How would I be able to approach my music director?

[CatholicZ09]

Okay, for a while now, I’ve always wanted to be a cantor at my church. I have been told by MANY people, including the organizer of my Youth Group that I have a really good strong and pleasant singing voice. I attend Mass every weekend at the early 8:30am Mass. Every week it’s the same lady who sings and I’m not the only one getting annoyed with this, most people are. This makes me wonder if they are in dire need of Cantors. I could offer to sing at 8:30. Our church recently published a “Ministries and Organizations” book for the church, and the requirements for a Cantor are: Cantors should have a basic knowledge of reading music, a strong singing voice, are required to participate with the choir at rehearsal preceeding your scheduled assignment, and must be able to practice with the organist as required to learn the music for other liturgical celebrations. I have recently learned how to read music last year (I play the piano), so that is NOT a problem for me. I tried singing some songs without accompaniments, and I practically did it perfectly, just by reading the music. The thing is, I’m scared to ask my music director. I am 14, getting confirmed this year, and am thinking of asking when I turn 15, or maybe AFTER I get confirmed (you have to be confirmed.) I’m afraid he’ll say I’m too young. In 5th grade, I joined my children’s choir, and I cantored, and I was told I was loud and clear for everyone to hear me - (this group wasn’t started by my music minister - it was by some lady.) I asked him one time, and he said I was too young. When should I ask him again?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I don’t know what the official age for cantoring is, but in my parish I haven’t seen anyone cantor that has not graduated from high school. There is also a requirement that the cantors have trained voices. Perhaps it might be a good idea for you to receive vocal training, you are not too young for that, and when the time comes, you will have that advantage.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Why not just talk with the choir director? Explain that you are interested in becoming a cantor some day and ask what the requirements are. Do you currently sing in the choir? That might be a good way of having the director hear your voice and also teach you whatever you need to learn.

 

[Cluny]

You’ve not said whether you’re a boy or a girl.

ALL teen-age voices change; while a girl’s voice doesn’t change range as much as a boy’s, there is a definite change in quality from a child’s to a woman’s voice.

Maybe the music director feels that your voice has not stabilized yet? Have you been attending rehearsals for the 8:30 mass?

 

[fultonfish]

Volunteer to help out as a fill-in if someone is on vacation, etc. And as a volunteer with all the different choirs. Or volunteer to start a choir with teenagers. Be everywhere as a volunteer.

Once folks get comfortable with you, they are more likely to consider you for other positions, such as cantor.

Keep in mind that students often have study-related obligations.

But anyway most parishes depend on just a small handful of people who volunteer for everything. They are there all the time and the folks who run thing have learned from experience that if you want to get something done, ask someone who is incredibly busy. Probably because incredibly busy people know how to get things done.

 

[SMHW]

Do you have a choir in your parish? Are there any other young cantors?

My parish has an adult choir, a youth choir, and a children’s/junior high choir. In addition we have several cantors. We have have some high school age cantors and while I’m not sure of the current state of things we have had some junior high aged soloists who have acted as psalmists.

No self respecting music director will allow anyone to cantor unless he/she has some knowledge of the potential cantor’s talents (as well as any other qualifications). So somehow you need to present yourself to the music director. We here on CAF wouldn’t know how best to do that at your particular parish. It sounds like you already know some things required by your parish. But at some point you are probably going to have to just approach the music director and ask.

If you have a parish choir perhaps you could join the choir for the time between now and when you are confirmed. That would give you and the music director some time to get acquainted.

But I would caution you about suggesting you take over for someone else. There are all kinds of behind the scenes reasons why the woman who cantors at your 8:30 Mass is the only one.

 

[Sarabande]

Firstly, it is so wonderful that you are excited about sharing your gifts with your parish! Starting early is great practice and you’ll only get better and better as you continue to work hard and get experience.

I think you should ask again. In 5th grade you’re about 10 or 11, correct? He might have thought then that you were too young, but may think differently now that you are 14. I don’t think there is an actual limit on the age when one can begin to cantor. From what I’ve experienced, it all depends on what the music director or the pastor wants.

It doesn’t hurt to ask and see if he’ll at least audition you to test your voice, musicianship, maturity level, etc. I know that some music directors are sometimes hesitant of allowing younger cantors or even choir members because they are sure about the three things I mentioned above. They also want to be sure that there will be a steady commitment, especially since it appears that the requirements to be a cantor at your parish has many responsibilities than just cantoring a Sunday mass. Along with that, they need to see if you are able to lead the congregation well.

I wonder why there is only one cantor when there is a choir with other voices. Do you know whether or not the cantor position is a paid position? If it is a paid position, that may explain why you are only seeing one cantor. But usually a paid cantor is someone who is professionally trained and I don’t know what this cantor sounds like. The church where I currently cantor has two paid cantor positions for each mass. There are only two masses a weekend, so the other cantor and I split that, but we’re both classically trained musicians. I also substitute cantor at my own parish which only has one cantor position for 6 masses a weekend, plus all other special celebrations, where there is many, so she is basically there all weekend long and makes a decent living that way since she gives up her entire weekend - not a position I would want especially now that I’m starting a family and she is in a different point in her life to be able to do this. When she needs to take time off, I am hired to substitute for her.

The other reason why you might see her just at the 8:30 mass is because she is the only one who is willing to sing that early in the morning on Sunday. Most singers don’t like singing that early. So, if you pass the audition and he sees that you are willing to sing for an 8:30 mass, he might be thrilled about that. The cantor might also be happy about that as well to share the responsibility, because it can be a big one.

 

[Sarabande]

But I would caution you about suggesting you take over for someone else. There are all kinds of behind the scenes reasons why the woman who cantors at your 8:30 Mass is the only one.

This is very good advice. I do know that sometimes certain cantors, lectors, etc. can become very territorial with “their” mass. Not often, but once in a while there are nasty things that can happen behind the scenes when they “think” that someone is trying to push them out of their time slot. I know… extremely petty, but unfortunately, people are human and sometimes forget why they are volunteering their time at their parishes.

Maybe it would be best not to offer to sing the 8:30 mass, but just say that you are willing to cantor any mass the music director sees fit for you to do, especially since you will be the “newcomer”. Unfortunately, there is a lot of behind the scenes politics that you sometimes have to wade through. Believe me, I’ve been doing this since I was 15/16 and I’ve experienced it all. It’s worse with volunteer positions.

 

[MusicMan]

I think you’re talking to the wrong people.

I don’t know how big your community is, but I’m the public school district’s high school band director. I know all the town’s pastors, regardless of denomination. I know all the town’s pastoral musicians, regardless of denomination.

We regularly assist the parishes in getting their musically talented young people involved with pastoral music in their parishes. If a pastor calls me needing a vocalist, I can give him or her ten names without a thought.

Approach it the other way. Are you in Choir? Are you in Band? What kind of professional relationship do those teachers have with your parishes? Would one of them be able to give a fair assessment of your ability to lead the music at Mass? Perhaps you could talk to one of your music teachers and they could proceed on your behalf.

 

[Don9of11]

If you’re going to be 15 then I would ask your parents if its ok to join the choir, that is, if your church has a choir. If they approve, ask the music director and see if he/she will let you join the choir. Most choirs are eager for membership, especially someone of your caliber. Work you’re way up from there. Don’t be discouraged if you’re not allowed to cantor right off, keep your chin up. Sooner or later the music director will hear you and give the chance. When that time comes and it will, remember to pronounce your words.

 

[dconklin]

I would first become a regular member of the choir.

 

[CatholicZ09]

Firstly, it is so wonderful that you are excited about sharing your gifts with your parish! Starting early is great practice and you’ll only get better and better as you continue to work hard and get experience.

I think you should ask again. In 5th grade you’re about 10 or 11, correct? He might have thought then that you were too young, but may think differently now that you are 14. I don’t think there is an actual limit on the age when one can begin to cantor. From what I’ve experienced, it all depends on what the music director or the pastor wants.

It doesn’t hurt to ask and see if he’ll at least audition you to test your voice, musicianship, maturity level, etc. I know that some music directors are sometimes hesitant of allowing younger cantors or even choir members because they are sure about the three things I mentioned above. They also want to be sure that there will be a steady commitment, especially since it appears that the requirements to be a cantor at your parish has many responsibilities than just cantoring a Sunday mass. Along with that, they need to see if you are able to lead the congregation well.

I wonder why there is only one cantor when there is a choir with other voices. Do you know whether or not the cantor position is a paid position? If it is a paid position, that may explain why you are only seeing one cantor. But usually a paid cantor is someone who is professionally trained and I don’t know what this cantor sounds like. The church where I currently cantor has two paid cantor positions for each mass. There are only two masses a weekend, so the other cantor and I split that, but we’re both classically trained musicians. I also substitute cantor at my own parish which only has one cantor position for 6 masses a weekend, plus all other special celebrations, where there is many, so she is basically there all weekend long and makes a decent living that way since she gives up her entire weekend - not a position I would want especially now that I’m starting a family and she is in a different point in her life to be able to do this. When she needs to take time off, I am hired to substitute for her.

The other reason why you might see her just at the 8:30 mass is because she is the only one who is willing to sing that early in the morning on Sunday. Most singers don’t like singing that early. So, if you pass the audition and he sees that you are willing to sing for an 8:30 mass, he might be thrilled about that. The cantor might also be happy about that as well to share the responsibility, because it can be a big one.

You made some interesting points. However, the cantors at my church do not get paid. Also, my director doesn’t make you get singing lessons, either. I joined the choir when I was in 5th grade, but then dropped out because I had to do other things, and it was just in the way. There are 8 cantors at my church, the for the majority, at the 8:30 mass, it’s just that one lady. I was talking with another cantor who is always at 8:30 regularly like me, and I was like “He needs to schedule you sometime.” And she said “Yeah, I know, she’s hogging everything.” Apparently, from what they’ve seen, this lady who sings all the time has been sucking up to the music director and that is why she is always at the 8:30 mass singing. Many cantors are fed up with it. Also, she sings for ALL the funerals too. I was talking with other cantors, and they were saying they weren’t happy with it either. I just need to find a way to get “noticed” by my music director. I think I would be THRILLED to be a cantor.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

This is about how it is at my parish too. We have 3 choirs and several cantors. I do know that cantors are required to audition so that the music director can hear your voice and talk to you about your experience.

I like the idea of joining a choir to get to know the music director and become more comfortable with the requirements. You may also come across other opportunites to sing that you like better than cantoring. For example, there may be special music prepared for Advent services (other than Mass) or for stations and other services during Lent.

Do you have a choir in your parish? Are there any other young cantors?

My parish has an adult choir, a youth choir, and a children’s/junior high choir. In addition we have several cantors. We have have some high school age cantors and while I’m not sure of the current state of things we have had some junior high aged soloists who have acted as psalmists.

No self respecting music director will allow anyone to cantor unless he/she has some knowledge of the potential cantor’s talents (as well as any other qualifications). So somehow you need to present yourself to the music director. We here on CAF wouldn’t know how best to do that at your particular parish. It sounds like you already know some things required by your parish. But at some point you are probably going to have to just approach the music director and ask.

If you have a parish choir perhaps you could join the choir for the time between now and when you are confirmed. That would give you and the music director some time to get acquainted.

But I would caution you about suggesting you take over for someone else. There are all kinds of behind the scenes reasons why the woman who cantors at your 8:30 Mass is the only one.

 

[Don9of11]

You made some interesting points. However, the cantors at my church do not get paid. Also, my director doesn’t make you get singing lessons, either. I joined the choir when I was in 5th grade, but then dropped out because I had to do other things, and it was just in the way. There are 8 cantors at my church, the for the majority, at the 8:30 mass, it’s just that one lady. I was talking with another cantor who is always at 8:30 regularly like me, and I was like “He needs to schedule you sometime.” And she said “Yeah, I know, she’s hogging everything.” Apparently, from what they’ve seen, this lady who sings all the time has been sucking up to the music director and that is why she is always at the 8:30 mass singing. Many cantors are fed up with it. Also, she sings for ALL the funerals too. I was talking with other cantors, and they were saying they weren’t happy with it either. I just need to find a way to get “noticed” by my music director. I think I would be THRILLED to be a cantor.

My question would be how long has the lady that is the cantor been the cantor. Was she the cantor when there was no one else? Does your church only have one mass? Are you member of the choir now? It’s unlikely that you’ll ever be a cantor if you’re not a member of the choir. So the first thing to do is join the choir and work your way up. And ask yourself this question, if you were a cantor would you be available for a funeral or too busy with other stuff?

 

[Sarabande]

You made some interesting points. However, the cantors at my church do not get paid. Also, my director doesn’t make you get singing lessons, either. I joined the choir when I was in 5th grade, but then dropped out because I had to do other things, and it was just in the way. There are 8 cantors at my church, the for the majority, at the 8:30 mass, it’s just that one lady. I was talking with another cantor who is always at 8:30 regularly like me, and I was like “He needs to schedule you sometime.” And she said “Yeah, I know, she’s hogging everything.” Apparently, from what they’ve seen, this lady who sings all the time has been sucking up to the music director and that is why she is always at the 8:30 mass singing. Many cantors are fed up with it. Also, she sings for ALL the funerals too. I was talking with other cantors, and they were saying they weren’t happy with it either. I just need to find a way to get “noticed” by my music director. I think I would be THRILLED to be a cantor.

I see, the cantor positions are volunteer. So, it appears that there are many cantors available at your parish and this cantor doesn’t get rotated to other masses. Don9of11 brings up some good points and they are something to think about. Since I’m not part of the parish, don’t know the dynamics or the politics which are going on within the music program, I can’t say whether or not this particular cantor is sucking up or just being fortunate based on her history there.

Perhaps this cantor has been there for quite a while (maybe longer than most of the other cantors) and has “worked her way up”. She might also be extremely reliable, always being available when called to do something at the last minute, etc. That does make a difference to a music director when he/she knows that they won’t have to go scrambling to find a cantor for a funeral or some other event. I know for some of my director colleagues, they have stopped calling certain musicians if it appeared that those musicians weren’t available too often. Is she given all of the weddings as well, or are the cantors “auditioned” by the bridal couples?

In regards to funerals… funeral calls are usually last minute. You’re lucky if you get a week’s notice for them. I often get calls for them only two or three days in advance - sometimes a day in advance and I do funerals all around our diocese, and it’s pretty much the same in almost every parish with how they are planned. Doing them can entail about 3+ hours out of the morning from vocal warms-ups, reviewing the music, travel to the church, quick run-through with the organist or other musician, the funeral mass and then the travel from the church. Most funerals are during the week in the morning when the majority of people work a traditional job and people can’t leave their jobs for that long period of time especially in such short of notice. She might be always available due to her own situation with work or whatever it is, and perhaps some of these other cantors don’t have the schedule to allow them to be available at the drop of the hat. Again, many music directors are thrilled if they can have a go-to person who knows the music, sings or play well and can be available when called. Thus they’d rather call that person first before others who might have a 50/50 chance of being available.

To avoid too long of a post, I split my posts up…

 

[Sarabande]

I just need to find a way to get “noticed” by my music director. I think I would be THRILLED to be a cantor.

I think the best way to get “noticed” by the music director for your particular parish’s music ministry situation is to:

• Audition for and join the choir. Prepare a piece of sacred music that will exhibit your best abilities for the audition - mainly something that shows your vocal range so that he can see where to place you in the choir and also something that shows your musicianship. This is probably a place where you will have to work your way up. In the music world as in other work realms, there is such a thing called “paying your dues.” We, as musicians, all have to do it and we singers have almost always started out singing in choirs before we were recognized as able enough to take on the solos or the main roles.
• • Always be on time for rehearsal and mass, be eager and willing to give more time for rehearsals if required for special masses like Christmas or Easter.
• If possible, talk to your parents and see if you can take voice lessons from a good teacher. I know that it is not required at your parish, but it will help you with building a good, solid technique that will last and will also show to your director that you are serious about giving your best for God and for this music program. If he sees that you are working hard to become a better musician, as well as refining and improving your already natural gifts, he might be more willing to give you a chance to do more. I’ve been studying music since I was 4 and began my voice lessons at 13 3/4 haha!, continuing my studies through high school and college and am still refining my skills with a private voice teacher, which is not unusual for opera singers. When I was in my teens and college years, the music directors that I sang for as a volunteer cantor and chorister were often very willing to help give me solo experience because I worked extremely hard to hone my gifts. The other reason was because I approached what I did very humbly, which leads to a very important thing to remember…
• I give this advice to help you since you are just starting out. It is something my voice and piano teachers as well as my music mentors gave me through the years. Of course, it is important to have confidence your ability as a musician, otherwise it would be very difficult to get up in front of people do what you do. But always, always remember that this gift of yours, is just that - a gift from God. It is a gift that can be as easily taken away from you as it was given to you. One of the things that I’ve seen get in people’s way - especially with singers - is a person’s ego. We always have to keep it in check, especially when you do have many people complimenting you, hiring you and telling you how great you are/were. (PLEASE NOTE that I’m NOT saying this about you. You are just starting out and obviously have a natural talent, so it is something you will have to be aware of as time goes on.)

Number one thing to keep in mind is to keep God first in what you do musically. Try to remember to offer your singing up as a prayer. It definitely keeps one spiritually balanced. Those who are in charge will notice this. Believe me they will. Sometimes, it may take longer to get yourself “up there”, but it is totally and completely worth it.

 

[Sarabande]

There are 8 cantors at my church, the for the majority, at the 8:30 mass, it’s just that one lady. I was talking with another cantor who is always at 8:30 regularly like me, and I was like “He needs to schedule you sometime.” And she said “Yeah, I know, she’s hogging everything.” Apparently, from what they’ve seen, this lady who sings all the time has been sucking up to the music director and that is why she is always at the 8:30 mass singing. Many cantors are fed up with it. Also, she sings for ALL the funerals too. I was talking with other cantors, and they were saying they weren’t happy with it either.

One last piece of advice, which I think is also important especially in these volunteer positions:

Try to keep free from any kind of music politics or venting with other musicians in your place of work. When you get caught up in it, it will almost always bite you back right in the rear. When I work at a parish, whether or not it was volunteer or paid, I tried to keep as neutral as possible and they will try very hard to pull you into their “ring”. In parishes where there were singers (especially female singers) who were constantly vying for the solos or opportunities to cantor, there can be a lot of backbiting, gossip and downright cattiness. I actually hardly had any friends who were singers in my earlier years because I couldn’t trust most female singers in these situations. It’s where the ego totally took over these girls/women and they forgot about why they were singing. I also found that when one did finally get her “chance” to sing the solo or cantor - or got the principal role in an opera, etc. all those women would then turn on that one woman and then will talk about all the times that woman would say catty things behind the director’s or other singers’ backs. The music world is small, so these things almost always gets back to the person you are talking about.

I’m not saying that what you were hearing from certain cantors is just that - a bit of pettiness, cattiness, and ego-driven bitterness, but it is something you need to be aware of. Just do your best to keep out of it.

Anyway, I hope I’m not sounding like some sort of ninny, but I’m giving you this advice with love as someone who has worked in music ministry at many different parishes on both the volunteer and professional level, as well as someone who has been working professionally as a musician in the secular music world. I’ve always been grateful to my teachers and mentors for helping me out early on because I’ve seen too many of my colleagues who are of my age group get hurt and burned or caught up in all the gossip and drama because they either didn’t heed the advice or never learned it. They had to learn the hard way.