How were the Apostles baptized? By John, or the Spirit?

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Hello everyone!

There is probably an easy answer for this, but I thought I would get all of your thoughts.

In discussing salvation and the neccessity of baptism, the Apostles and their baptism came up. Namely, when was it, and how? Also, how does the baptizm by John prior to Jesus’ death relate to the baptism into the new covenant? Was John’s baptism also for the remission of Original Sin, only the Grace wasn’t applied until Christ’s resurrection (or Pentecost)? Or did everyone baptized by John need to be “re-baptized” sacramentally with water by the apostles and their successors? Obviously, the Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, but was that considered their Confirmation since they were already baptized (we can assume, since Jesus was) by John?

I’m throwing a lot out there, but it is a bit confusing how all these relate, and having a good understanding is important when discussing the truth of baptism with our separated brethren.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Peace,
javelin
 
Hi Javelin,

John’s baptism conferred no grace. It was symbolic of repentance and a change of life. Since the apostles received the Holy Spirit we must assume that God gave them the grace of baptism at the same time as he confirmed them in that grace.

Verbum
 
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javelin:
Hello everyone!

There is probably an easy answer for this, but I thought I would get all of your thoughts.

In discussing salvation and the neccessity of baptism, the Apostles and their baptism came up. Namely, when was it, and how? Also, how does the baptizm by John prior to Jesus’ death relate to the baptism into the new covenant? Was John’s baptism also for the remission of Original Sin, only the Grace wasn’t applied until Christ’s resurrection (or Pentecost)? Or did everyone baptized by John need to be “re-baptized” sacramentally with water by the apostles and their successors? Obviously, the Apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, but was that considered their Confirmation since they were already baptized (we can assume, since Jesus was) by John?

I’m throwing a lot out there, but it is a bit confusing how all these relate, and having a good understanding is important when discussing the truth of baptism with our separated brethren.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Peace,
javelin
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Acts 1:5 Jesus spoke to the disciples and said “for John baptised with water, but in a few days you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit”.

They were baptised when the Holy Spirit descended on them like tongues of fire.
 
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thistle:
Acts 1:5 Jesus spoke to the disciples and said “for John baptised with water, but in a few days you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit”.

They were baptised when the Holy Spirit descended on them like tongues of fire.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t that supposed to be their confirmation, though?

This passage is often used to support the protestant notion that water baptism is just a symbol, like John’s baptism, while the real baptism is when we are infused with the Holy Spirit (like Pentecost) and “Born Again”.

So how does Catholic understanding differ so that Catholic doctrine is supported?

Peace,
javelin
 
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javelin:
Wasn’t that supposed to be their confirmation, though?

This passage is often used to support the protestant notion that water baptism is just a symbol, like John’s baptism, while the real baptism is when we are infused with the Holy Spirit (like Pentecost) and “Born Again”.

So how does Catholic understanding differ so that Catholic doctrine is supported?
Click to expand...
As was already noted, the baptisms performed by John were not Christian baptisms. So while it may be that some of the Apostles received John’s baptism, there is no evidence that the Apostles received Sacramental baptism, but there is evidence that they were baptized through their being “immersed” in the Life, Death and Resurrection of the Lord with the completion of this in their Pentecost experience (confirmation).
 
Acts 9:1-19a (NAB)

Now Saul, still breathing murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, that, if he should find any men or women who belonged to the Way, he might bring them back to Jerusalem in chains. On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do.” The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, for they heard the voice but could see no one. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him to Damascus.
For three days he was unable to see, and he neither ate nor drank. There was a disciple in Damascus named Ananias, and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” He answered, “Here I am, Lord.” The Lord said to him, “Get up and go to the street called Straight and ask at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul. He is there praying, and (in a vision) he has seen a man named Ananias come in and lay (his) hands on him, that he may regain his sight.” But Ananias replied, “Lord, I have heard from many sources about this man, what evil things he has done to your holy ones in Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to imprison all who call upon your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for this man is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before Gentiles, kings, and Israelites, and I will show him what he will have to suffer for my name.” So Ananias went and entered the house; laying his hands on him, he said, “Saul, my brother, the Lord has sent me, Jesus who appeared to you on the way by which you came, that you may regain your sight and be filled with the holy Spirit.” Immediately things like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. He got up and was baptized, and when he had eaten, he recovered his strength.
 
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javelin:
Was John’s baptism also for the remission of Original Sin, only the Grace wasn’t applied until Christ’s resurrection (or Pentecost)?
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The Apostles received the Holy Spirit forty-nine days before the Feast of Pentecost.On the evening of that day, the first day of the week [Easter Sunday], the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
John 20:19-22John’s Baptism was a baptism of repentance. It could forgive no sin because the atoning sacrifice for sin had not yet been offered.

When an adult desires to receive the grace of Baptism, he must have within his heart two things – faith and repentance for his sins. John’s Baptism was an outward sign of repentance and faith. The Apostles could not receiving the graces of Sacramental Baptism until the death and resurrection of Jesus.Sacrament: An outward sign instituted by Christ that signifies the grace that it bestows.Confirmation is the Sacrament that strengthens the graces received by the Sacrament of Baptism (Confirmation does not bestow the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to a Christian, the Sacrament of Baptism does that). On Pentecost the Apostles received a strengthening of the sanctifying gifts of the Holy Spirit that they already possessed, and they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, i.e. they received the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit that enabled the Apostles to evangelize the world and build up the Body of Christ.
 
I know this is 4 years late but according to atleast one church Father, Clement of Alexandria (cAD 190) the Apostles were baptized:

Christ is said to have baptised Peter alone, and Peter Andrew, and Andrew John, and they James and the rest.
 
Immediately after Jesus and Nicodemus have a long protracted conversation about the necessity of baptism - which I find very hard to believe is not about the necessity of baptism (John 3:5) - the disciples and Jesus go and, “After these things, Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea; there He remained with them, and He baptized.”(John 3:22)

Presumably, He baptized the people He was with - the disciples. Now, people get all worked up about this because of 4:1-2, where “Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John — although, in fact, it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples**.**”

“He baptized in 3:22,” and “not Jesus who baptized” in 4:1-2? Yes. The heavily implied object of the verb “baptized” in 3:22 is “disciples.” They are the only other people in the sentence. In 3:26, “everyone” goes to him after he baptizes (so now we are dealing with more and different people). In 4:1-2, the pharisees wrongly believed that he was “baptizing more disciples than John;” He did not baptize these people, “but his disciples.” This does not mean that he never baptized, because in 3:22 we are explicitly told that he did baptize somebody.

The most likely reading of this text is not that Nicodemus and he talked about amniotic fluid and then John coincidentally put a baptism story next to it, where he said that Jesus baptized, but then forgot within twenty sentences. It is, rather, the above reading, where Jesus baptizes the disciples, and no one else.
 
BerhaneSelassie said:
I know this is 4 years late but according to atleast one church Father, Clement of Alexandria (cAD 190) the Apostles were baptized:

Christ is said to have baptised Peter alone, and Peter Andrew, and Andrew John, and they James and the rest.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. Christ Baptized several only …but not Judas Iscariot
 
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