How would you define "full consent and knowledge"?

[dumbseeker]

I just posted a discussion and I asked a question in my reply. I think I’d better post another thread to discuss about it.

How would you define “full consent and knowledge”? It is kind of vague because sometimes we just can’t control ourselves to masturbate when we are driven by sex desire. Is that a mortal sin? What if we are driven by sex desire to have premarital sex and we can’t control ourselves? Is that a mortal sin? Since we can’t control ourselves, we don’t have fully consent of it… So?

 

[LilyM]

Anyone who’s been telling you that your sex drive, or your urge to masturbate, is uncontrollable has probably been feeding you a big steaming pile of the stuff that comes out of a horse’s rear end. I’m living proof that it can be controlled.

As for full consent - it means that if you are actually addicted, as in chemically or emotionally dependent upon having sex in a manner that could be verified by a psychologist who deals in addiction, you may have a point.

Or if the behaviour is uncontrollable such that if it was a crime a court wouldn’t find you guilty, then you might have a point.

What you’re talking about is most likely just plain old lust and the devil whispering sweet nothings in your ear. With God’s help you can control most anything, so unless your confessor or your counsellor tells you that you literally, in your circumstances, can’t control it, treat it as mortal sin.

 

[bilop]

I just posted a discussion and I asked a question in my reply. I think I’d better post another thread to discuss about it.

How would you define “full consent and knowledge”? It is kind of vague because sometimes we just can’t control ourselves to masturbate when we are driven by sex desire. Is that a mortal sin? What if we are driven by sex desire to have premarital sex and we can’t control ourselves? Is that a mortal sin? Since we can’t control ourselves, we don’t have fully consent of it… So?

It means you know it’s a sin, and you do it anyway, voluntarily.

Desire does not cancel consent. Masturbation and Fornication are mortal sins.

God Bless

 

[dumbseeker]

Anyone who’s been telling you that your sex drive, or your urge to masturbate, is uncontrollable has probably been feeding you a big steaming pile of the stuff that comes out of a horse’s rear end. I’m living proof that it can be controlled.

As for full consent - it means that if you are actually addicted, as in chemically or emotionally dependent upon having sex in a manner that could be verified by a psychologist who deals in addiction, you may have a point.

Or if the behaviour is uncontrollable such that if it was a crime a court wouldn’t find you guilty, then you might have a point.

What you’re talking about is most likely just plain old lust and the devil whispering sweet nothings in your ear. With God’s help you can control most anything, so unless your confessor or your counsellor tells you that you literally, in your circumstances, can’t control it, treat it as mortal sin.

Aren’t we all addicted to lust? So because of this addiction, can we be free from the mortal sin of premarital sex?

 

[LilyM]

Aren’t we all addicted to lust? So because of this addiction, can we be free from the mortal sin of premarital sex?

Short answer - heck no.

I can’t say I’m never tempted, but I can say temptations are rare for me, and that it’s much rarer still that I’d actually give in. Thus I’m not addicted, not by any definition of the term. To give in thus would definitely be mortal sin for me.

Strong and frequent temptation is not the same thing as addiction, and strong and frequent temptation won’t necessarily change a mortal sin into being venial either.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Anyone who’s been telling you that your sex drive, or your urge to masturbate, is uncontrollable has probably been feeding you a big steaming pile of the stuff that comes out of a horse’s rear end…

What you’re talking about is most likely just plain old lust and the devil whispering sweet nothings in your ear.

^^ These 2 quotes above are connected to each other.

Dear OP:
Remember the “other name” for the Devil: The Father of Lies. He can disguise lies as truth; he is the master manipulator & rationalizer. What we do when we’re in a state of mortal sin (such as sexual transgression/indulgence) is permit the action of the Devil upon our brains & hearts. The action of sanctifying grace clears our vision & exposes both our sin & the excusing lies for what they are.

A true compulsion (as opposed to a habit succumbed to because of weakened will) is less dependent on immediate stimuli, and more apt to be random, thoughtless, almost rote. A true repetitive compulsion would be a clinical situation. By contrast, typically masturbation leads to more of it because of the frequent association of arousal (external stimuli) with the act. That is not a compulsion but a sustained response which is likely to be perpetuated because of the absence of God’s grace to conquer it.

The deception/self-deception is that release will make the raging desires subside, when in fact acting upon stimulus or desire merely inflames the disposition to do it more. Rather, the cure is grace, which is possible only with sincere confession, prayer, & discipline. That is what will “make it go away.”

The Devil gives false comfort that it is “natural” and that climax will subdue further desire. It is natural to be tempted. But what is most natural is bonded sex with a legitimate partner. Sex with myself is an oxymoron, Woody Allen jokes aside. And an oxymoron, being a contradiction, cannot coexist with God, who is without contradiction.

Undoubtedly dozens of people on CAF, and millions throughout the world, do struggle or have struggled with masturbation. The struggle is universal, the inevitability of surrender to it is not. If you’re curious or troubled, I invite you to read many of the threads on this subject on the forums. There’s even a permanent thread (“Sticky”) about it on the main moral theology page. There is a lot of good advice that people have given to each other regarding this. The volume of words about it on CAF is evidence of its universality as (again) a temptation, not evidence that it is not sinful merely on account of its universality.

I wish you Christ’s peace and truth.