How would a Catholic respond to this verse of the Bible?

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“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth” (I Timothy 4:1-3). Im not saying anything about it. But how would one use defense against it if a Protestant told the Catholic Church stopped a long time ago and they use this verse. And also can you help me understand the abstain of meat and marriage part? Thanks!
 
JD27076 said:
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth” (I Timothy 4:1-3). Im not saying anything about it. But how would one use defense against it if a Protestant told the Catholic Church stopped a long time ago and they use this verse. And also can you help me understand the abstain of meat and marriage part? Thanks!
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The Sacrement of marriage is Catholic Doctine. Should one review the debates of Luther and Erasmus, the point Erasmus made was the reformation would directly assault the FAMILY. And what happened from then to 2011? Just look at the family today in the US?

There has been NO stronger advocate of the family is History than the Catholic Church.

Peace
 
JD27076 said:
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth” (I Timothy 4:1-3). Im not saying anything about it. But how would one use defense against it if a Protestant told the Catholic Church stopped a long time ago and they use this verse. And also can you help me understand the abstain of meat and marriage part? Thanks!
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First of all the Catholic Church does not forbid marriage but rather highly encourages marriage and the family and is its first defender. If you are speaking of celibacy for religious reasons, no one is forced to become a priest or a nun. So the Church never forbids anyone to marry. It is a choice made by those who choose that vocation. In fact, celibacy is a statement about the sanctity and beauty of marriage. The sacrifice inherent in celibacy is directly related to the importance marriage holds in the Catholic Church. If marriage weren’t a big deal, neither would the sacrifice be a big deal.

As for abstaining from certain foods we are not speaking of abstaining from food because there is something inherently wrong with eating that food. The Church rightly encourages fasting during certain liturgical seasons such as Lent. Christ himself fasted on more than several occasions. It is an act of self denial and is very biblical. The fasting in which most Catholics participate is not even close to true fasting. I always get a kick out of the Knights of Columbus fish fries during lent so that people can fast from meat. You walk in the door and see people gorging themselves on fried fish, french fries, coleslaw and hush puppies. I had to stop going because I felt like a hypocrite. Bread and water work much better.
 
An example of the “forbidding to marry” is the Manichean heresy St. Augustine fought against. We have been in the “end times” for nearly 2000 years and there has been endless struggle between the Church and the World. The Catholic Church has never forbid marrying or meat.

She does select her priests from the permanently celibate (this is vastly different from “forbidding marriage” - each priest had the choice to marry, instead). Certain days during Lent, she asks all her people to abstain from meat as a form of communal penance (again, this is not “forbidding food” - we can eat meat every other day of the year).
 
JD27076 said:
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth” (I Timothy 4:1-3). Im not saying anything about it. But how would one use defense against it if a Protestant told the Catholic Church stopped a long time ago and they use this verse. And also can you help me understand the abstain of meat and marriage part? Thanks!
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Sex and all kinds of nutritious food are good, provided you use them according to the natural law. That is why it is fitting to give up some of these good things temporarily as a part of spiritual discipline. In the biblical times it is customary to rejoice through feasting on meat and wine, that is why meat is an example of a good which satisfies basic physical desire. Spiritual discipline involves mastering our physical desires. If meat is given up in that context, towards cultivating spiritual discipline, then we read the canon law correctly. Daniel abstained for three weeks (Daniel 10:1-3). Certainly, he was not then practising the “doctrine of demons”. And Paul was certainly not against abstaining from meat (1 Cor 8:13), what he was against was a false doctrine that says there is an intrinsic evil in a good that God made.
 
Something to consider. . .

You have a lot of people who are vegetarians and vegans.
You have a lot of people who go after all sorts of specific diets. . .some to gain weight, some to lose, some for medical conditions, etc.

And you have a lot of people who mortify themselves (rigorous workouts).

And you have people who are celibate for all kinds of reasons.

And you have my favorite hippies and neohippies who live together but REFUSE to marry because their love isn’t ‘hostage to a piece of paper’ etc.

You have Muslims who fast for a whole month for heavens sake. . .

and the Orthodox whose fasting for Lent and Advent puts the Catholics (Latin) to shame because they are much more thorough and stringent.

I wonder why people single out Latin Rite Catholics with these verses and ignore the millions of others who abstain from all kinds of foods and forbid marrying and ‘mortify the flesh’ etc. . .
 
This verse is against forbidding people to marry as a whole. Paul says it’s better for a man not to marry so he can focus more on God, and this is where priesthood bases its celibacy off of.

God bless :byzsoc:

David
 
It sounds to me that he is thinking especially about dualism in its various forms.
 
JD27076 said:
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth” (I Timothy 4:1-3). Im not saying anything about it. But how would one use defense against it if a Protestant told the Catholic Church stopped a long time ago and they use this verse. And also can you help me understand the abstain of meat and marriage part? Thanks!
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Father Mitch Paqua stated that this verse actually was speaking of certain groups at that time period . ANd the verse implies that the group forbids anyone to marry . That is simply not the case in the church . Its like the verse protestants use for priests needing to be married . The verse states that the Bishop should be married only once . They interpet it to be that Bishops need to be married .The way to interpret it of course is that if the Bishop is going to be married he can only marry once . Big difference .(1Timothy 3:2 is the verse I am speaking of about BIshop and marriage)
 
JD27076 said:
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth” (I Timothy 4:1-3). Im not saying anything about it. But how would one use defense against it if a Protestant told the Catholic Church stopped a long time ago and they use this verse. And also can you help me understand the abstain of meat and marriage part? Thanks!
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This is not true,The Catholic Church has never forbidden two adults in good standing, who understand what marriage is to marry. In the case of Priests and Nuns,St. Paul stated also that it is good for a person to remain single to devote oneself to God’s works. This is a displine of RCC. No one is ever forced to become a Priest or Nun.
The only tine the Church would deny marriage is when a couple should not be married for numerous reasons (age, mental state, previous martial situation, a non conforming non-catholic ie refuse to allow children to be raised Catholic and any reasonable reason why these two should not be joined in Marriage)

Abstaining from meat on certain days is also a disipline. No one said we can’t eat meat.

But if one would stand back and look at the secular world today,
Marriage-is joke, people change parnters, engage in all types of immoral behaviors, people treat marriage as if it doesn’t matter.
In fact,the only people “the world” encourage to marry lately are the gays.

Vegitarians-nothing wrong with this, UNLESS, they push their views on to you. It has gotten worse in recent years when one is made to feel guilty going to KFC, because a chicken had to be killed, In the beginning God gave man domainance over the plants and animals

This is the beginning of what St. Paul is talking about the world today are making their rules. One must not live for this world but for Christ.
 
Several reasons why that verse is not a condemnation of Catholicism or Asceticism. One, the title of the section is False Asceticism, which implies a ‘true asceticism’. If you are thinking of debating with non Catholics, terms of logic may not get you very far; but nevertheless, those ‘demonic instructions’ 1 Timothy refers to are called ‘hypocrisy’ in the true translation of this passage. Hypocrisy means that they are professed and not believed. Hence they are made in the spirit of lie, which is in this case is likely exaggeration of their true place in a balanced doctrine. Jesus didn’t marry. How would your your detractors respond to that?

The passage also says that “some” will turn away by “paying attention” to “deceitful spirits”. It is the nature of evil to distort even the truth, if that were possible. For me this passage effectively dilutes the evil poison of lie just enough so that it can be recognized as deceitful without causing its human recipients any harm: It really opens our eyes and gustatory senses to the true taste of the truth, which is deepened by rejection of the evil we hear.

There is nothing worse than a truth told as if it were a lie to an unwitting person. That kind of perversion is real evil darkness, masquerading as light. The kind of temptation Christ must have faced in the desert where he fasted for 40 days before his encounters with Satan.

Perhaps the folly of these people in “the last days” who will fall from faith is in putting so much credence in those with “branded consciences”; presumably meaning that their falsity is marked on their very manner of being and thinking so as to be an obvious warning of their subscription to demonic instructions which are distortions of a truly liberating practice reserved for special people, asceticism.

As the scripture based adage goes: “Even the devil can quote scripture.”
Your detractors have apparently perfected that art in falsity if they have convinced you there is anything wrong with imitating Jesus in the desert.
 
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