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IvanKaramozov
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How?
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AgnosTheist
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for one thing, you were referring to law breakers. but i am referring to law-makers…the wahabbis.
second, is that your example dont share a common belief system. a muslimah wearing the hijab shares a lot of ideas with women in saudi arabia.
thirdly, in your example the small group of criminals is despised by the larger law abiding group (of the same race). contrary to the sauds, arabs & wahabbis which gets a lot of sympathy and/or tolerance from mainstream muslims.
I do understand that you are pointing out how the whole is generalized through a fraction.
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IvanKaramozov
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Wahabbis arn’t law makers, they are followers of Wahaab, who oposed Afghani, Wahaab beleived in a revivalist anti-colonial moverment, while Afghani beleived in a reformist one.
If you want to make generalizations about follower of Wahaab that is fine, we can discuss that, As not all, or even most, Muslims follow Wahaab the group in question also does not share common beleifs.
What percentage of the African American teenage male population listen to rap?
High crime rates, a large portion of the population listenes to music depecting these criminal and immoral actions, we should be able to then conclude that most black teen males are criminals or support criminals.
Of course that would be quite wrong, yet for some reasone this dosen’t seem to deter some people from makeing the same horrid generalizations about Muslims.
Alright.
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BlestOne
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Much to my shame, right after 9/11 I was working at a clothing store. Like many companies, we were asked to ask patrons to donate to the 9/11 survivors fund. A woman dressed in Muslim attire came through my register and I was afraid to ask her. I was afraid that she would make a scene and yell about how we deserved this tragedy… but in the end, I did ask her… just so I could clear my conscience about doing my job. She said yes and donated more than anyone else had that day… I was humbly reminded not to judge people by what they wear or how they look.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, and yes, I do get angry at the demands for foot washing stations and the demands not to allow dogs in their cabs… but I have found that these people are the minority even though they are the loudest…
One of my now best friends is a Muslim. She is living in the US because her husband tried to kill her. In Saudi Arabia it is his right to do so. She lives in fear of him coming here to kill her. Instead he told his sons to kill their mother… and they tried… so again she had to move to where they couldn’t find her or her daughters… it was sad! When I met her she was beat up and moving in next door to me… I immediately felt for her… how sad to not only live in fear of her husband, but then to have to hide from her sons so she could raise her daughters. She is such a devout woman… prays 6 times a day and stuff… then afterwards she would sit out on the porch and we would chat… she taught me so much about selfless love and made me a stronger Christian because of it.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, and yes, I do get angry at the demands for foot washing stations and the demands not to allow dogs in their cabs… but I have found that these people are the minority even though they are the loudest…
One of my now best friends is a Muslim. She is living in the US because her husband tried to kill her. In Saudi Arabia it is his right to do so. She lives in fear of him coming here to kill her. Instead he told his sons to kill their mother… and they tried… so again she had to move to where they couldn’t find her or her daughters… it was sad! When I met her she was beat up and moving in next door to me… I immediately felt for her… how sad to not only live in fear of her husband, but then to have to hide from her sons so she could raise her daughters. She is such a devout woman… prays 6 times a day and stuff… then afterwards she would sit out on the porch and we would chat… she taught me so much about selfless love and made me a stronger Christian because of it.
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IvanKaramozov
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That is lovely of you to help her, hopefully women right’s will improve in Saudi Arabia through greater exposition of these horrors.
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LaMar
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I’ll be the first to admit that I know almost nothing about Islam. What’s most amazing is that people here, who seem confident enough to pretend to lecture on the subject, know much less than I do after a few days of casual reading.
What AgnosTheist might be referring to is Qutbism, but that’s just a guess. Clearly, S/he doesn’t know what s/he’s talking about him/herself…so all bets are off.
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LaMar
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I’ve had numerous similar experiences. Most Muslims I know are immigrants from various other places. They and their children are very happy to be here in secular, godless America. They don’t want to go back to wherever they came from and they especially cringe at the idea that any religious movement (theirs included) will take over and start passing their insolent judgment upon what regular citizens can and can not do.
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AgnosTheist
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Actually I am referring to Wahabbism. So whats that about the bet?
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IvanKaramozov
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I think Sayyid Qutb fell in with Wahaab, but it’s all a bit muddled and I also know very little
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LaMar
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Can you tell me what Wahabism is, exactly, in your own words?Actually I am referring to Wahabbism. So whats that about the bet?
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IvanKaramozov
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Followers of Wahaab arn’t Law Makers in traditional IslamActually I am referring to Wahabbism. So whats that about the bet?
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AgnosTheist
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Wahabbism --an islamic reform movement which became popular through anti-ottoman rebellions and became the foundation for saudi arabia. its stresses strict adherence to koran and hadith, and as for the details of their beliefs just observe saudi arabia.
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LaMar
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I don’t think Qutb was a Wahabist, but he borrowed a couple of words from the movement.
Qutb came up with some novel ideas. He seems to have modernized ibn-Uahab’s idea of Jahiliyah, and given it a quasi-marxist definition.
To Qutb, Jahiliyah is something similar to Lukacs idea of false consciousness, or Gramsci’s idea of hegemony. Modern people are enslaved, says Qutb, and can not resist their enslavement because they don’t have the psychological means to conceptualize their own bondage.
The answer, was something like a neo-Marxist cadre translated into Islamic terms. This cadre would liberate the people of one country, and once the people lost their internal blinders they would join the revolution, which would lead to a new global caliphate.
It’s all very surreal to read Said Qutb. All his ideas seem to be Marxist-Leninist ideas with Arabic names, and Islamo-centric definitions.
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LaMar
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Funny how this doesn’t have anything to do with your earlier claims. Where did you copy this from?Wahabbism --an islamic reform movement which became popular through anti-ottoman rebellions and became the foundation for saudi arabia. its stresses strict adherence to koran and hadith, and as for the details of their beliefs just observe saudi arabia.
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IvanKaramozov
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No, Wahabbism is a revivalist moverment, Afghani was the reformist.Wahabbism --an islamic reform movement which became popular through anti-ottoman rebellions and became the foundation for saudi arabia. its stresses strict adherence to koran and hadith, and as for the details of their beliefs just observe saudi arabia.
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IvanKaramozov
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I knew about the communist streak, but I’m not sure why I thought he came from the Wahabbist strain, either way, thank you for correcting me
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LaMar
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Well, I don’t think you need correction, and you weren’t wrong. He said he was not a member of any school, though he said lots of things. He did take some of his philosophy from Uahab though. He also seems to have taken some stuff from the Maliki school of jurisprudence (the not relying so much on hadith principle, and ijtihaad).I knew about the communist streak, but I’m not sure why I thought he came from the Wahabbist strain, either way, thank you for correcting me
It’s pretty interesting stuff. I really appreciate your posts.
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AgnosTheist
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like what earlier claims? Im sure you just misunderstood.
dont underestimate me, my friend. i know a lot more than i look.
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AgnosTheist
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reform, revival, its almost interchangeable!
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IvanKaramozov
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Sure, just like the American (R)evolution and the Earth’s (R)otation are almost interchangeable.reform, revival, its almost interchangeable!
Sorry, I have no patience to joke around, you’ve spent a fairly good deal of time not just slandering a religion, but much worse slandering an entire group of people, yet you seem to have a limited at best knowledge of the religion, not that I am some expert, and your social argument are usually incoherent and non-sensical, there is nothing wrong with being wrong, I just was a few moments ago, and constantly am, as are we all, however you have a serious responsibility to understand a religion before criticising it, and a much graver duty to be informed before slandering an entire group of people, you have abdicated these responsibilities, you constantly make unfounded, ridiculous, and blatantly conspiratorial assertions against Muslims, yet have neither the honesty to support them(the assertions), nor the decency to apologize to them
Most of the arguments here don’t matter, it’s just an internet forum, however when people make ignorant, biggoted statements aghinst a group of people, and people from the forum carry that ignorance into their real lives, then it becomes a serious matter, and I have no patience for people who contribute pain and suffering inflicted on good people
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