjoy being around this child very much.

 

[Serap]

My kids are absolute perfect angels!

when they are sleeping.

mine too, unless they wake up

 

[Serap]

so proud of my daughter last night. she’s in kinder and she read a Grade 1 level book with me last night…so so proud.

my daughter is perfect you know!

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Well, not every child is going to be the next LeBron James or Johnny Manziel then. I think it’s cruel to tell our kids that they can be “anything they want to be.” It’s not true! God gave each of them specific gifts, as we heard in Scripture 2 Sundays ago. Some have more than one gift, and really can pick from several good directions, or do several things at the same time. Others need to focus on their strengths and be realistic about their handicaps.

[snip]

It’s really all about what God wants us to do with His lives (our lives).

My girls ask me all the time if I’d be happier if they grew up to be ABC as opposed to XYZ. I tell them to find something they do well and that makes them happy. I also stress that if they’re happy, that’s what will make me happy. Too many of our friends push their kids and drive them to excel in as many different activities as possible. One friend’s daughter is on a competitive dance team. She’s almost 11 and has been doing it for about two years. She just moved up to the next division and with between her team and private instructor she’s at class/practice 18 hours each week, not counting the weeks she has a competition. They’re debating whether to cut out summer sports or camp this year. I don’t see how they have time to be kids. (For the record, they’re also “not my kid” parents. The last time we were at breakfast with them, she threw a plateful of eggs across the room, nearly hitting a waitress, and nothing was done.)

 

[Serap]

I’d argue that the majority of parents these days don’t just have a hard time being objective with their own kids, but find it to be an impossible task. For one example, we’re going through a bullying situation right now. The lead girl has been the primary culprit for at least the last three years. If I were to call her rude, snotty and unpleasant, that would be far more charitable than how I normally describe her. When the school held a voluntary counseling session a few years ago, her parents and the parents of the two other most problematic girls kept their daughters home. The next year when the session was mandatory, this girl’s parents refused again. The only way they were able to get her to participate in the counseling session the following year (the counseling session that was set up specifically to deal with the fallout from all the problems she herself had caused), was to have it take place in school without alerting the parents in advanced. Naturally, her parents were the only ones to complain, and they ultimately had her pulled from the group counseling. We’re far from the only parents who have gone to the principal over this girl, but the mother still vehemently denies that her daughter has ever done anything wrong in any way, shape or form in any area of her life. She’s far from the only parent we deal with who behaves this way, but her daughter is arguably the worst of the bunch.

At the same time, a lot of the problems present in my own family stem from the “not my child” attitude someone else mentioned previously. The family members who are most problematic were raised this way, to the point where anytime their parents were confronted with things they had done, the parents would deny that the behavior had taken place, come up with a litany excuses for why their kids did it, then say that the person being victimized brought it one themselves and, therefore, deserved this treatment they initially claimed had never taken place. Now that these family members are adults (and the ones who have kids are staunch adherents to the “not my child” method of parenting), their parents still offer excuses and openly lie to defend and excuse their behavior.

For my part, I’ve long been criticized for being too objective with my children. I was told I was being too harsh or not supportive enough. I believe I’m very supportive, but I’m not going to tell my kids they’re going to be the next Nolan Ryan when they can’t throw a ball. We struggled with our son for two years because he got it into his head that, when he grew up, he wanted to do something completely beyond the scope of his abilities. For the sake of discussion, I’ll say he wanted to be a theoretical physicist. His brain isn’t hardwired for math. While he would get passing and occasionally good grades depending on the specific subject, math was always a struggle. We were quite proud of him for scraping through the highest level math class he took in high school with C’s and D’s (I’m much better at math than him and the class was beyond my abilities to assist him), but we didn’t have any illusions that he’d be the next Stephen Hawking. Several family members insisted on supporting this dream, though, and they thought I was a horrible parent for not doing the same. He finally got over it when he got to college and tested into a remedial math class. That class was great for him because it got him centered and allowed him to be successful in the mandatory classes for his major, but I was somehow portrayed as the villain for stringing him along then shattering his dreams.

My dad wanted me to be an engineer and I suck at math…then when it didn’t happed, I felt like a disappointment.

Kids have to be aware of their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Serap]

My girls ask me all the time if I’d be happier if they grew up to be ABC as opposed to XYZ. I tell them to find something they do well and that makes them happy. I also stress that if they’re happy, that’s what will make me happy. Too many of our friends push their kids and drive them to excel in as many different activities as possible. One friend’s daughter is on a competitive dance team. She’s almost 11 and has been doing it for about two years. She just moved up to the next division and with between her team and private instructor she’s at class/practice 18 hours each week, not counting the weeks she has a competition. They’re debating whether to cut out summer sports or camp this year. I don’t see how they have time to be kids. (For the record, they’re also “not my kid” parents. The last time we were at breakfast with them, she threw a plateful of eggs across the room, nearly hitting a waitress, and nothing was done.)

100% agree. I say this too. I honestly don’t care what they choose to do as long as they try their best and it’s something they enjoy.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

100% agree. I say this too. I honestly don’t care what they choose to do as long as they try their best and it’s something they enjoy.

My daughters came home from playing with a friend one day and were very upset because their friend had been telling them that if they don’t grow up to be XYZ (which is what her dad happened to be), then they’re losers. I told them that’s ridiculous and that I’d never want them to pursue a career just because someone would look down on them for going into some other field. I’d rather they be happy stay at home moms than miserable CEO’s.

 

[Serap]

My daughters came home from playing with a friend one day and were very upset because their friend had been telling them that if they don’t grow up to be XYZ (which is what her dad happened to be), then they’re losers. I told them that’s ridiculous and that I’d never want them to pursue a career just because someone would look down on them for going into some other field. I’d rather they be happy stay at home moms than miserable CEO’s.

definitely

 

[Allegra]

Wow… again I can relate to this. I have been blessed with kids that are relatively academically successful. With one small exception, they cruise through with As without breaking a sweat. Like the dad you talked about, I don’t believe this is any big deal…I often tell my wife that everyone makes As in gradeshool and middle school (partly b/c I coasted through as well) and that it isn’t that big of a deal. She assures me this not the case and that they really are sharp.

ouch.

My youngest will be the one to not make A’s all the way through. I hope I don’t blame the teachers!

I hope this dad stops blaming the teachers too and gets an attitude adjustment quick. His little son has listened to his dad go on for years about how unchallenging our school is and how any kid can get an “A”. (We actually don’t use the alpha grading scale but you get the point.) How is the little guy going to feel when he gets "B"s and maybe even an occasional “C”? His dad needs to drop the victim pitch and start encouraging his little boy in his strengths before he settles into the idea that he’s a complete halfwit compared to his brilliant siblings and seeks out other routes to “specialness” or gives himself some sort of anxiety disorder trying to catch up to a level he might not have it in him to ever achieve.

 

[Allegra]

I think there’s a bit of confusion regarding the idea that a child can be whatever they want to be. What we should say is that a child MAY be whatever they want to be. In other words, they have a right to TRY to be and astro physicist not the right to BE an astro physicist. If a child wishes to persue an interest in physics, then I would encourage him to do so. That doesn’t mean he is going to be the next whoever, however, if he works hard, there’s no reason that he can develop an understanding of physics. Certainly, an understanding a physics was never a detriment to anyone, so there’s no reason to discourage a child from persuing physics just because they got a C in math in the third grade. Same goes for sports. Is your kid going to be the Next-Michael-Jordan. Ummmm…no. Can he enjoy playing basketball for the rest of his life if that’s his passion? Why yes he can! Why discourage him from an interest that could enhance his life just because he isn’t going to make a career of it? Same goes for music. Is your kid going to be a famous violinist? No. Will he enjoy playing violin his whole life and maybe make a few bucks here and there playing Ave Maria at people’s weddings? Why not? Just because a person isn’t going to do something for a living or become the next so-and-so doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t persue a talent or interest they are passionate about.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Those parents don’t need to offer any explanation for their kids’ behavior, but for some reason must feel like they do.

In any event they sound like legitimate reasons for bad behavior, not necessarily excuses. Maybe they are saving the correction for a private time and place. I know I don’t make a habit of correcting my children in front of others.

Obviously this is a matter of parenting preferences with how each unique person decides to approach problems…
However, just as an outside observer… this approach does leave the *impression *with other parents that the behavior is tolerated and acceptable.

And that’s what this whole thread is about.
You don’t know how the parent is disciplining at home, or how the child behaves at home… so we’re all working from outside appearances and observations.

People do pay attention to our outside behavior - both the children and the parents.

Not that there’s just one “right” way of doing things, but this is how this type of confusion happens.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think there’s a bit of confusion regarding the idea that a child can be whatever they want to be. What we should say is that a child MAY be whatever they want to be. In other words, they have a right to TRY to be and astro physicist not the right to BE an astro physicist. If a child wishes to persue an interest in physics, then I would encourage him to do so. That doesn’t mean he is going to be the next whoever, however, if he works hard, there’s no reason that he can develop an understanding of physics. Certainly, an understanding a physics was never a detriment to anyone, so there’s no reason to discourage a child from persuing physics just because they got a C in math in the third grade. Same goes for sports. Is your kid going to be the Next-Michael-Jordan. Ummmm…no. Can he enjoy playing basketball for the rest of his life if that’s his passion? Why yes he can! Why discourage him from an interest that could enhance his life just because he isn’t going to make a career of it? Same goes for music. Is your kid going to be a famous violinist? No. Will he enjoy playing violin his whole life and maybe make a few bucks here and there playing Ave Maria at people’s weddings? Why not? Just because a person isn’t going to do something for a living or become the next so-and-so doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t persue a talent or interest they are passionate about.

No confusion on my part, but with fame and fortune being held up to our kids every day, many times the attraction of those factors convinces kids that they CAN be the next XYZ if they show the slightest bit of talent at something. And we can’t deny, sometimes people are in the right place at the right time and become an overnight sensation. But most people don’t.

Also, we can continue to develop our talents and gifts throughout our lives, it’s not one static point that never changes.