How would a "Catholic town" differ from any other town surrounding it?

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GregoryPalamas:
Bill,

Perhaps I’m missing something. You seem rather hostile to this plan and I don’t understand why.
My hostility stems entirely from the effort to use the force of law to enforce Catholic doctrine on Americans who do not wish to be subject to Catholic Doctrine.

Make no mistake, this isn’t about these people regulating themselves. If they were simply trying to do that, they wouldn’t need the law on their side.

In America today no one is forced to act against their Catholic principals. No one is required to view pornography, abort their pregnancy, practice ABC, divorce their spouses, remarry after a divorce or work on the Sabbath. Why do those folks want a law? So other people, people who aren’t Catholic, won’t be able to legally do those things.

Do you want to get a group of people who want to live together strictly according to Catholic Doctrine? OUTSTANDING! I’ll even contribute financially to such an endeavor.

But the INSTANT that effort crosses over from being a voluntary association to one that tries to use the force of law to enforce their beliefs, as Mr. Monaghan’s plan appeared to, they irretrievably lose my support and violate the Constitution of the US.

Simply put I don’t believe in, will not support and will do everything I can to prevent a “Catholic Taliban” in the US.
 
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BillP:
My hostility stems entirely from the effort to use the force of law to enforce Catholic doctrine on Americans who do not wish to be subject to Catholic Doctrine.

Make no mistake, this isn’t about these people regulating themselves. If they were simply trying to do that, they wouldn’t need the law on their side.

In America today no one is forced to act against their Catholic principals. No one is required to view pornography, abort their pregnancy, practice ABC, divorce their spouses, remarry after a divorce or work on the Sabbath. Why do those folks want a law? So other people, people who aren’t Catholic, won’t be able to legally do those things.

Do you want to get a group of people who want to live together strictly according to Catholic Doctrine? OUTSTANDING! I’ll even contribute financially to such an endeavor.

But the INSTANT that effort crosses over from being a voluntary association to one that tries to use the force of law to enforce their beliefs, as Mr. Monaghan’s plan appeared to, they irretrievably lose my support and violate the Constitution of the US.

Simply put I don’t believe in, will not support and will do everything I can to prevent a “Catholic Taliban” in the US.
Do you have the same opposition to the Amish communities? Just wondering.
 
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jennifer101:
Do you have the same opposition to the Amish communities? Just wondering.
Sure, if the Amish were trying to impose their religious beliefs on others, by say, attempting to pass legislation banning automobiles from their town or county. However, I am unaware of any Amish attempts to form political a unit such as a town, city or county and impose their version of morality with the force of law.
 
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BillP:
Sure, if the Amish were trying to impose their religious beliefs on others, by say, attempting to pass legislation banning automobiles from their town or county. However, I am unaware of any Amish attempts to form political a unit such as a town, city or county and impose their version of morality with the force of law.
I’m unaware that Monaghan intends to enforce a Catholic Monarchy upon the country. I still don’t understand your hostility. The majority of Fla will still be part of a non-Catholic entity. If we do move to Ave Maria I promise not to send out any SS or KGB out to get you.

CDL
 
I have just read about a catholic town being built in Florida. You can read about it at Avemaria.com. It is very interesting. The ACLU has nosed in though, and there may be problems with having it an all-catholic town. Anyway, it sounds great. Several years ago I heard about an all catholic community in Arkansas. I haven’t heard anything about it for years and don’t know how successful it was.
 
I like the idea of business being run with Catholic morals. That would mean no sweat-shop business deals, more of a fair trade kind of thing.
 
Are there other Catholic towns being created in the US besides Ave Maria? The hot Florida weather and hurricanes would be hard to endure. As long as the residents & officials are kind about the rules (firmly enforcing them but not being a stickler) I think it would be absolutely wonderful to live in a Catholic town. It sounds beautiful. Smiles I could imagine hearing the church bells every day, calling everyone to mass… 🙂
 
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BillP:
My hostility stems entirely from the effort to use the force of law to enforce Catholic doctrine on Americans who do not wish to be subject to Catholic Doctrine.

Make no mistake, this isn’t about these people regulating themselves. If they were simply trying to do that, they wouldn’t need the law on their side.

In America today no one is forced to act against their Catholic principals. No one is required to view pornography, abort their pregnancy, practice ABC, divorce their spouses, remarry after a divorce or work on the Sabbath. Why do those folks want a law? So other people, people who aren’t Catholic, won’t be able to legally do those things.

Do you want to get a group of people who want to live together strictly according to Catholic Doctrine? OUTSTANDING! I’ll even contribute financially to such an endeavor.

But the INSTANT that effort crosses over from being a voluntary association to one that tries to use the force of law to enforce their beliefs, as Mr. Monaghan’s plan appeared to, they irretrievably lose my support and violate the Constitution of the US.

Simply put I don’t believe in, will not support and will do everything I can to prevent a “Catholic Taliban” in the US.
I am not a citizen of the USA, but I am Catholic. I take exception to your comments because I believe that you are misrepresenting the constitutional rights of a group of people when it comes to determining their own self-governance.

It is the ACLU that is so dysfunctional that they are in fact a blight upon the Constitution of the USA. They are the ones who have been sponsoring every effort to destroy the Christian religion.

I suspect that there are non-Catholics who would be prepared to live in such a town, in peaceful coexistence with their fellow Christians because they would be offered perhaps something that is available nowhere else.

Catholic Taliban? I think not. What about the Fundamentalist colleges where the young men and women are not allowed to date together without a chaperone? Care to comment, or is the hostility just reserved for the Catholic population alone?

Pharmacies should have the right not to stock the “bill”, the “morning after pill” and other forms of artificial contraception if that is their choice. If women want these things then let them travel to the next town or some other place to buy them, but they have no right to force their ideas on the rest of the population who are in fact offended by the free and easy sex that such women practice.

If a pair of homosexuals want to live together then let them go elsewhere, amongst their own kind, and preferably somewhere like a leper colony where they can practice their filthy habits in secret, and they can reap the whirlwind of the disease that follows indulgence in sexual sin.

Give me a good reason why pornography should be so freely available. The dissemination of such material has done zip for the well being of the population. So why insist that this material be foisted upon a community where it is not wanted?

I could go on as to what is wrong in your comments, but you would ignore what I have to say because you are too far gone in believing that others who are not Catholic, might want to live the same way. Think again, for there are many who desire such a set up. Why should it be denied in the guise of somehow being against the first amendment.

The ACLU has for years misled Americans about the meaning of separation of Church and State. It is about time that the Christian community as a whole hit back and put the ACLU back in its place as a grubby dysfunctional group of communists.
 
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La-Petite-Fleur:
Are there other Catholic towns being created in the US besides Ave Maria? The hot Florida weather and hurricanes would be hard to endure. As long as the residents & officials are kind about the rules (firmly enforcing them but not being a stickler) I think it would be absolutely wonderful to live in a Catholic town. It sounds beautiful. Smiles I could imagine hearing the church bells every day, calling everyone to mass… 🙂
Actually, there is a place in Arkansas called Star of the Sea Village

Star of the Sea Village
 
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MaggieOH:
I am not a citizen of the USA, but I am Catholic. I take exception to your comments because I believe that you are misrepresenting the constitutional rights of a group of people when it comes to determining their own self-governance.
Maybe its an American thing. We have a set of Amendments to our Constitution, the first of which is that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

It simply isn’t permitted to impose ANY form of religion using the force of law. Period. Not at the Federal level, not at the state level, not at the county level, not at the township level.

On the other hand, Mr. Monaghan’s people are free to practice whatever religion they wish, in whatever way they wish. What they can’t do is pass laws requiring other people to observe follow their religious practices.
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MaggieOH:
It is the ACLU that is so dysfunctional that they are in fact a blight upon the Constitution of the USA. They are the ones who have been sponsoring every effort to destroy the Christian religion.
This is a serious mischaracterization of the ACLU, you should take some time to educate yourself on the organization and what it stands for. I’ve been a card carrying member for several years and fully support their work. They have never to my knowledge filed suit or attempted to interfere with any **individual’s ** right to practice his religion. They have filed innumerable law suits to prevent violations of the 1st Amendment by governments, mostly state and local governments who haven’t quite got the word yet. A recent example here in Georgia. In the 1970’s Ga passed a law excempting the sales of the Holy Bible from sales tax. Nobody really cared all that much. This year a group of non-Christian clergy asked the State legislature to extend that tax break to ALL religious scripture, e.g. the Quran and the Bhagavad Gita. The state legislature refused and the ACLU filed suit, as they should have.

When the government reats one religion preferentially oppression and tyranny result. Look at the 30 Years War, the Inquisition (don’t tell me that wasn’t the Church or that only a few people died, I don’t care. fact is people were killed because they wouldn’t abjure their religion. One is too many), the Salem Witch trials, the anti-Catholic Penal Laws in Great Britain. Even the early Christian martyrs killed by the Roman’s for not practicing the official state religion. I’ll tell you what
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MaggieOH:
Catholic Taliban? I think not. What about the Fundamentalist colleges where the young men and women are not allowed to date together without a chaperone? Care to comment, or is the hostility just reserved for the Catholic population alone?
Read the message above. I am a Catholci. My “hostility” is reserved for ANYONE using the force of law to impose their religious beliefs on another person. Period.

Does your fundamentalist college have the force of law? No? Then I don’t care what they do they have the right to act however they wish. Are they Govrnemnt supported? Then we might have a problem. As I recall Bob Jones University didn’t get in trouble for their chaperone requirement, but for their prohibition on inter-racial dating.
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MaggieOH:
Pharmacies should have the right not to stock the “bill”, the “morning after pill” and other forms of artificial contraception if that is their choice.
I’ll freely concede that the pharmacy has the right to decide not to stock these items. In fact that is Mr. Monaghan’s “clarified” position. They are going to “ask” or “suggest” that pharmacies not stock the products.

What I have an issue with is passing a law that says they can’t stock them. Which was the fiorst thing Mr. Monaghan said, before he started back-tracking.

Cont’d
 
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MaggieOH:
If women want these things then let them travel to the next town or some other place to buy them, but they have no right to force their ideas on the rest of the population who are in fact offended by the free and easy sex that such women practice.
How on earth does ensuring access to ABC constitute “forcing their ideas” on the rest of the population? Do you fell compelled to practice ABC because it is available in pharmacies?

You seem to be offended by people (especially women) having sex in a “free and easy” way? Why? What right do you have to be offended by actions that don’t effect you one away or another?

So you think you should be able to prohibit ABC so that women can’t offend you by having “free and easy” sex? is that your position? Please!
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MaggieOH:
If a pair of homosexuals want to live together then let them go elsewhere, amongst their own kind, and preferably somewhere like a leper colony where they can practice their filthy habits in secret, and they can reap the whirlwind of the disease that follows indulgence in sexual sin.
You have no right to tell these Children of God where or how they shoudl live. The Church calls us to treat them with love and compassion, not force them into ghettos, or “leper colonies”
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MaggieOH:
Give me a good reason why pornography should be so freely available.
Because having it available does less harm than the censorship of legitimate speech which inevitably results when someone gets to “choose” what other people can see. Who gets to define “pornography”? You? Given your attitudes on “free and easy” sex I think I’ll pass and select someone else.
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MaggieOH:
So why insist that this material be foisted upon a community where it is not wanted?
This seems to be a recurring theme with you. You know just because something exists you aren’t compelled to access it. This isn’t 1984, not everything forbidden is compulsory. If you don’t like it (I don’t) don’t purchase it. See, problem solved.
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MaggieOH:
but you would ignore what I have to say because you are too far gone in believing that others who are not Catholic, might want to live the same way.
There’s a nice personal attack. You jumped to several unwarranted and factually incorrect, conclusions about my motives, values and judgements. I am simply against anyone being forced to live in a wasy they don’t want to live. I am for preventing ANY government from imposing ANY religion on an un-consenting person. Period.

As far as ignoring you, well, I just took the last 45 minutes explaining my reasoning and values…
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MaggieOH:
The ACLU has for years misled Americans about the meaning of separation of Church and State. It is about time that the Christian community as a whole hit back and put the ACLU back in its place as a grubby dysfunctional group of communists.
Well, here is another carefully reasoned assertion. So now I’m a “grubby dysfunctional communist”. As I said you need to educate yourself about thge ACLU. By the way, the courts have largely agreed with the ACLU interpretation. The ACLU doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

Tell you what. Let’s make a friendly wager. You take 7 days and find one case where the ACLU acted to restrict an individual from practicing his or her religion as a private person, and I’ll donate $50 to this forum. If you can’t find one case in a week, you make the $50 donation. Want to put your mnoney where your keyboard is?
 
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GregoryPalamas:
I’m unaware that Monaghan intends to enforce a Catholic Monarchy upon the country. I still don’t understand your hostility. The majority of Fla will still be part of a non-Catholic entity. If we do move to Ave Maria I promise not to send out any SS or KGB out to get you.
CDL
It’s not me I’m worried about, being Catholic and all.

My concern is where this ends. The vast majority of Christians in virtually every political subdivision in the US are protestant Chirstians of one flavor or another. What happens when they decide to do the same thing? They won’t be restricted to one little town in Florida.

Even now a bunch of fundamentalists are trying to turn the entire state of South Carolina into a evangelical theocracy. How do you think this crowd is goign to feel about Catholics? These are the same people who support Jack Chick and his tracts.

Catholics represent 24% of the population of the country. Do you want to see us restricted to 12 states?

**If we use the law to force others to follow Catholic morality, then others can use it to make us follow their version. **
 
BillP,

I’ll only add this, you apparently are Completely Misinformed about what the U.S. Constitution allows and doesn’t allow free citizens to do. I’m going to assume that you’ve “learned” about the Constitution from the ACLU and that accounts for you being so far in left field. (pardon the pun).

If you go back and Read the true history (as opposed to revisionist history) regarding the Founding Fathers and WHY they wanted a Free and Separate country from England, you may begin to understand why it is that a few of like-minded types would like the freedom to pursue their religious beliefs WITHOUT government interference.

Religious people have the right to the “free exercise of their religion” WITHOUT government interference. That clause was set up to protect an individuals right to practice their religion. It was not set up to “protect the government” from religious people, who would no doubt create further laws that this country was founded on.

Also, while you’re researching – if you dare, you’ll notice that almost all of the colonial states had a “state religion”. Yeah, no kidding. They separated themselves from each other almost exclusively because of differing religious beliefs. Mary-land was the Catholic state, and so on…
 
Originally, this thread was not supposed to include discussion about the ACLU and their running interference to Christians governing themselves, as our U.S. Constitution not only allows but protects.

There is another thread on Catholic towns dealing directly with the ACLU’s objections, etc…

This thread was supposed to be focused on Catholics having the opportunity to express their “dreams” or even “misgivings or shortcomings” when it comes to a Catholic town environment.

I would hope it would continue with it’s original purpose. Others who wish to discuss the ACLU should go to the first thread which was introduced with ACLU mention in the title.

Thanks.
 
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seabird3579:
I would hope it would continue with it’s original purpose. Others who wish to discuss the ACLU should go to the first thread which was introduced with ACLU mention in the title.

Thanks.
Which is it?

Do you not want to discuss the ACLU and religious freedom? or do you?

I am confused because of this post:
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seabird3579:
BillP,

I’ll only add this, you apparently are Completely Misinformed about what the U.S. Constitution allows and doesn’t allow free citizens to do. I’m going to assume that you’ve “learned” about the Constitution from the ACLU and that accounts for you being so far in left field. (pardon the pun).

If you go back and Read the true history (as opposed to revisionist history) regarding the Founding Fathers and WHY they wanted a Free and Separate country from England, you may begin to understand why it is that a few of like-minded types would like the freedom to pursue their religious beliefs WITHOUT government interference.

Religious people have the right to the “free exercise of their religion” WITHOUT government interference. That clause was set up to protect an individuals right to practice their religion. It was not set up to “protect the government” from religious people, who would no doubt create further laws that this country was founded on.

Also, while you’re researching – if you dare, you’ll notice that almost all of the colonial states had a “state religion”. Yeah, no kidding. They separated themselves from each other almost exclusively because of differing religious beliefs. Mary-land was the Catholic state, and so on…
or are YOU the only person who gets to have their views upon the issue made known?
 
According to the website for Ave Maria, FL, the founder wanted it to not sell b c pills, not have any abortion mills, not sell porn and in general have good family values. The ACLU said that was discriminatory and I think the matter is up in the air at this time from what I read. I disagree with the ACLU. It is/was to be a catholic town and had not previously existed. Only those who want to live as catholics would want to move there, so I don’t see how it could harm anyone who didn’t live there. There’s a catholic university there.

I don’t know if there are any other catholic towns. I can’t find any through a search, so far. I read about one in AR some years ago in a catholic paper. The Ave Maria town was to accomodate 11,000 people and open in 2007. They already have several people saying they will move there. It sounds like a nice, family oriented town with lots of parks and people would do a lot of walking and riding bikes.
 
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BillP:
Which is it?

Do you not want to discuss the ACLU and religious freedom? or do you?
The ACLU discussion is on another thread related to Catholic towns, those who began talking about it here did not thoroughly read the First post which differentiated them.

There are several threads dealing with the subject of Catholic towns, this one is not supposed to be focused on the ACLU, the others may be. You’ll have to check them out.
 
I really like your idea for a Catholic town. It is certainly a good topic for a catholic forum.
 
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peppy:
According to the website for Ave Maria, FL, the founder wanted it to not sell b c pills, not have any abortion mills, not sell porn and in general have good family values. The ACLU said that was discriminatory and I think the matter is up in the air at this time from what I read. I disagree with the ACLU. It is/was to be a catholic town and had not previously existed. Only those who want to live as catholics would want to move there, so I don’t see how it could harm anyone who didn’t live there. There’s a catholic university there.

I don’t know if there are any other catholic towns. I can’t find any through a search, so far. I read about one in AR some years ago in a catholic paper. The Ave Maria town was to accomodate 11,000 people and open in 2007. They already have several people saying they will move there. It sounds like a nice, family oriented town with lots of parks and people would do a lot of walking and riding bikes.
peppy,

no offense but the Ave Maria catholic town is on another thread dealing with the ACLU and their issues.

This thread is for those who want to discuss the “charter” of possible Catholic towns, leaving the ACLU out of it. It’s pretty obvious that the ACLU will stick their nose in any business having to do with religious freedom, however, this thread is leaving their issues out.

If you do a search, you will find what probably was the first thread on this subject and it mentions the ACLU in the title, that’s the one you want to post your issues with ACLU on. Thanks.
 
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peppy:
I really like your idea for a Catholic town. It is certainly a good topic for a catholic forum.
Thanks, peppy, and if you’re not discussing ACLU issues and have any ideas regarding what a Catholic town should be comprised of…I would love to hear it.
 
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