How would you go about proving God's existence to an atheist or agnostic?

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CHRISW

*Now then, if the God of Christianity exists (granted in this thread that is merely an “if”), and if the God of Christianity says faith is required before the power of God will be evidenced through us. Then we can uderstand that He can more fully use us as his instruments (by answering prayer requests, etc) when we have faith.
Thank you. This is very good.
 
I don’t want to start debating evolution, but I do want to point out that no Christian, even the most fundamentalist literalist denies that evoltion could occur after God has put things down in the first place. I suppose some do, but they are the exceptions. So when it comes to observing plants speciate and whatnot, nobody who disagrees with evolution has any problem with this. The disagreement is whether evolution took us all the way or only picked up once God already had everything going.

It’s loosely analogous to the water cycle. Nobody denies that evaporation and condensation and precipitation have occured as an ongoing process since God made the seas, rivers, and lakes. The only disagreement might be between one fellow who says God simply put all the water down on the earth in the seas and lakes and whatnot and another who says that God used to water cycle to fill the basins up in the first place.
 
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Lazerlike42:
I don’t want to start debating evolution, but I do want to point out that no Christian, even the most fundamentalist literalist denies that evoltion could occur after God has put things down in the first place. I suppose some do, but they are the exceptions.
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Really? Most of the Creationists I’ve spoken to adamantly maintain that it is impossible for one type of organism to change into another type over time.

I may have just been speaking to the exceptions, I suppose.
 
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SamCA:
Really? Most of the Creationists I’ve spoken to adamantly maintain that it is impossible for one type of organism to change into another type over time.

I may have just been speaking to the exceptions, I suppose.
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There may have been some miscommunication in those conversations, I suspect. There is a difference between a person saying they do not believe it happened, and saying is impossible. To assert “it did not happen” is not the same as saying “It is impossible”. The first is an opinion, the second is a claim that in my opinion requires proof.

This is very similar to the topic of atheism. There are those who say “God does not exist” as a matter of personal belief, a conclusion arrived at based on personal experiences, interpretation of evidences, or a percieved lack of evidence. Then there are those who say “God cannot exist”…a statement that in my opinion, shifts the burden of proof onto the atheist.

The two statements are different, albeit subtly.
 
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elwedriddsche:
I encounter heavy-handed moderation almost exclusively on religious forums, but there’s no monopoly…
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No disrespect ment. But why do you go onto religious forums unless you are seeking GOD?
 
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tossolul:
any suggestions, or is it not possible?
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Do agnostics or athiests believe in the possibility of an eternity where they may one day live? Or that humans may have a soul?

Or are these beliefs tied to God?
 
Hey,
Sorry I haven’t had a chance to respond to everyone I’ve wanted to lately. I’ve started a new job, and been sick as a dog this week. (That’s actually a lie, my dog has never been this sick as far as I can tell.) So, when I wasn’t drugging myself up to get through the day at work, I’ve been trying to get some sleep. I don’t want anyone to think I’m ignoring them. I’m starting to mend a little, and hope to have some responses soon, but for now I’m going back to bed. :sleep:

Ever
 
KathleenElsie

I’ve been thinking the same for a long time. As Augustine said, our hearts are restless until we rest in Him.

So perhaps the atheists are here because they are restless and looking for God at Catholic Answers. They have a lot of doubts to overcome, and I don’t know where they will find a better place to overcome them than here.

Even the ones who are here to defend atheism are taking a big risk that they will be won over … which may be precisely why they are here … they really want to be won over. The ones who don’t come here are not ready to take the risk because they are much more keen on rejecting God.

The ones who are here cannot possibly believe they are going to make converts to atheism. If that is their aim, they are truly wasting their time. God is too powerful and too present in this forum
 
Gilbert Keith:
Even the ones who are here to defend atheism are taking a big risk that they will be won over … which may be precisely why they are here … they really want to be won over. The ones who don’t come here are not ready to take the risk because they are much more keen on rejecting God.
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I am sure that is true for some people, but I don’t think it is necessarily the case for all. I go to forums of opposing beliefs occassionally, and do not feel my beliefs are at risk, nor that there is a chance I will be converted. Rather, I feel the need to know my beliefs are grounded in truth, and for me that means challenging myself by having dialogue with those who oppose my beliefs.

No matter what the motivation is of those who come here, I fail to see the benefit of calling them out on the carpet for their reasons. They know why they are here, so why question it? (even if it is based on a hope of converting others to their way of thinking). Our job is simply to present the best case for our beliefs.

In a thread titled like this one, there is an inferred open invitation for athiests and agnostics to join in the discussion. Should we expect them not to try to justify their beliefs?
Gilbert Keith:
The ones who are here cannot possibly believe they are going to make converts to atheism. If that is their aim, they are truly wasting their time. God is too powerful and too present in this forum
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Your motivations are good Gilbert, I am sure, but I fear statements like this will discourage them from coming here. If you are correct that they are at risk of being converted, I should think you would want them to come. (I do :o ).
 
Chris

Your motivations are good Gilbert, I am sure, but I fear statements like this will discourage them from coming here. If you are correct that they are at risk of being converted, I should think you would want them to come. (I do :o ).

I don’t agree. Nothing I’ve said will stop them from coming here.

And I do want them to come. God wants them to come even more.

And so they have come.
 
Gilbert Keith:
I don’t agree. Nothing I’ve said will stop them from coming here.

And I do want them to come. God wants them to come even more.

And so they have come.
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Fair enough.

Peace,
Chris W
 
mark a:
Do agnostics or athiests believe in the possibility of an eternity where they may one day live? Or that humans may have a soul?

Or are these beliefs tied to God?
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Mark

You are right. The problem of atheists is not God. Their problem is that they really believe that they, you, and all of us are just ANIMALS. Nex time they get sick, they should see a veterinarian.
 
The Eurasian:
The problem of atheists is not God. Their problem is that they really believe that they, you, and all of us are just ANIMALS. Nex time they get sick, they should see a veterinarian.
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who is much more qualified to treat a sickness than a priest.
 
Why is it so difficult for people (on both sides) to carry on a converstation without slinging insults?

I don’t get it. People come here from both sides, especially in a thread like this one, for the purpose of discussing or viewing other peoples’ thoughts, and yet can’t seem to resist the temptation to get their little “digs” in.

I suppose it must be easier to banter one-liners back and forth than to actually produce meaningful thoughts. 😦
 
… any Catholic who goes to a priest instead of a doctor when he is sick just plain out doesn’t know what he is talking about. That’s not the teaching of the religion. If a person wants to go to both that’s fine.

You may want to look at James chapter 5 when he writes about annointing the sick with oil. This is interesting because at the time of Christ, annointing folks with oil was a relatively popular “medical” treatment. In other words, James may have been writing that if anyone is sick that they ought to call the elder and then administer what was thought of as medicine back then. So if he wrote it today, he might have written to call a priest and go get some antibiotics.
 
Hello,

My questions from post 206 were sincere. I have always assumed athiests did not believe in eternity, but I really don’t know.

Do athiests try to convert those who believe in any God to atheism?
 
Chris W:
Why is it so difficult for people (on both sides) to carry on a converstation without slinging insults?

I don’t get it. People come here from both sides, especially in a thread like this one, for the purpose of discussing or viewing other peoples’ thoughts, and yet can’t seem to resist the temptation to get their little “digs” in.

I suppose it must be easier to banter one-liners back and forth than to actually produce meaningful thoughts. 😦
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Now, now Chris. What makes you really think that the purpose of my post was to hurl an insult?

Actually, that’s what atheists are telling us. that they and us have no souls and are just animals. Now that’s really insulting to me.

But if any atheist REALLY BELIEVES THAT HE IS JUST AN ANIMAL, ONE INDICATION IS IN WHERE HE GOES WHEN HE IS SICK. DOES HE GO TO A VETERINARIAN OR DOES HE GO TO A DOCTOR?
This is just like in the Katrina flood disaster. Some people want the helicopters and rescue people to be rescuing pets instead of impoverished people.
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                                    It is true that sometimes, you go to a priest when you are sick, AND INDEED , YOU GET WELL!!! That’s why abstain/fast from sins, Have faith!!! Believe!!! THEN MIRACLES HAPPEN!!! Often, without you even asking nor expecting. Then you know that indeed there is a God!!!
 
The Eurasian said:
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Now, now Chris. What makes you really think that the purpose of my post was to hurl an insult?

Actually, that’s what atheists are telling us. that they and us have no souls and are just animals. Now that’s really insulting to me.

But if any atheist REALLY BELIEVES THAT HE IS JUST AN ANIMAL, ONE INDICATION IS IN WHERE HE GOES WHEN HE IS SICK. DOES HE GO TO A VETERINARIAN OR DOES HE GO TO A DOCTOR?
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Indeed an atheist would not believe in the human soul. Still, a vet does not treat homosapians, does he? And a doctor does not need to recognize the existence of a human soul in order to properly treat a person, does he? That is why I concluded your remarks were inflamatory without reason.

If you feel I was off base in my response, let’s look at the response you received from An Athiest.
 
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