How we will live outside the time?

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Sam_777

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Later on once we are in the realm of GOD, how we will live outside the time, for example, if I want to tell one of the Angels that I want to take a tour in heavens “tomorrow”, or when I tell my sister/brother in Christ that I had a wonderful tour “yesterday”.

How exactly we will deal with time at that stage?
 
Don’t worry about it.

Currently, we do not have the words to describe a life outside of time, just as we do not presently have a body that can do it!

Once you are in your pneumatikon soma, these new aspects of your life will be literally “second nature”.

ICXC NIKA!
 
GEddie said:
Don’t worry about it.

Currently, we do not have the words to describe a life outside of time, just as we do not presently have a body that can do it!

Once you are in your pneumatikon soma, these new aspects of your life will be literally “second nature”.

ICXC NIKA!
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Yes!
 
Sam_777 said:
Later on once we are in the realm of GOD, how we will live outside the time, for example, if I want to tell one of the Angels that I want to take a tour in heavens “tomorrow”, or when I tell my sister/brother in Christ that I had a wonderful tour “yesterday”.

How exactly we will deal with time at that stage?
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Sam,

This may help a bit, it did help me:

I heard it explained that chronos time is the time we measure (on earth); and kairos time (greek word?) can describe eternity.

In our everyday life we experience chronos time, and sometimes we can experience kairos time. It is the eternal now! If you are experiencing a deep conversation with someone and you both go on and on without even noticing the passage of time, that can be thought of as kairos time.

Also, when someone at prayer experiences the deepness of God’s love for them and say fifteen minutes of chronos time passes, and they weren’t even conscious of it as they basked in the love of the Lord, that is kairos
time - a peek into heaven.

That helped me to understand.🙂

Peace,

Dorothy
 
Dorothy said:
It is the eternal now! If you are experiencing a deep conversation with someone and you both go on and on without even noticing the passage of time, that can be thought of as kairos time.
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Interesting theory…
 
There are only three possibilities that I can think offor how time passes in heaven. ( I don’t actually know which of the three, if any, the curch adheres to.) It may pass as time on earth passes, or else move fundamentally differently (like earth and Narnia). or it may be that we truly will be timeless in heaven.

That has some interesting implications. It seems to me that if we are timeless, then when we die we must immediately become omniscient. A timeless being can not change, and an increase in knowledge would be change.

likewise, if there is a period when you are not taking a tour of the heavens, and later are, and still later have finnished the tour, you have undergone a change. This means that movement itself is incompatible with timelessness, as movement requires a change in your bodily position and orientation. Clearly, a timeless world can not be physical in the way we understand it.

There is another interesting effect of timelessness. We can pray to saints and ask them for intercessions. Why not ask any dead person who may be in heaven to pray for us? For that matter, we will eventually die ourselves and assume a timeless state. at that point, we will be able to view the history of the universe as the events are unfolding! That includes your life before you died. This means that, if heaven is timeless, and we get to witness events on earth from heaven, your heavenly self is looking down on you at this very moment! Does this mean that we can pray to ourselves? or even more intriguing- to our grandchildren?
 
zro_x said:
There are only three possibilities that I can think offor how time passes in heaven. ( I don’t actually know which of the three, if any, the curch adheres to.) It may pass as time on earth passes, or else move fundamentally differently (like earth and Narnia). or it may be that we truly will be timeless in heaven.

That has some interesting implications. It seems to me that if we are timeless, then when we die we must immediately become omniscient. A timeless being can not change, and an increase in knowledge would be change.

likewise, if there is a period when you are not taking a tour of the heavens, and later are, and still later have finnished the tour, you have undergone a change. This means that movement itself is incompatible with timelessness, as movement requires a change in your bodily position and orientation. Clearly, a timeless world can not be physical in the way we understand it.

There is another interesting effect of timelessness. We can pray to saints and ask them for intercessions. Why not ask any dead person who may be in heaven to pray for us? For that matter, we will eventually die ourselves and assume a timeless state. at that point, we will be able to view the history of the universe as the events are unfolding! That includes your life before you died. This means that, if heaven is timeless, and we get to witness events on earth from heaven, your heavenly self is looking down on you at this very moment! Does this mean that we can pray to ourselves? or even more intriguing- to our grandchildren?
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Linear entropic time is not the only time possible.

Eternity is not a point on the time line; it encompasses all times.

Since we will have bodies (pneumatikon soma) and must therefore be able to move, something analogous to time must be present, although it will not be the entropy-ridden fall toward nonbeing that we know as time.

ICXC NIKA
 
I find many of the claims in this thread unsupportable.

Being finite beings who can change, we will experience time in Heaven exactly as we do on Earth,
with one exception: it will not be burdensome.

We will participate in divine nature, but this would be impossible if we could only think as we can know. Aquinas says we will undergo “divinization”, a promotion of our intellect so that we can see God as he is.
Among other things,
these means that we will be able to think of everything we know at once, rather than think one thought at a time which would be burdensome because we’d always be waiting for the next thought to enter our minds.
At the same time, we will be learning all the time, because creatures cannot be happy unless they have something significant to do. We will not be impatient to learn more because there is no deadline. We have eternity to do it.
 
empther said:
I find many of the claims in this thread unsupportable.

Being finite beings who can change, we will experience time in Heaven exactly as we do on Earth,
with one exception: it will not be burdensome.

We will participate in divine nature, but this would be impossible if we could only think as we can know. Aquinas says we will undergo “divinization”, a promotion of our intellect so that we can see God as he is.
Among other things,
these means that we will be able to think of everything we know at once, rather than think one thought at a time which would be burdensome because we’d always be waiting for the next thought to enter our minds.
At the same time, we will be learning all the time, because creatures cannot be happy unless they have something significant to do. We will not be impatient to learn more because there is no deadline. We have eternity to do it.
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NOt exactly as we do now.

What we experience as time is really entropy, out in the world, or cooking off inside our head.

We will not be entropic beings in Eternity.

ICXC NIKA
 
Thanks everyone for your contributions, but how the Angels were interacting with our earthy time when GOD send them down to earth for specific tasks, how they talk to each others in Heavens, for example, wouldn’t one Angel tell another Angel "before 5000 years I destroyed Sdom and Amora"?
 
And, we can overthink this whole matter and go nuts. 🙂

Just trust the Lord, focusing on growing in His Love in the way He showed us how.
 
Sam_777 said:
How exactly we will deal with time at that stage?
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The major problem is simply one of grammar, and the main work to consult in this matter is Dr. Dan Streetmentioner’s Time Traveler’s Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations. It will tell you, for instance, how to describe something that was about to happen to you in the past before you avoided it by time-jumping forward two days in order to avoid it. The event will be described differently according to whether you are talking about it from the standpoint of your own natural time, from a time in the further future, or a time in the further past and is further complicated by the possibility of conducting conversations while you are actually traveling from one time to another with the intention of becoming your own mother or father.

Most readers get as far as the Future Semiconditionally Modified Subinverted Plagal Past Subjunctive Intentional before giving up; and in fact in later editions of the book all pages beyond this point have been left blank to save on printing costs.

The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy skips lightly over this tangle of academic abstraction, pausing only to note that the term “Future Perfect” has been abandoned since it was discovered not to be.

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe 😃
 
Would it be possible to pray for your ancestors or even yourself in the present from heaven? I wonder if your prayers in heaven in eternity can affect you in the present.
 
@ Sam_777:

According to Empther and GEddie, when we die we will not live outside time, but live in time in a different way. This may or may not extend to the angels, but in any case, we know that there is at least one truly timeless (eternal) being: God himself. We might try rephrasing the question in terms of God, for example, wouldn’t god consider the burning bush to be in the past, and judgment day to be in the future? not exactly. Picture a regular Sunday comic. To the characters, time seems to flow along normally, but the artist can meddle in any panel within the comic. In the real world, the fourth dimension is time, and perhaps the best way to visualize this is to consider an infinite number of still frame universes that we are being pulled through very rapidly, much like film through a projector. God simply injects himself into certain parts of history, and affects nature in such a way that Moses sees a burning bush, and Adam and eve hear a voice reprimanding them for eating of the fruit. Now think of time as a line, with events starting with point A on the left and moving to point B in the middle and and then on to point C on the right. This time line extends from the beginning to the end of the universe. Now imagine that we stretch this line vertically so that it becomes a plane of timelines that are exact replicas of each other. In fact, we stretch this line so that the plane extends infinitely up and down, meaning an infinite number of identical timelines. My understanding of how god experiences time is that he experiences it as a series of these lines, from top to bottom if you prefer, rather than as a series of points from left to right. This is the reason for “a day is as a thousand years to god, and a thousand years as one day.” the whole of history of creation exists in one moment of god’s “time”, but each moment of our time is experienced forever by God! Sodom and Gomorrah, from god’s perspective, is happening right now, just like every other event in history.

If angels are timeless, they would meddle in the affairs of the world in a similar manner.
 
Dorothy said:
And, we can overthink this whole matter and go nuts. 🙂
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🙂
inocente said:
― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe 😃
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:whacky:
zro_x said:
My understanding of how god experiences time is that he experiences it as a series of these lines, from top to bottom if you prefer, rather than as a series of points from left to right. This is the reason for “a day is as a thousand years to god, and a thousand years as one day.” the whole of history of creation exists in one moment of god’s “time”,
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Interesting point…
 
Sam_777 said:
Later on once we are in the realm of GOD, how we will live outside the time, for example, if I want to tell one of the Angels that I want to take a tour in heavens “tomorrow”, or when I tell my sister/brother in Christ that I had a wonderful tour “yesterday”.

How exactly we will deal with time at that stage?
Click to expand...
Time is change. God cannot change (this follows logically from the attribute of necessary existence), but everything that is part of the universe (the sum of contingent objects) changes. So, we definitely cannot exist outside time. God is without the universe outside time and he entered time with the creation of the universe (but is not dependent on time).

In the afterlife we will experience time like any other place in the universe. The angels experience time differently, according to the operation of their intellects. Whether we will still measure time by observing the regular motions of objects in a fixed context, I have no idea.
 
InJesusItrust said:
Would it be possible to pray for your ancestors or even yourself in the present from heaven? I wonder if your prayers in heaven in eternity can affect you in the present.
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This is a very important observation and I was wondering the same thing. If Heaven is outside of time and encompasses all time then it seems like if we were going to go to Heaven we would be there right now; not only that but the last judgement has occurred as well. How can we say Heaven is outside of time without coming to this conclusion?
 
Wintersdemise said:
This is a very important observation and I was wondering the same thing. If Heaven is outside of time and encompasses all time then it seems like if we were going to go to Heaven we would be there right now; not only that but the last judgement has occurred as well. How can we say Heaven is outside of time without coming to this conclusion?
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a valid point. which is why heaven is most likely not outside of time, as empther and Geddie pointed out.
 
“Just as a blind man is unable to form any idea about colors, or a deaf person to fathom what it means to hear sounds… so the body cannot comprehend the delights of the soul… For we live in a material world, and the only kind of pleasure we can understand is that experienced through our body. But the joys of the spirit are everlasting and ceaseless. There is no resemblance of any kind between the enjoyments of the soul and those of the body.”
–Maimonides
 
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