How willing would you be to convert?

[seeker_of_God]

If you mean that God did exist, I suppose similar to most people, shock. Though I don’t think he would be popular - there is a lot of bad things in the world that he created, he is omnipotent, after all - people would want to know why, and the obvious question what is the point of all of this and why the need to be loved - your omnipotent, is that not enough? But then he would know what we all think anyway. May we live in interesting times - that would be something to see.

I don’t want to go off topic, but He didn’t create anything bad, and He doesn’t need our love and worship. But because are finite beings, God is our highest and final end, because in Him is all happiness and all good. If our end is anything else, then we can have no intrinsic, eternal happiness, and thus the idea of heaven and hell.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Good question. I’m not sure if you are directing it at me or Linux, but I’ll give my view.

Originally #34 was directed at you. When Linux replied I wrote #55 in response to him. But your reply is appreciated.

I consider myself to be a theist. I also am not absolutely convinced of this view. I am a theist because I think it is more probably true than atheism; I suppose that I’m sort of an “agnostic catholic” in the same way that many athiests are “agnostic atheists”.

Okay, I can follow that. But I still apply the same question I had raised in #34. If some one was presented with information that made them think that proposition A is more likely than mutually exclusive proposition B then could some one feel that A is more likely but still some how be a B-ist?

 

[aprilfloyd]

I don’t want to go off topic, but He didn’t create anything bad, and He doesn’t need our love and worship. But because are finite beings, God is our highest and final end, because in Him is all happiness and all good. If our end is anything else, then we can have no intrinsic, eternal happiness, and thus the idea of heaven and hell.

I thought He created everything?

If He does not need our love, why do priests etc always go on about it?

What are people worshipping when they go to places of worhsip?

Why can’t someone be happy without God - enforced happiness or happiness by decree - is not really happiness.

In my opinion,

 

[Linux]

Why can’t someone be happy without God - enforced happiness or happiness by decree - is not really happiness.

In my opinion,

People can have a kind of happiness without believing, but it does not completely fulfil our nature. If my father gives me a present without me knowing that its from my father, I can still enjoy the present (a kind of happiness in the form of physical pleasure), but there is an even greater fulfilling form of happiness involved in knowing and having a relationship with my father directly that cannot be achieved with presents alone.

Aquinas actually said that there is a kind of happiness worth pursuing in this life, but he disagreed that our natures can be ultimately fulfilled by physical experiences or pleasure alone. Perfect happiness and fulfilment can only be known through a giver of perfection or a perfect being. We call this God.

 

[aprilfloyd]

People can have a kind of happiness without believing, but it does not completely fulfil our nature. If my father gives me a present without me knowing that its from my father, I can still enjoy the present (a kind of happiness in the form of physical pleasure), but there is an even greater fulfilling form of happiness involved in knowing and having a relationship with my father directly that cannot be achieved with presents alone.

Aquinas actually said that there is a kind of happiness worth pursuing in this life, but he disagreed that our natures can be ultimately fulfilled by physical experiences or pleasure alone. Perfect happiness and fulfilment can only be known through a giver of perfection. We call this God.

Thanks for the post Linux. Being alive is quite fascinating, but how would one know this God?

I find life fascinating, but can’t make that leap to choosing a god. I can’t see the purpose or logic for doing that or if I just woke up one day and said ‘I believe in God A’, for example that that would change anything about me or my existence.

 

[Offdoodykcrn]

it isn’t just that you hear *that *someone has proof, you actually hear this proof and recognise its soundness.

I would not recognize the proof as sound. Even if this proof appears sound, I would doubt it’s veracity because I have personal experience to the contrary. It might be argued that my personal experience was somehow imagined, but it would be like saying that I only thought I loved my own child.

 

[seeker_of_God]

Thanks for the post Linux. Being alive is quite fascinating, but how would one know this God?

I find life fascinating, but can’t make that leap to choosing a god. I can’t see the purpose or logic for doing that or if I just woke up one day and said ‘I believe in God A’, for example that that would change anything about me or my existence.

All goodness comes from God. All that you do in your life that is good, has its root in God. All happiness you experience, has its source in God. The love you have for others has its source in God.

Choosing God, and of course His chosen way to reach Him (Christ, through the Church), doesn’t mean that you automatically have a wonderful life. We’re all called to carry our cross. But it does mean that you are given grace to become a better person. More than anything, it means that in the end, after your death, you will have chosen the Source of all things good, and thereby be in intimate communion with Him for all eternity.

 

[aprilfloyd]

All goodness comes from God. All that you do in your life that is good, has its root in God. All happiness you experience, has its source in God. The love you have for others has its source in God.

Choosing God, and of course His chosen way to reach Him (Christ, through the Church), doesn’t mean that you automatically have a wonderful life. We’re all called to carry our cross. But it does mean that you are given grace to become a better person. More than anything, it means that in the end, after your death, you will have chosen the Source of all things good, and thereby be in intimate communion with Him for all eternity.

How do you know this? I have mentioned on other posts other major religions don’t believe that Christ was the son of god. How do you know it to be true?

 

[seeker_of_God]

How do you know this? I have mentioned on other posts other major religions don’t believe that Christ was the son of god. How do you know it to be true?

When I was a child, I believed the only religion out there was Christianity. When I was ten years old, I was introduced to Wicca by my cousin, and thus began my nearly 15-year long journey to find truth. So, I know exactly what you are asking. I know anything you’d want to know about the New Age, the occult, ceremonial magic, witchcraft, Hinduism, Neo-Paganism, and the like.

My response depends in what capacity you are asking this. If philosophically, then I can say that with philosophically, we can reach the conclusion of monotheism. There are only a handful of monotheistic religions, so the natural question after that is what your response is to Christ — whether He was who he said He was, or whether He lied. That’s really the important question, if you believe in one God. But there’s no middle road with Christ; He was either a liar, or He is the Son of God and God Himself.

If you’re asking in a more mystical, spiritual way, then it’s harder to answer. I can’t point to one thing and say, “This is how I know.” I can point to the misery I experienced in the New Age and occult. I can point to the type of person it made me into — completely self-centered. I can point to the way I converted, almost as though it were against my will, as converting was the very last thing I ever wanted to do, yet I was compelled by an unstoppable force to convert. I can tell you how empty my experiences were in other religions, yet how fulfilled I am in the Catholic Church. But all of it is convincing to me, but not necessarily to you, because it was the way God led me down to get to this point. He has a very unique plan for each person, that is best for them.

My conversion was largely intellectual, and so I focus on that aspect. I realize intellectually that the Catholic Church teaches the truth, but there are also subjective components to that that aren’t very well expressed in a brief forum post.

 

[Love4All]

or one could show irrevocably that love is not identical to love and that God does not exist, in which case love would still exist.

And god isn’t identical to love. Love is God, but God is more than love. he is also a person, omnipotent, omnipresent, etc, and love is not. (At least, we have no way of knowing if love as we experiencee it has any of these qualities.)

Well, I have not heard it said so much that love is God as that God is Love. So it seems to me God is a subset of love, in other words there are loves that are not God — for example the love of vice — but there is no God who is not Love.

On the other hand, I have no way of limiting, in theory, the power of love in general, at least real love, as a power. Love, to me, is the power of giving oneself. If that power is reciprocated, and multiplied by its expansion, and if it grows stronger with its use, then I see no reason to believe it could not quickly take over the world in its omnipotence, if Love decided that it was time for it. I’m certainly looking forward to the day, and have been for some time now.

Now if God is Love, and Love is the power of giving oneself, and I have that power (I do) then I have the power of Love, and if the power of Love, then I have Love, and if I have Love, then it is not possible for Love not to exist. That is my take on it. If there is no great Lover in the Sky waiting to greet me after my life is over, well so what? I have love, now, and that is enough. If it were not already true that God is Love, it would probably go that we would deify Love and call it God eventually. That isn’t how it happened historically, but it could have. Maybe in some alternate world.

Or maybe it is happening now. But John did write that many centuries ago.

 

[zro_x]

Originally #34 was directed at you. When Linux replied I wrote #55 in response to him. But your reply is appreciated.

Okay, I can follow that. But I still apply the same question I had raised in #34. If some one was presented with information that made them think that proposition A is more likely than mutually exclusive proposition B then could some one feel that A is more likely but still some how be a B-ist?

for the purposes of this poll, no. At least, I can’t think of any situations where that would be the case. desiring B to be true while believing A is more probably true then B, would make that person an A-ist for the purposes of this poll.

sorry I didn’t answer you earlier; I didn’t quite know what you were asking.