How well can you answer this question?

[fellowChristian]

Coming late to this discussion. Still, really, all I wanted to respond to was not the whole thread, but the OPs opening remarks:

Thank-you for your view.

My view is that whereever two or three are gathered in Christ’s name, Christ is also present. And thus even in those ecclesiastical bodies that the Catholic church does not recognize as the Church, I find that Christ is present in them. And because Christ is present, it is not the bishop or any other person, but Christ acting through the administration of those bodies who actually ordains.

I don’t expect a Catholic to agree with that view. But I thought you might be interested in knowing that what you object to in protestant ordinations just completely misses the point as far as I am concerned. I don’t even think that in the Catholic church that it is the bishops who ordain. Even there it is Christ who does the ordaining. So, we all have exactly the same ordination. But I grant you that some play a pretty good game of tag. And as far as tag goes, I think that Anglicans and Methodist are it just as much as Catholics, whether you recognize it or not is again not all that important to me, as I only seek the recognition of Christ, which I believe I have received.

Why is it with Protestants it is either “this way or that way”? Only one way?

So much subtraction:shrug:

In the New Testament age the **high priest **is Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1),

the ministerial priests are Christ’s **ordained ministers **of the gospel (Rom. 15:16),

and the **universal priests **are the entire Christian people (1 Peter. 2:5, 9).

And remember it was always this way from the time of Moses to Jesus through the Apostles and the Catholic Church until 1517ad. when men decided they knew better then the church Jesus left us. Sin can blind you from the truth.Do you need to find the truth? 1 Tim 3:15. The church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Ask yourself “which church?” Jesus said if he still doesn’t listen take him to the church. “which church?” History shows none of the Protestant denominations existed before 1517ad. so it wasn’t one of them. Place every prejudice you have against the Catholic Church aside or your personal “opinions”. The Bible did not fall from heaven. Your “traditions” you follow came from somewhere. How do you think your denomination came to know about the Trinity? The Bible does not teach you about the Trinity. The Bible does not say how many books should be in it. The Bible does not tell you that it is the sole authority. It says the church is. That is how you know about the Trinity and who with the help of the Holy Spirit decided which books to place together. The church.

Why do you reject the church, but not it’s book?

He did not say…

"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My book; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

He said…

Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

cin.org/users/james/files/ntpriest.htm

cin.org/users/jgallegos/hlyord.htm

zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m5/scmnt6.html

cin.org/users/jgallegos/success.htm

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Why is it with Protestants it is either “this way or that way”? Only one way?

So much subtraction:shrug:

In the New Testament age the **high priest **is Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1),

the ministerial priests are Christ’s **ordained ministers **of the gospel (Rom. 15:16),

and the **universal priests **are the entire Christian people (1 Peter. 2:5, 9).

And remember it was always this way from the time of Moses to Jesus through the Apostles and the Catholic Church until 1517ad. when men decided they knew better then the church Jesus left us. Sin can blind you from the truth.Do you need to find the truth? 1 Tim 3:15. The church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Ask yourself “which church?” Jesus said if he still doesn’t listen take him to the church. “which church?” History shows none of the Protestant denominations existed before 1517ad. so it wasn’t one of them. Place every prejudice you have against the Catholic Church aside or your personal “opinions”. The Bible did not fall from heaven. Your “traditions” you follow came from somewhere. How do you think your denomination came to know about the Trinity? The Bible does not teach you about the Trinity. The Bible does not say how many books should be in it. The Bible does not tell you that it is the sole authority. It says the church is. That is how you know about the Trinity and who with the help of the Holy Spirit decided which books to place together. The church.

Why do you reject the church, but not it’s book?

He did not say…

"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My book; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

He said…

Matthew 16:18
"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

cin.org/users/james/files/ntpriest.htm

cin.org/users/jgallegos/hlyord.htm

zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m5/scmnt6.html

cin.org/users/jgallegos/success.htm

You quoted me, and then made your statement. I have to say that I must be blind, because I don’t see the connection between what you said and what I said.

First, I don’t agree with your premise that “with Protestants it is either “this way or that way”? Only one way?” Take a look at all the different ways we practice communion, baptism, the various forms of liturgies that are used. And I am not just talking about comparing different protestant groups, but within the life of one congregation. And that pattern is found in congregation after congregation. So, I don’t see why you suggest taht protestants say it is “this way or that way”? While no doubt you can find some who are that way, I don’t think that as a group we actually do? There is room for lots of different kinds of diversity in most protestant churches.

And how does any of the rest of what you said have anything to do with the point I was making that my understanding of ordination is that Christ does not require the chain of apostolic succession (even though I do believe it exists in some denominations) to provide for valid ordination of his priest. But rather that the authority for this exists in the body gatthered in the presence of Christ and led by the Holy Spirit? It seems as if you are saying that it isn’t that way but this way.

 

[dparker]

I just want to briefly thank the posters in this thread for an interesting and thoughtful exchange on topics that have been in my thoughts as well.

Thank you!