How would you interpret this story

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Like I mentioned on a post I had made previously, I’m pretty convinced that Catholicism is the right religion, and I still am. However there is a specific story that I just can’t square with Catholicism, and it’s causing me stress. Here it is:

“About 10 years ago, I got in a fight with my mom about me being an atheist. She tried to attack me with a bat and I got the hell out of there. I went to my friends house and we started to walk around his neighborhood and talk. Every 20 feet or so on the curb there were those Christian comics (Chick tracts) that have some story and moral. I was picking them up and reading them and talking to my friend about how I didn’t believe any of it. I picked up one on suicide and we started talking about a friend that had killed himself about a year and a half earlier. His life was **** and it made me angry to think about people saying that he was in Hell. I, then, saw another thing on the curb ahead. I thought it was another comic, but it was a drivers license. The drivers license of the friend who we were just talking about who killed himself. I saw on his license that it was his birthday. It’s been over 10 years and I still don’t know how to wrap my head around that one.”

I know it almost sounds fake, but I have good reason to believe it’s not. And the only thing I can think of that that coincidence is trying to say is that the guy should convert to Christianity, and since chick tracts have a section at the end that says they should join a sola scriptura church, it’s specifically supposed to be protestantism. If you could, please tell me how this story could be squared with Catholicism.
 
I don’t understand what the Chick tracts have to do with finding your friend’s driver’s license. Chick tracts are very anti-Catholic. You remembered your friend who committed suicide after you read the tract about suicide. Was the tract saying that those who commit suicide are in hell? We do not know the answer to that - we do know that we should not kill ourselves.

After reading that tract you then find your friend’s driver’s license. To me, that sounds like it was a consolation for you, about this friend who had such a horrible life. It sounds like a God-incidence.
 
I once heard a story about something funny that happened to my sister’s friend. It was such a great story that I told it many times over to different people, and everyone got a kick out of it. Many years later, I learned that it was actually made up. I felt like a fool because I had believed it and related it so convincingly to so many people.

On reading your story, I would first question how sure you are that it actually happened, because it does sound made up. You say you have good reason to believe it’s not, but I wonder what that reason could be, and I’d encourage you with a healthy dose of skepticism, especially now that I know how easy it is to be led astray by an interesting story that someone says happened to them or to a friend of theirs. This is all the more true with stories about religious experiences, because people can become highly motivated and invested in getting you to believe them in order to convert.

Suppose, however, that it did actually happen. Maybe it actually happened to you? I’d argue first that we shouldn’t read into every coincidence an indication that it is a sign from God. I’d argue secondly that even if you did want to read into it and see it as God speaking to you, it’s not clear that He was trying to say “join a fundamentalist Church” (I have much better reasons to believe that God would not say this to someone who was searching for Him). If it was meant to be a sign, He could have been urging the person to look into Christianity in general (perhaps knowing that the atheist would be skeptical of the Chick trash but eventually find his way to the Church). Or perhaps the license and trick tracks were unrelated and God was urging your friend to reach out to the poor boy’s mother to offer her consolation on the birthday of her deceased son, especially given that this atheist had such a poor relationship with his own mother.

I guess my point is, if you’re looking for signs, you can find them to some degree anywhere you look. If you’re searching for the Truth, ask questions, ask God to lead you, and you’ll end up where you need to be.

God bless.
 
nodito said:
I once heard a story about something funny that happened to my sister’s friend. It was such a great story that I told it many times over to different people, and everyone got a kick out of it. Many years later, I learned that it was actually made up. I felt like a fool because I had believed it and related it so convincingly to so many people.

On reading your story, I would first question how sure you are that it actually happened, because it does sound made up. You say you have good reason to believe it’s not, but I wonder what that reason could be, and I’d encourage you with a healthy dose of skepticism, especially now that I know how easy it is to be led astray by an interesting story that someone says happened to them or to a friend of theirs. This is all the more true with stories about religious experiences, because people can become highly motivated and invested in getting you to believe them in order to convert.

Suppose, however, that it did actually happen. Maybe it actually happened to you? I’d argue first that we shouldn’t read into every coincidence an indication that it is a sign from God. I’d argue secondly that even if you did want to read into it and see it as God speaking to you, it’s not clear that He was trying to say “join a fundamentalist Church” (I have much better reasons to believe that God would not say this to someone who was searching for Him). If it was meant to be a sign, He could have been urging the person to look into Christianity in general (perhaps knowing that the atheist would be skeptical of the Chick trash but eventually find his way to the Church). Or perhaps the license and trick tracks were unrelated and God was urging your friend to reach out to the poor boy’s mother to offer her consolation on the birthday of her deceased son, especially given that this atheist had such a poor relationship with his own mother.

I guess my point is, if you’re looking for signs, you can find them to some degree anywhere you look. If you’re searching for the Truth, ask questions, ask God to lead you, and you’ll end up where you need to be.

God bless.
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I agree, it does sound like the kind of story that would be considered an urban legend.
 
dark_light said:
Like I mentioned on a post I had made previously, I’m pretty convinced that Catholicism is the right religion, and I still am. However there is a specific story that I just can’t square with Catholicism, and it’s causing me stress. Here it is:

“About 10 years ago, I got in a fight with my mom about me being an atheist. She tried to attack me with a bat and I got the hell out of there. I went to my friends house and we started to walk around his neighborhood and talk. Every 20 feet or so on the curb there were those Christian comics (Chick tracts) that have some story and moral. I was picking them up and reading them and talking to my friend about how I didn’t believe any of it. I picked up one on suicide and we started talking about a friend that had killed himself about a year and a half earlier. His life was **** and it made me angry to think about people saying that he was in Hell. I, then, saw another thing on the curb ahead. I thought it was another comic, but it was a drivers license. The drivers license of the friend who we were just talking about who killed himself. I saw on his license that it was his birthday. It’s been over 10 years and I still don’t know how to wrap my head around that one.”

I know it almost sounds fake, but I have good reason to believe it’s not. And the only thing I can think of that that coincidence is trying to say is that the guy should convert to Christianity, and since chick tracts have a section at the end that says they should join a sola scriptura church, it’s specifically supposed to be protestantism. If you could, please tell me how this story could be squared with Catholicism.
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How would I interpret this story?
Heresy with no real reason to believe it’s true.
 
nodito said:
I once heard a story about something funny that happened to my sister’s friend. It was such a great story that I told it many times over to different people, and everyone got a kick out of it. Many years later, I learned that it was actually made up. I felt like a fool because I had believed it and related it so convincingly to so many people.

On reading your story, I would first question how sure you are that it actually happened, because it does sound made up. You say you have good reason to believe it’s not, but I wonder what that reason could be, and I’d encourage you with a healthy dose of skepticism, especially now that I know how easy it is to be led astray by an interesting story that someone says happened to them or to a friend of theirs. This is all the more true with stories about religious experiences, because people can become highly motivated and invested in getting you to believe them in order to convert.

Suppose, however, that it did actually happen. Maybe it actually happened to you? I’d argue first that we shouldn’t read into every coincidence an indication that it is a sign from God. I’d argue secondly that even if you did want to read into it and see it as God speaking to you, it’s not clear that He was trying to say “join a fundamentalist Church” (I have much better reasons to believe that God would not say this to someone who was searching for Him). If it was meant to be a sign, He could have been urging the person to look into Christianity in general (perhaps knowing that the atheist would be skeptical of the Chick trash but eventually find his way to the Church). Or perhaps the license and trick tracks were unrelated and God was urging your friend to reach out to the poor boy’s mother to offer her consolation on the birthday of her deceased son, especially given that this atheist had such a poor relationship with his own mother.

I guess my point is, if you’re looking for signs, you can find them to some degree anywhere you look. If you’re searching for the Truth, ask questions, ask God to lead you, and you’ll end up where you need to be.

God bless.
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Thanks for the reply. You make a lot of sense. I’ve thought of all of the things you mention about the story too. I guess there’s really no way to tell exactly what God wanted to say with this coincidence (if it was God.) I can also think of many ways that this could have been just a coincidence or maybe even his mom trying to set him up, or something like that. I wonder if coincidences like these are just meant for the one experiencing them, and that they probably have no objective meaning. Also btw this guy is still an atheist, so the sign (if it actually did happen) didn’t work.
 
Though the fullness of truth has been entrusted by Christ to his Catholic Church, many elements of truth can be found in non-Catholic Christian Churches and ecclesial communities and even in non-Christian religions, albeit mixed with error, and God uses those non-Catholic Churches, communities, and non-Christian religions to lead men to those elements of truth that those organizations contain, as a preparation for the fullness of truth contained in the Catholic Church. I guess God figures that, though the fullness of truth is best, partial truth is better than no truth at all.

Concerning non-Catholic Christian Churches and ecclesial communities, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
And concerning non-Christian religions, it says:
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”
 
The deceased, those in purgatory that is, require prayer. Your experience suggests that the person who committed suicide is in need of prayer. Happening upon the driver’s licence was no coincidence. Take it as a sign to pray much for this person’s soul. They are in great need of prayer. Also please have a mass said for them. You will be blessed as when you pray for them in their time of need, they will pray for you in turn.
 
Spritus1 said:
The deceased, those in purgatory that is, require prayer. Your experience suggests that the person who committed suicide is in need of prayer. Happening upon the driver’s licence was no coincidence. Take it as a sign to pray much for this person’s soul. They are in great need of prayer. Also please have a mass said for them. You will be blessed as when you pray for them in their time of need, they will pray for you in turn.
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Good advice and well stated.👍
 
Todd977 said:
Though the fullness of truth has been entrusted by Christ to his Catholic Church, many elements of truth can be found in non-Catholic Christian Churches and ecclesial communities and even in non-Christian religions, albeit mixed with error, and God uses those non-Catholic Churches, communities, and non-Christian religions to lead men to those elements of truth that those organizations contain, as a preparation for the fullness of truth contained in the Catholic Church. I guess God figures that, though the fullness of truth is best, partial truth is better than no truth at all.

Concerning non-Catholic Christian Churches and ecclesial communities, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says:
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

Thank you for that post!
And concerning non-Christian religions, it says:
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”
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Firstly: God does not usually act by signs and symbols, so I would be wary of reading too much into any incidence, doubly so for coincidences.

In light of that I’d caution against reading too much into it. Especially because that story is at best God acting to move closer to that specific person. God may have needed to take your friend to a protestant faith, before he could attempt to move him towards the full truth.

At worst it’s embellished or outright fake. If indeed that story is true, and that was orchestrated by God, it was to bring your atheist friend closer to the truth about God (protestants at least accept some of the truth).

But in all honesty? Likely that story isn’t fake, it sounds like a classic intervention plan by loving people in your friends life to lay out those tracts followed by their friends drivers license, and it seems to have worked well. He sounds like he was deeply moved, and has entered into some relationship with God.

I’ll be praying for you in your investigation of the Catholic church.

AMDG
cjb_914
 
Well, let’s analyze this story:
dark_light said:
I went to my friends house and we started to walk around his neighborhood and talk. Every 20 feet or so on the curb there were those Christian comics (Chick tracts) that have some story and moral.
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So someone happened to litter different Jack Chick tracts. And not all in one place but every 20 feet or so on the sidewalk. Already I’m finding this hard to believe. I’m wondering how on earth somebody managed to do that.
I was picking them up and reading them and talking to my friend about how I didn’t believe any of it. I picked up one on suicide and we started talking about a friend that had killed himself about a year and a half earlier. His life was **** and it made me angry to think about people saying that he was in Hell. I, then, saw another thing on the curb ahead. I thought it was another comic, but it was a drivers license. The drivers license of the friend who we were just talking about who killed himself.
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Uh huh. Speaking from personal experience, when a family member dies, one of the relatives either keeps or destroys the driver’s license. In this day and age of identity theft, this is not something you would want out in public. It would be kept in a safe place, not in someone’s pocket. Yet—a year and a half after the death, someone drops this driver’s license, (and not anybody else’s, mind you) out on a public sidewalk.
I know it almost sounds fake,
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It doesn’t almost sound fake. It sounds completely fake.
 
dark_light said:
If you could, please tell me how this story could be squared with Catholicism.
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I’m not going to comment on the story, as enough people already had. I’d like to focus on the last question you asked.

Consider this: One day, after a foot injury, I was watching the College World Series on a Saturday afternoon because my beloved LSU Tigers were playing Miami in the Championship game. The game was in the last inning and LSU was down with 2 outs and runners on. The batter then hit a walk off home run to win the game. I also went to mass that afternoon, even though walking was painful. How does one square that story with Catholicism?

The answer is, you don’t. Things happen in our world and they don’t necessarily have to line up with the tenets of our faith in any way. It made me happy the Tigers won, as it might have made the characters in your story sad to happen upon a driver’s license of their deceased friend. The inclusion of the Chick Tracts are the same as me adding the bit about going to mass after the game.

I noticed that you say you are inquiring about Catholicism, which is great, and we’d love to have you join the family! Understand though, that our God is a God of logic and order, as is our faith. Fantastic stories of unusual coincidence are often just that. Don’t try to pigeonhole things like that into the faith or try to “square things up” with Catholicism. You could end up chasing rabbits down holes that will sow confusion and doubt because you can’t make the faith fit into the box you’ve tried to create for it.
 
ShanPO said:
I’m not going to comment on the story, as enough people already had. I’d like to focus on the last question you asked.

Consider this: One day, after a foot injury, I was watching the College World Series on a Saturday afternoon because my beloved LSU Tigers were playing Miami in the Championship game. The game was in the last inning and LSU was down with 2 outs and runners on. The batter then hit a walk off home run to win the game. I also went to mass that afternoon, even though walking was painful. How does one square that story with Catholicism?

The answer is, you don’t. Things happen in our world and they don’t necessarily have to line up with the tenets of our faith in any way. It made me happy the Tigers won, as it might have made the characters in your story sad to happen upon a driver’s license of their deceased friend. The inclusion of the Chick Tracts are the same as me adding the bit about going to mass after the game.

I noticed that you say you are inquiring about Catholicism, which is great, and we’d love to have you join the family! Understand though, that our God is a God of logic and order, as is our faith. Fantastic stories of unusual coincidence are often just that. Don’t try to pigeonhole things like that into the faith or try to “square things up” with Catholicism. You could end up chasing rabbits down holes that will sow confusion and doubt because you can’t make the faith fit into the box you’ve tried to create for it.
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That’s good insight. You’re right about going down the rabbit hole thing, it’s already happened to me. I guess I’m just still kinda caught up in the protestant sign craziness in which I grew up. But you’ll even hear Catholics saying “there are no coincidences” or “everything happens for a reason.” I would love to be able to just call coincidences coincidences and leave it at that. With the huge amount of events happening in this world, coincidences are literally inevitable. Maybe I just have to take the skeptical approach.
 
dark_light said:
That’s good insight. You’re right about going down the rabbit hole thing, it’s already happened to me. I guess I’m just still kinda caught up in the protestant sign craziness in which I grew up. But you’ll even hear Catholics saying “there are no coincidences” or “everything happens for a reason.” I would love to be able to just call coincidences coincidences and leave it at that. With the huge amount of events happening in this world, coincidences are literally inevitable. Maybe I just have to take the skeptical approach.
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Again, not everything has to square with your faith. I had grapes with lunch yesterday. Wine is made from grapes. Jesus used wine at the last supper to institute the Eucharist, so I was a part of the last supper. Uhhhh, no. I like grapes, so I ate them. If you try to bring EVERYTHING back to your faith, that’s the silliness you’re going to get.

And yes, everything does happen for a reason, but sometimes, those reasons will never be known by us. You just have to know that there’s a God who’s a lot smarter than you are in control and who wants you to know that you’re loved by Him, even if something bad happens to you.
 
Spritus1 said:
The deceased, those in purgatory that is, require prayer. Your experience suggests that the person who committed suicide is in need of prayer. Happening upon the driver’s licence was no coincidence. Take it as a sign to pray much for this person’s soul. They are in great need of prayer. Also please have a mass said for them. You will be blessed as when you pray for them in their time of need, they will pray for you in turn.
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👍
 
The souls of the departed often need prayer. There are few, sadly even among Catholics, who pray for them. God knows those souls who need prayer and He also knows who will pray for them. Thus if one is prepared to pray for deceased persons, God in His infinite goodness will bring to your notice those in need of prayer. So for instance, if someone happens to tell you that so and so has just died then pray for them. If you come across an In Memoriam card with the name of a deceased person on it, pray for them. Pray the prayer to St Gertrude. Pray for them by name. Have Masses said for them if you can. Remember them at Adoration. Place petitions in their name at shrines etc.

If you do this you will bring such relief and speed to heaven souls who would otherwise languish in purgatory. Such prayer is an act of great mercy and charity and anyone can do it even those who may be bedridden or otherwise incapable of physical acts of mercy and charity. There is really no excuse not to pray for the departed. God has ordained it that the souls you assist will in turn pray for you when they reach heaven.

We will only know after death just how much or how little we have helped those souls in need. Really there are no coincidences in the spiritual life. We only see coincidences because we have not learned to see the hand of God in our daily lives.
 
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