How Would You Improve The Mass?

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I’m just looking it up now, and it says that it is not done, but I’m certain that I saw it there. I went to Mass in Komorow, outside of Warsaw. I didn’t take it in the hand at the time, but my husband did and I was surprised at the amount of people who did.
The church we went to was a rather roundish, modern looking one with lots of windows. Our daughter was baptized in that church.

In Poland, people are more familiar in their churches. It’s such a part of the culture that they seem very comfortable in them.
 
Panis Angelicas:
…I also agree with Servus Christi.
In particular, the greatest improvement that could be made, would be if we all received Holy Communion on our knees…
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Indeed; it’s one of the profoundest mysteries of modern liturgical confections that kneeling (or other profound abasement) is frowned upon.

It was good enough for Jesus when He addressed His Father: Matthew 26:39 “Et progressus pusillum procidit in faciem suam orans et dicens mi Pater si possibile est transeat a me calix iste verumtamen non sicut ego volo sed sicut tu.”

It was good enough for the leper when he pled his case to Jesus: Mark 1:40 Et venit ad eum leprosus deprecans eum et genu flexo dixit si vis potes me mundare."

And it was good enough for the rich young man when he wanted to be taught by Jesus: Mark 10:17 “Et cum egressus esset in viam procurrens quidam genu flexo ante eum rogabat eum magister bone quid faciam ut vitam aeternam percipiam.”

Our stiff necks may yet break!
 
I would scrap the WHOLE Novus Ordo and go back to the Traditional Latin Litugy.

My two cents…

God Bless!
 
Hello Byzantine Catholic,
I’m not sure I would go that far, but I am willing to sort out everyone’s opinion. Do you think there is anything that could be done to improve the Novus Ordo or do you just say it has to go PERIOD?

Do you attend the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom?
Blessings,
Ryan

P.S Take my Traditionalist poll under apologetics if you haven’t already. Thanks!
 
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WhiteDove:
I’m just looking it up now, and it says that it is not done, but I’m certain that I saw it there. I went to Mass in Komorow, outside of Warsaw. I didn’t take it in the hand at the time, but my husband did and I was surprised at the amount of people who did.
The church we went to was a rather roundish, modern looking one with lots of windows. Our daughter was baptized in that church.

In Poland, people are more familiar in their churches. It’s such a part of the culture that they seem very comfortable in them.
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White Dove,
Perhaps it was a liturgical abuse. I have read several places that the practice is illicit and that the Pope will not give Communion in the hand under any circumstance.

You cannot be expected to know that though if you go to the church and everyone is receiving in their hands. Sounds like it may have been a more liberal church.
God bless,
Ryan
 
I woul insist that the Mass be said and executed in the smallest details according to the Rubrics of the Roman Catholic Church, and that where variation was permitted, the participants limit themselves to the norms of Vatican II.

I have participated in the Tridentine Mass (once, at Our Lady, Star of the Sea Parish in Los Angeles) and would have no problem at all doing so again, as it has been approved for all time in the Council of Trent Catechism, and continues to be permitted by our Holy Father.

On Communion in the hand …

I personally choose to receive on the tongue, as my fingers and hand have not been consecrated. If people wish to receive on the hand, they should educate themselves and follow the necessary procedures to protect the sacred species.

Confession as necessary is understood, I hope!

Dominicae Cenae from John Paul II
In some countries the practice of receiving Communion in the hand has been introduced. This practice has been requested by individual episcopal conferences and has received approval from the Apostolic See. However, cases of a deplorable lack of respect towards the eucharistic species have been reported, cases which are imputable not only to the individuals guilty of such behavior but also to the pastors of the church who have not been vigilant enough regarding the attitude of the faithful towards the Eucharist. It also happens, on occasion, that the free choice of those who prefer to continue the practice of receiving the Eucharist on the tongue is not taken into account in those places where the distribution of Communion in the hand has been authorized. It is therefore difficult in the context of this present letter not to mention the sad phenomena previously referred to. This is in no way meant to refer to those who, receiving the Lord Jesus in the hand, do so with profound reverence and devotion, in those countries where this practice has been authorized.
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Ryan,

Yes, I do attend the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrystodom. However, I went to Latin rite schools growing up. So, I have a “vested” opinion about the Latin rite. To be honest I don’t care for anything Novus Ordo. I don’t think it is outrageous to think about scraping the whole thing.

God Bless!
 
You forgot to include: Vibrant music that invites the congregation to give heart and soul in prayerful song.

Well planned, well rounded liturgy that hits all different points well.
 
I would definately say:
  1. Better music…no modern christian hee haw kind of music. Don’t get me wrong, I like modern christian music but it doesn’t belong in mass.
  2. Latin would be nice. I’ve always wondered why in the Latin rite its a sin to have latin in mass.
3)Homilies that are NOT boring and that actually talk about the scriptures and church teaching. Ya know actually talk about those hard issues like abortion, contraception, etc. (scandalous, right?:rolleyes: )

4)Men NOT dressing like slobs and women NOT dressing like they’re off clubbin’. It would be nice to go to mass and feel like I’m at mass and not in a Hooter’s.
  1. Priests wearing vestments that don’t look like something out of Austin Powers’ closet. :eek: We once had a visiting priest who wore this bright blue and purple swirlly thing that looked like something left over from a 60’s disco. I think there’ll be plenty of time in purgatory for that one…:rolleyes:
Other than that, the holy sacrifice of the mass was, is, and always will be perfect.
 
Sometimes I think God must cringe at the music. If the good musicians can’t show up, why not pop in a tape? Or maybe a chant instead of off-key voices and out-of-time instruments.

I also dislike singing the Lord’s Prayer. There was an upbeat version sung by a Nun, an AM radio hit back in the 70’s, that was pretty cool. Does anyone remember her name?
 
" Latin would be nice. I’ve always wondered why in the Latin rite its a sin to have latin in mass"

It’s not a sin and there are entire N.O. Masses said in Latin rather than in the Vernacular.

It is also not a sin to celebrate the Tridentine Mass in Latin.

It is supposed to be done with permission of the local Bishop, however to be considered a licit Mass.
 
This is a good thread. Here are my opinions for improving the Mass. This is from a post Vatican II 34 year old male who is tired of all the inconsistancy’s from Parish to Parish.
  1. Stop all Liturgical abuses. holding hands during the “Our Father”, Homily being omitted infavor of donations to the retired nuns, lay people opening the Tabranacle and giving the Concecrated hosts to the priest. ect…
  2. Proper dress code for Mass. Dress respectfully. We are in the Lord’s house. We mut not show him any disrespect.
  3. More silence. Too much chatter while others are praying.
  4. Make the homilies more meaningful. Stop talking about love. Put more emphasis on stoping abortion, divorce, having babies out of wedlock.
  5. Talk more about Hell and Purgatory. This is still a Catholic dogma. It needs to be discussed more. Tell the people that if they do not repent their lives. They will suffer.
  6. Talk more about the Saints. Tell who they were and how did they become a Saint.
  7. Make the feast days in the Church Calandar more meaningful. Have a procession and discuss what it is about.
  8. Use all the Eucharistic prayers. Stop just using the short one. Use all of them.
  9. Bring back the traditional hymms. I am tired of singing the same songs over and over.
  10. Bring back the Communion Rail. If there are indivuduals who have health problems, that is fine. But, to show respect have everyone kneel when recieving Holy Communion.
  11. Have one Latin Mass on Sunday. This will show that the people who left the church because of it, might help them to bring them back.
  12. Have some of the Mass said in Latin. Just like they do with the Mass on E.W.T.N.
  13. Have Latin classes explaining the parts of the Mass. Instead of having a course in Latin. Have class that explain what is being said in Latin. This will help the Parishners young and old to become more used to the Mass.
  14. Say the Mass from top to bottom. Say it the way it is supposed to be said and the attendance and the collection will increase.
15 Lastly, in order to make Mass improved. We must do it ourselves. We must become more inteligent by reading and educating others about the Catholic Faith. Get a copy of the G.I.R.M. and the new report “Liturgical Abuses” from Catholic Answers. Talk about the issues with outher parishners and your Parish council and Pastor. If there are abuses. Bring them up and go from there.

If the people work together, we can improve the Mass.

Andy Zenchak
Pittsburgh, Pa.
Knight of Columbus
 
Great post Andy - I agree with all you said.

Maybe its because I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and became a Catholic there on 4 September 1949. - It was at Holy Rosary Church in Brushton then but it now is called something else.
 
mark a:
Sometimes I think God must cringe at the music. If the good musicians can’t show up, why not pop in a tape? Or maybe a chant instead of off-key voices and out-of-time instruments.

I also dislike singing the Lord’s Prayer. There was an upbeat version sung by a Nun, an AM radio hit back in the 70’s, that was pretty cool. Does anyone remember her name?
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I think it was Sr. Janet, or something like that.
 
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deogratias:
Great post Andy - I agree with all you said.

Maybe its because I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and became a Catholic there on 4 September 1949. - It was at Holy Rosary Church in Brushton then but it now is called something else.
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Hello,

I was born and raised in Pittsburgh. I am a cradle Catholic with 12 years of Catholic education. I am thankful for having parents, grandparents and family who help to install traditional Catholic teachings to me. It frustrating to attend Mass and seing abuses. The parishners and fellow Catholics must become more knowledgable in the order and understaning of the Mass. We must reeducate the Priests by showing them official church doccuments and not be afraid to ask them questions.

Andy
 
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Fortiterinre:
There are several ways to interpret this question–I understood it to mean juridical and structural changes to the GIRM. Many of the ideas mentioned are good ones but could already be done through simple parish practice rather than rewriting the GIRM. Regarding modesty, there are more than a few parishes that still have signs in the narthex delineating dress codes or no talking rules. The biggest change I would make: I wish Latin Rite Catholics had some Latin in every Mass–even if it were just the Agnus Dei. We are the biggest Rite within the Church, but sadly with the least amount of our own culture and history in our Mass. But I can’t see eliminating Communion under both species just to return to an idea of “tradition”–this would be a structural change that poses some serious theological difficulties.
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For one, what theological difficulties? The fullness of Christ is in either species, and many parishes still only offer the host. I feel VERY strongly that a large push behind use of the chalice is to provide and excuse to get more laity on the altar.

For two, if you must insist on use of both species(and again it is only an option) why not use intinction? Intinction would eliminate the need for extra EMHCs, and also would not make the precious blood a secondary spcies, and in effect, it is now because I often see masses were 25% or less recieve the precious blood.
 
Another thing is if elimination of both species poses serious theological question, then a large majority of the Catholics in the world are questionable, because use communion under both species is only common in the English speaking world, it is very rare in the 3rd world.
 
“We must reeducate the Priests by showing them official church doccuments and not be afraid to ask them questions.”

Oh I am not afraid to ask questions but you wouldn’t believe some of the answers I get.
  1. Spend more time praying and less time on forums reading documents.
  2. If you don’t like the way things are done in this parish, find another one.
  3. You should take custody of your eyes and not be looking around and criticising what is going on during Mass.
  4. (this was one of my favorites) Liturgical law is not like the 10 commandments. The negative divine law THOU SHALT NOT applies absolutely always and everywhere. But liturgical law is human law, given to us by the church to help us realize some ideals. This kind of law needs application within a community
  5. So, breathe easy, and relax is my recommendation to you. We are an imperfect Church and God loves us anyway
No direct answsers to any of my questions, just this double talk.
 
I gave up on the NOM and have returned to the Tridentine Latin Mass, which has been offered in this diocese only since the first Sunday of June.

No lectors
No altar girls
No “masters of ceremonies” in albs and EMs swarming all over the altar acting like priests, telling priests what to do, putting their grubby hands into the Tabernacle, pouring the Precious Blood, breaking the host(s) for distribution, etc.
No female EMs distributing Holy Communion in short shorts
No music, cantor, choir, or orchestra rehearsals immediately before Mass when silence is called for
No musical performances to distract the congregation’s focus from the altar
The organ has been moved to the choir loft where it belongs instead of at the side of the altar where it is a distraction. (Both piano and organ were at the front of the church near the altar – now the organ has moved and the paino, bongo drums !], and other instruments are left.
No congregations rehearsing insipid songs just prior to Holy Mass
No handholding.
No artificial fellowship (Please stand and say hello to your neighbor).
No more gum-chewing, Coke-sipping communicants
No more chit-chatting before, during, and after the Mass
No more “I’ll do it my way, which is any old way” celebrants

And – no more letters of complaint from me to the priests and bishop (which were ignored until we got a new bishop)

The Tridentine Latin Mass is purrrrrrrrrrfect. Profound reverence. Beautiful silence. Communion on the tongue, on my knees. The Sacrifice to the Transcendent God is clearly revealed through the Sacred Liturgy. The NOM obscures it because of all the abuses.

I LOVE THIS CHURCH !!!

JMJ Jay
 
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