How will unity finally be achieved?

[dosdog]

Hi
I would do what JesusYeshuaIssa did under similiar situation. Do you believe in Jesus? If yes, then why you suggest me against that.
Thanks
.

Luke 22
35 When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, did you want anything? 36 But they said: Nothing. Then said he unto them: But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a scrip; and he that hath not, let him sell his coat, and buy a sword. 37 For I say to you, that this that is written must yet be fulfilled in me:

Matthew 10
31 Fear not therefore: better are you than many sparrows. 32 Every one therefore that shall confess me before men, I will also confess him before my Father who is in heaven. 33 But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven. 34 Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. 35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And as a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it.

 

[paarsurrey]

let him sell his coat, and buy a sword.

Hi
So If we believe that Jesus ever said that; when did JesusYeshuaIssa and his apostles who were present there use that sword. If we believe that they used that sword, even then we believe that Jesus’ teaching was of Love and affection.This concession, logically, should be availabe for others also.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[Bennie_P]

Radical Christians think they’re doing God’s work when they bomb abortion clinics.

How Many abortion clinics have been blown up that you know of? I don’t really need an aswer for that question one would be to many - my point is you appear to be making an attack of “Radical” and deluded Christians, but the statement it is a veiled attack toward the Pro-life movement, which doesn’t advocate such violence. And if you are looking or wish for unity you need to put such comments into proper perspective and context. Abortion clinics are not the World Trade Center, and the lives lost in the clinics are in the millions, but not caused by the mis-guided “radical” Christians. Using violence is wrong period.

People need to stop and realize that the Creator doesn’t rejoice in hatred and destruction. .

This is a truth.

I

can’t think of a more beautiful dream than to have humanity, all as one, glorifying their Creator by whatever name they have given him. *To have Muslims worshipping alongside Hindus, Christians along with pagans, without any hatred or animosity— all focused on the Divine, instead of their **petty ***differences.

The differences are not petty to think so is not to give any respect to any of the groups you mention. There are some real troubling aspects of belief for a Christian to accept in those non-Christian groups. As a Christian we believe in One God, the Hindus and Pagans don’t. As Christians we believe in a loving Father that forgives our trangressions if we repent, and seek forgiveness, the Muslims, believe in works only, and cannot grab on to concept that God the Father wants to love us. Pagans don’t believe in the concept of sin, and that they can control the Spirit world and the world around them. They worship goddeses and gods as well as the Hindus and both have this concept of forever coming back in until they get it right.
Of course These are generalizations that just touch the tip of the icberg of differences and are not intended to be a full description of the different groups full beliefs.

Your idea of unity is a New Age concept of unity and it waters down what is truly needed and has been accomplished for the redemption of the world.

But to see the realization of the unity already claimed by Christ we have to stop trying to be a 1970’s Coke TV Advertisement and seek Him out. That is Jesus Christ.

 

[dosdog]

Hi
So If we believe that Jesus ever said that; when did JesusYeshuaIssa and his apostles who were present there use that sword. If we believe that they used that sword,
Thanks
.

Ezechiel 33
3 And he see the sword coming upon the land, and sound the trumpet, and tell the people: 4 Then he that heareth the sound of the trumpet, whosoever he be, and doth not look to himself, if the sword come, and cut him off: his blood shall be upon his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet and did not look to himself, his blood shall be upon him: but if he look to himself, he shall save his life.

6 And if the watchman see the sword coming, and sound not the trumpet: and the people look not to themselves, and the sword come, and cut off a soul from among them: he indeed is taken away in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at the hand of the watchman. 7 So thou, O son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore thou shalt hear the word from my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me. 8 When I say to the wicked: O wicked man, thou shalt surely die: if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked man from his way: that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. 9 But if thou tell the wicked man, that he may be converted from his ways, and he be not converted from his way: he shall die in his iniquity: but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezechiel 7
14 Blow the trumpet, let all be made ready, yet there is none to go to the battle: for my wrath shall be upon all the people thereof. 15 The sword without: and the pestilence, and the famine within: he that is in the field shall die by the sword: and they that are in the city, shall be devoured by the pestilence, and the famine.

16 And such of them as shall flee shall escape: and they shall be in the mountains like doves of the valleys, all of them trembling, every one for his iniquity. 17 All hands shall be made feeble, and all knees shall run with water. 18 And they shall gird themselves with haircloth, and fear shall cover them, and shame shall be upon every face, and baldness upon all their head

But the same Jesus elsewhere acknowledges the legitimate use of force, telling the apostles, “let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one” (Luke 22:36). How are these passages to be reconciled?

In broad terms, Christians must not love violence. They must promote peace whenever possible and be slow to resort to the use of arms. But they must not be afraid to do so when it is called for. Evil must not be allowed to remain unchecked.

Added weight is given to this realization when one recognizes that Scripture – all of Scripture – is inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16). This means that the Old Testament is just as inspired as the New Testament and thus an expression of the will of Christ.

The Old Testament acknowledges frankly that there is “a time to kill” (Eccles. 3:3). At various times in the Old Testament, God commanded the Israelites to defend their nation by force of arms. Yet it was always with the recognition that peace is the goal to be worked for. Thus the psalmist exclaims, “how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity!” (Ps. 133:1). Peace is the goal, but when it cannot be achieved without force, force must be used.

In the same way, the New Testament sets forth the goal of peace but acknowledges the legitimate use of force. It does so by John the Baptist’s acknowledgment that Roman soldiers, whose job it was to enforce the Pax Romana, or “Peace of Rome,” could keep their jobs (Luke 3:14) and by Paul’s observation that the state “does not bear the sword in vain” but is “God’s servant for your good” (Rom. 13:4).

The most authoritative and up-to-date expression of just war doctrine is found in paragraph 2309 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says:

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time: the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain; all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective; there must be serious prospects of success; the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

catholic.com/library/Just_war_Doctrine_1.asp

 

[Rose79]

How Many abortion clinics have been blown up that you know of?

religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

my point is you appear to be making an attack of “Radical” and deluded Christians, but the statement it is a veiled attack toward the Pro-life movement, which doesn’t advocate such violence.

What the heck are you talking about? For your information, I’m pro-life, too. I’m against all violence done in God’s name, no matter the cause, and that includes causes that I personally support. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t talking about mainstream Christianity when I used the term “radical.” After all, most pro-life Christians don’t advocate bombing abortion clinics. In the future, if you need me to clarify something, just ask, instead of jumping to wildly inaccurate conclusions.

As for the rest, it’s not about accepting other religions as Christians. It’s about accepting them for who they are, understanding that they don’t believe the same as you, and not condemning them for being different. I might be mistaken, but I was under the impression that Catholics believed that every religion had some Truth in it. Those Catholics seem to radiate Christ-like love, and I have tremendous respect for them. But, there are others who display only hatred and judgementalism toward other faiths, and I have very little respect for them. They display the worst of the faith, and probably drive away more potential converts than they realize. (And they, too, probably think they’re doing “God’s work.” Go figure.)

 

[Bennie_P]

What the heck are you talking about? For your information, I’m pro-life, too.

Then may I suggest you please refrain using the rhetoric of the pro-abortionist: Whose “Rhetoric” Leads to Violence?

I’m against all violence done in God’s name, no matter the cause, and that includes causes that I personally support. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t talking about mainstream Christianity when I used the term “radical.” After all, most pro-life Christians don’t advocate bombing abortion clinics. In the future, if you need me to clarify something, just ask, instead of jumping to wildly inaccurate conclusions. .

I appoligize.

As for the rest, it’s not about accepting other religions as Christians. It’s about accepting them for who they are, understanding that they don’t believe the same as you, and not condemning them for being different. I might be mistaken, but I was under the impression that Catholics believed that every religion had some Truth in it…

This what JPII Said and is in some ways misrepresented "****The “seeds of truth” present and active in the various religious traditions are a reflection of the unique Word of God, who “enlightens every man coming into world” (cf. Jn 1:9) and who became flesh in Christ Jesus (cf. Jn 1:14). They are together an “effect of the Spirit of truth operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body” and which “blows where it wills” (Jn 3:8; cf. *Redemptor hominis, *nn. 6, 12). Keeping this doctrine in mind, the celebration of the Jubilee of the Year 2000 “will provide a great opportunity, especially in view of the events of recent decades, for interreligious dialogue” This about us respecting others and thier beliefs and having dialogue, in order to live peacefully, but the final goal will always be conversion to the fullness of Christ love.

Those Catholics seem to radiate Christ-like love, and I have tremendous respect for them. But, there are others who display only hatred and judgementalism toward other faiths, and I** have very little respect for them**. They display the worst of the faith, and probably drive away more potential converts than they realize. (And they, too, probably think they’re doing “God’s work.” Go figure.)

We all, no matter who we are will fail, but we still must show respect and love for each other, otherwise that makes us hateful and judgemental. Look at St Paul, he was a self-righteous murderer, responsible for the death of our first martyr St Stephen.
Saying that, I now say it is impossible for us to worship beside each other as you vision, for I don’t know about you, but I can worship only one God, - I will love them, I will feed them, I will clothe them, I will care for them when they are ill, provide shelter for them when they are homless, protect them from harm by others, but until we worship the same God, I can’t worship with them.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yet it was always with the recognition that peace is the goal to be worked for. Thus the psalmist exclaims, “how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity!” (Ps. 133:1). Peace is the goal, but when it cannot be achieved without force, force must be used.

In the same way, the New Testament sets forth the goal of peace but acknowledges the legitimate use of force. It does so by John the Baptist’s acknowledgment that Roman soldiers, whose job it was to enforce the Pax Romana, or “Peace of Rome,” could keep their jobs (Luke 3:14) and by Paul’s observation that the state “does not bear the sword in vain” but is “God’s servant for your good” (Rom. 13:4).

The most authoritative and up-to-date expression of just war doctrine is found in paragraph 2309 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says:

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time: the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain; all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective; there must be serious prospects of success; the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

catholic.com/library/Just_war_Doctrine_1.asp

Hi
So the just war doctrine option must be available to others also.
Nevertheless this doctrine was never promulgated by Jesus himself, this must have adpoted by the Christian Clergy later on.
Normally the world is taught of love and peace of Christianity.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[dosdog]

Hi
So the just war doctrine option must be available to others also.
Nevertheless this doctrine was promulgated by Jesus himself, .

John 15
7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 In this is my Father glorified; that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. 10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; as I also have kept my Father’s commandments, and do abide in his love.

11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be filled. 12 This is my commandment, that you love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends, if you do the things that I command you.

 

[Rose79]

This about us respecting others and thier beliefs and having dialogue, in order to live peacefully, but the final goal will always be conversion to the fullness of Christ love.

If that’s the case, then that “seed of truth” would ultimately lead people to seek “the fullness of Christ’s love,” would it not? Do Christians not realize that their defensiveness against other faiths only pushes people away? Personally, I think it’s better to build bridges rather than burn them. Christians should serve as an example of God’s love on earth-- and I think the real ones do.

Perhaps I’m being judgemental as well, but I can spot a real Christian from 10 yards away. It’s easy to see through their motives. Some are flashy, sporting Christian clothing and jewelry, wanting everyone to know they’re Christian. Others have a false piety, clearly just trying to earn brownie points in heaven. But the real ones take my breath away. They’re unassuming to the untrained eye. They don’t seek attention, they don’t broadcast their beliefs or their good deeds. They just live a life that would make Jesus proud. They’re very rare indeed.

These are the Christians that make people want to convert-- not the ones who loudly proclaim how wrong the “false” religions are, and seek to divide us along religous lines. Those people don’t even realize the harm they’re causing. Most non-Christians wouldn’t even consider converting to a religion that treats them like their enemy. Why not just let the “seed of Truth” guide them? Why do you feel that you need to defend your faith? Does God really need defending? I think it’s always better to love people into God’s arms, rather than driving them away with menacing words, fire and brimstone. But, that’s just my opinion, based on my own experience.

 

[Bennie_P]

If that’s the case, then that “seed of truth” would ultimately lead people to seek “the fullness of Christ’s love,” would it not? Do Christians not realize that their defensiveness against other faiths only pushes people away? Personally, I think it’s better to build bridges rather than burn them. Christians should serve as an example of God’s love on earth-- and I think the real ones do.

Perhaps I’m being judgemental as well, but I can spot a real Christian from 10 yards away. It’s easy to see through their motives. Some are flashy, sporting Christian clothing and jewelry, wanting everyone to know they’re Christian. Others have a false piety, clearly just trying to earn brownie points in heaven. But the real ones take my breath away. **They’re unassuming to the untrained eye. They don’t seek attention, they don’t broadcast their beliefs or their good deeds. They just live a life that would make Jesus proud. They’re very rare indeed. **

These are the Christians that make people want to convert– not the ones who loudly proclaim how wrong the “false” religions are, and seek to divide us along religous lines. Those people don’t even realize the harm they’re causing. Most non-Christians wouldn’t even consider converting to a religion that treats them like their enemy. Why not just let the “seed of Truth” guide them? Why do you feel that you need to defend your faith? Does God really need defending? I think it’s always better to love people into God’s arms, rather than driving them away with menacing words, fire and brimstone. But, that’s just my opinion, based on my own experience.

You know this thread is about “Christian” Unity.

I have forgotten how this dicussion got away from that, but in a forum expressing ideas on unity, disunity and etc is different from the way people live thier day to day lives interacting with people. And as I said in a earlier post, **We still must show respect and love for each other, otherwise that makes us hateful and judgemental. **

Saying that, I now say it is impossible for us to worship beside each other as you vision, for I don’t know about you, but I can worship only one God, - As to non-Christians I will love them, I will feed them, I will clothe them, I will care for them when they are ill, provide shelter for them when they are homeless, protect them from harm by others, but until we worship the same God, I can’t worship with them. It would show dis-respect to thier beliefs to say otherwise.

What you are talking about I haven’t a clue.

Love you, my prayers are for your happiness.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you all

I believe that the only way unity can be achieved is through God, prayer and the greatest commandments. All the laws of the Catholic Church must hang on these two commandments.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[paarsurrey]

I can’t think of a more beautiful dream than to have humanity, all as one, glorifying their Creator by whatever name they have given him. To have Muslims worshipping alongside Hindus, Christians along with pagans, without any hatred or animosity— all focused on the Divine, instead of their petty differences. Of course, it’s just a dream. Humanity has a long way to go before they can truly learn to love one another. But maybe someday, the Divine will enable humanity to unite as one, rather than be used by humanity as a scapegoat to justify bloodshed and hatred.

Hi
I think , I also have somewhat the same dream, while I am awake.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[paarsurrey]

Greetings and peace be with you all

I believe that the only way unity can be achieved is through God, prayer
In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

Hi
I agree with you.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[Katm]

Unity will be achieved when all Christians are more concerned about uniting in obedience to Jesus Christ and reject Satan.
Satan has two tools that are very effective.

1. Fear
2. Division
   As long as he can keep us nattering and picking at each other over differences in interpretation, it takes our eye off of the prize.
   I don’t know when unity will be achieved, but it can and will be so in His time.
   In the meantime, let us keep the faith, treat our brother Christians with love and respect, and give an example to non-Christians, so as the song says, " We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord, and we pray that our unity will one day be restored, and they’ll know we are Christians by our love."

 

[paarsurrey]

Unity will be achieved when

Hi
The Divine-Guide Promised in all revealed religion would come and initiate acievement of Unity through peaceful means and by convincing through reasonable and rational arguments not by compulsion in any case, winning souls and hearts. In fact the Divine-Guide has already come in the shape of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi, in my opinion.
I respect your religion.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Ahmadi ~ Islam is a heresy. When you renounce Islam and become a Roman Catholic, you will begin the process of Unity. Until you do that, you are just “talking” you are not “doing”. You say you believe in Unity? Then “put your money where your mouth is” and convert to the true religion.

Islam is a hodge podge of religions ~ part Judeo-Christian, part Pagan, and, presently, horribly violent at times ~ but it is NOT the religion of God. Jesus is God and He gave us the Path back to Heaven. Your first step towards the unity you say you seek is to follow the path that Jesus has laid out for you and all of humanity. He is waiting for you. Will you come to Him or will you continue to write platitudes?

Edited to remove duplicative words