How would you try and change this persons mind?

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catholictiger

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alright so I meet someone yesterday well I’ve seen him before, but he had an argument with one of my friends and he believes that it is ok to kill someone if the situation allows it. Now I know that in very very rare situations the church says its ok to kill someone. Just war theory and self defense. But this guy believes the situations aren’t as rare.

Here is one example he thinks it would be ok if his Ex would have an abortion becuase he thinks she wouldn’t give it up for adaption and she wouldn’t be good at keeping the baby in good shape or taking care of it so it would be better to abort it.

Now the classic and good response to this would be to ask this guy is it ok to kill the person if he is 1 year old and in this situation. The average person would say no but this person would say yes.

He even thinks if the situation allows you should be able to kill an adult.

So he is in a since for assisted suicide

so when you run into these kinda people how would you try and change their mind on the issue.

The common trotting out the toddler strategy would have to be scrapped here cause even if you could convince the person that the fetus is a unborn human being they would still be ok to abort it.

thanks for any help
 
I would not try to change his mind. Either he is saying these things to provoke you, not really believing himself, or he is too far into evil to be reached. If he can really say these things and believe them…I’d leave him to God and pray for him, and not be around him.

It sounds like he’s OK with killing of just about any kind, any time, anywhere. Is he a sociopath?
 
I don’t know what to advise. That sort of utilitarian thinking is becoming more open and accepted. Peter Singer, the chairman of the ethics department of Princeton University, of all things, advocates abortion essentially up to several months after birth, allowing the parents time to decide if the baby is acceptable or not. He along with other utilitarian philosophers, would also not grant full legal personhood to the elderly and disabled.

The only reply I can think of is that if anyone’s life can be forfeited by the mere whim of another, none of us are safe.
 
JimG said:
I don’t know what to advise. That sort of utilitarian thinking is becoming more open and accepted. Peter Singer, the chairman of the ethics department of Princeton University, of all things, advocates abortion essentially up to several months after birth, allowing the parents time to decide if the baby is acceptable or not. He along with other utilitarian philosophers, would also not grant full legal personhood to the elderly and disabled.

The only reply I can think of is that if anyone’s life can be forfeited by the mere whim of another, none of us are safe.
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My God, what baby IS acceptable??? They pee and poop without regard to their surroundings, they have no manners, they don’t do anything useful and they wake us up in the middle of the night demanding to be fed. And many of them could even be called ugly. I don’t think many of us would have survived if this viewpoint weren’t so aberrant.

Come, Lord Jesus, come!
 
Jesus,our Lords peace be whit You.
Tricky situation. To change someones mind is one of the hardest thing to do. There is only one way,don’t argue,don’t make him/her feel stupid,go whit the flow,dive in and take it as it goes on. And You need faith. But don’t argue,even if You need to compromise something of Your integrity,don’t let that bother You now. And keep cool.
 
catholictiger said:
alright so I meet someone yesterday well I’ve seen him before, but he had an argument with one of my friends and he believes that it is ok to kill someone if the situation allows it. Now I know that in very very rare situations the church says its ok to kill someone. Just war theory and self defense. But this guy believes the situations aren’t as rare.

Here is one example he thinks it would be ok if his Ex would have an abortion becuase he thinks she wouldn’t give it up for adaption and she wouldn’t be good at keeping the baby in good shape or taking care of it so it would be better to abort it.

Now the classic and good response to this would be to ask this guy is it ok to kill the person if he is 1 year old and in this situation. The average person would say no but this person would say yes.

He even thinks if the situation allows you should be able to kill an adult.

So he is in a since for assisted suicide

so when you run into these kinda people how would you try and change their mind on the issue.

The common trotting out the toddler strategy would have to be scrapped here cause even if you could convince the person that the fetus is a unborn human being they would still be ok to abort it.

thanks for any help
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Make it personal. Example: “If I determine that your parents were incompetent to raise a child and that you, in no way, will contribute any good to this world and will, actually, make this world worse for the rest of humanity, then, by your philosophy, I have the right, and obligation, to end your life.”

All you need is a seed. 🙂
 
JM3 said:
Make it personal. Example: “If I determine that your parents were incompetent to raise a child and that you, in no way, will contribute any good to this world and will, actually, make this world worse for the rest of humanity, then, by your philosophy, I have the right, and obligation, to end your life.”

All you need is a seed. 🙂
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I have actually met people like this and they value life so little that they will agree with that statement. I know, it’s shocking, and I don’t believe that they even understand what they are saying, but I have had people say that if their own mother thought it would help her, she should have had an abortion.

I think it’s a reflection of the deeply problematic times we live it.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I have actually met people like this and they value life so little that they will agree with that statement. I know, it’s shocking, and I don’t believe that they even understand what they are saying, but I have had people say that if their own mother thought it would help her, she should have had an abortion.

I think it’s a reflection of the deeply problematic times we live it.
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i think this stuff probably started to come about from Jeremy Bentham if there was someone who had not positive affect on society he would argue that it would be better to either keep them locked away with no human contact or just kill him off.
 
It’s a front for a non-thinker. He has no philsophical base. My guess he is immature in all matters. If the right person is around, he might actually reflect and give a REAL answer. 😉
 
Explain that when we allow exceptions, the whole notion of the right to life is weakened. Without respect for life, terrible thigns can happen, like the holocaust for example. It is too important of a thing to allow exceptions and to do what is most useful at the time. This right has to be respected always by everyone or else we risk losing the basis of society.
 
Ask him what real contribution he has made to the good of the world. If he hesitates, hand him a .45 and a dropcloth.
 
I agree with most of the preceding posts. This person is hardly a human being. He is espousing the Nazi philosophy, which says that the elite can decide the fate of people who are not the elite.

That is not even logical and consistent with the pseudo-scientific notion of evolution as the survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest isn’t even valid. It is the merely adequate who survive, to begin with.

If this person is serious, you better not even try to persuade him of anything.

Alternately, this is the attitude of someone doing life in prison, who reasons that he has nothing to lose, so kills indiscriminately.

This person is the best excuse for the death penalty that you’ll ever run across.

I don’t believe that it says in scripture that everyone can be saved. The wheat shall grow up with the chaff and be separated at the harvest time.

But, don’t get me wrong. I would want him to be converted as much as anybody else. We all desire a world which is totally the kingdom of God. As the population of the world increases, we need the kingdom more than ever.
 
NE_Catholic said:
It’s a front for a non-thinker. He has no philsophical base. My guess he is immature in all matters. If the right person is around, he might actually reflect and give a REAL answer. 😉
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I agree with your assessment that this person is an immature, non-thinker.
I don’t agree that he might actually be able to reflect or give a real answer.

OP: Drop him like a hot rock.
 
I agree with the other posts that theres probably very you could say.

Just tell him to keep what he’s saying in mind when someone decides that HE is redundant. I’m sure he’ll change his tune when its his head on the chopping block.
 
Just walk away.

The world is full of people who are trouble and who are trouble-makers.

They don’t need help; they don’t want help; and they just make life difficult for everyone, often deliberately to get attention for themselves. If you don’t give them attention and if you avoid them, you will save everyone a lot of problems.

Look up the term: “agent provocateur”. **

In internet terms: a troll [is that the right word?]

Somebody who gets their jollies from provoking other people.

They skate free, but leave you holding the bag. And sometimes, you end up in a lot of trouble because they create a bad situation and you get blamed. Sometimes, they even turn YOU in as the person responsible.

Best advice: avoid that person. Just quietly absent yourself. Don’t engage them. Just shrug. If they come after you, just say something non-committal … “Jees, I dunno”. Smile. “Gotta go now, bye”.

Stop off at church and say a prayer for them and for yourself. Ask the Holy Spirit, specifically, to put the right words in your mouth.

[Basically, though, you can only change YOUR mind … not someone else’s mind. And if they are engaged in something that could end up as deadly or as a crime that you go to prison for , then you need to separate yourself from that person. Find someone who is sane to hang out with. Or just go to the library and do your homework. “I’m sorry, but I really need to do my homework”. And then just avoid eye contact. ]

** wordsmith.org/words/agent_provocateur.html

Kind of cynical, isn’t it! Getting someone else to do something they might not normally do, in order to have them arrested. Even more revealing: it’s French!

agent provocateur

PRONUNCIATION:
(ah-ZHON* proh-vok-uh-TUHR)
  • the second syllable is nasal]
    plural agents provocateurs (pronunciation same)
    MEANING:
    noun: Someone employed to encourage or provoke suspects into doing something illegal so they can be arrested or discredited.
ETYMOLOGY:
From French agent provocateur (provoking agent).

USAGE:
“Stanislav Beranek was critical over the creation of the role of agent provocateur, who will seek to provoke artificial situations in which someone will accept a bribe.”
Cillian O’Donoghue; New Pandur Purchase Inquiry Launched; The Prague Post (Czech Republic); Jul 21, 2010.
 
He’s a real-life troll. 😃 Just looking to stir the pot. Before the internet, these people had limited effect on others. Now…they have a wider annoyance zone.🤷
 
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