How would your 'dream church' look like?

[aristotle]

Because the nave of OLA is constantly being trooped-through by mobs of tourists, the Blessed Sacrament is reserved elsewhere (as it is in St. Peter’s and other “big” churches. At OLA the reservation chapel is tucked serenely into the south ambulatory behind a soudproof glass door. It is an intimate room where you will always find people at prayer before Our Lord.

A beautiful thing. It is unfortunate, though, the affect of tourism, in this way. But it certainly helps pay for all these beautiful things, I am sure.

 

[mercygate]

I just want to say how much I’ve enjoyed all the beautiful pictures of your dream churches. They are just lovely and even as my taste is more simple I sure appreciate these wonderfully elaborate churches.

OK. How about this?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Pretty… but for some reason, the image of the Theotokos gives me the creeps…

Photos often distort things, and the image is clearly distorted. Might be if one was closer to it, it would not seem so.

 

[Spiller]

You still haven’t told us the objective reasons why we should consider this building beautiful.

I just read that this building cost $200 million, so I guess your term “quite pricey” would fit. I don’t know what Dr. Moneo got, but if he got the AIA norm, he got $12 million. Perhaps he discounted his fee some, though.

Evidently the archdiocese of Los Angeles paid out $720 million in “priest abuse” lawsuits in the past two years alone.

The two together are nearly a billion dollars. Must be a very wealthy diocese.

Sure I did – scroll back…

The one thing I will never try to defend for this building – or other churches for that matter is the price of it. A great deal went to seismic considerations and furnishings (much of which I don’t care for.) I have been waiting for your attack to its price tag as you have failed everywhere else. I won’t even acknowledge your slimy attempt at co-mingling the cathedral and the tragic abuse scandal which in no way is unique to LA.

In any event if Moneo got $12M then Frank Gehry got more than $20M for Disney Hall a few doors down on Grand Ave:

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=93070&rendTypeId=4
Selah!

 

[Spiller]

Because the nave of OLA is constantly being trooped-through by mobs of tourists, the Blessed Sacrament is reserved elsewhere (as it is in St. Peter’s and other “big” churches. At OLA the reservation chapel is tucked serenely into the south ambulatory behind a soudproof glass door. It is an intimate room where you will always find people at prayer before Our Lord.

I know of a hardcore tridentiner who visited OLAC and was upset that he had to go to an adjacent chapel to visit the Most Blessed Sacrament.

Nearly 5 hours later he left the chapel – the place was closing. All he could talk about was how natural light shown on the tabernacle. Dr. Moneo hit another home run with his light shaft – at least per this one hardcore tridentiner.

 

[Spiller]

A bit too empty and plain for my taste, I’ll admit (plus the chairs behind are a bit distracting). But at least the sanctuary’s got a beautiful Crucifix and the angels on the Altar are quite decent.

As for that curtain-like thingie behind the chairs (I’m a bit confused; what is that?), what’s that supposed to represent?

I was there when the sanctuary was near filled with ~200 priests and deacons. It sure didn’t seem empty in that case and cathedrals need to take that sort of situation into consideration.

As for the seven tapistries:

*The seven tapestries behind the altar depict a schematic map of the streets of Los Angeles converging with an overall circular “Cosmati” pattern traditionally associated with the divine. Fittingly, a quote from the Book of Revelation is sewn into the tapestries that reflects the union of God and man here and now as the New Jerusalem. They are inscribed with the words, “See, God’s dwelling is among mortals. God will dwell with them. They will be God’s people and God will be with them.”

A hundred years from now Nava hopes people will say about his tapestries, “These people were seen as whole, strong humans, full of hope.” As he unrolled the “beautiful group of humans” on the tapestries sent from Belgium after the terrible events of September 11, 2001, Nava thought, “This is the time when you want to love humanity and see something that is really, truly uplifting and beautiful.”*

 

[Spiller]

OLA was paid for entirely by private subscription.

Yes it was. It was not paid for by archdiocesan savings or plate donations or even small fund-drives.

Anyone visiting OLAC would be aware of this as the benefactors are memorialized in an outside garden fronting highway 101.

 

[BennyBoy89]

Eh…why? I’ve never quite understood the point of them. Before you say it, yes, I get WHY, but I don’t understand the good of it. It doesn’t add mystery or respect…it just makes people stare a big wall while priests do mysterious things.

Traditions are only good so long as they serve as ‘railing’ to keep us on the roadway of salvation.

I share your opinion on the rood screen. Although I can appreciate it if it’s part of the original architecture of a church, I like the altar rail better. I think an earlier poster mentioned that rood screens were originally built more for practical value anyway.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sure I did – scroll back…Actually, you didn’t, but that’s okay. Just thought I would ask, in case you had forgotten.

The one thing I will never try to defend for this building – or other churches for that matter is the price of it. A great deal went to seismic considerations and furnishings (much of which I don’t care for.) I have been waiting for your attack to its price tag as you have failed everywhere else. ** I guess you can try to anticipate or even invent my thoughts if that pleases you. But I merely mentioned the cost in the context of commenting about the apparent wealth of the diocese. You are the first to critique the cost, not me. I said not a single thing negative about it. ** I won’t even acknowledge your slimy attempt at co-mingling the cathedral and the tragic abuse scandal which in no way is unique to LA. **My “slimy attempt”. C’mon now, don’t get the vapors. I in no way commingled the two. I merely reflected that this must be a very wealthy diocese, to be able to afford such expenditures and not file bankruptcy. I did not mention bankruptcy specifically, I figured that would be assumed, since some have. One would not normally expect a diocese to be able to build a $200 million dollar building and pay out $720 million more or less simultaneously without being extremely wealthy. I have no idea when this building was built, but it seems fairly new, and doubtless the diocese knew about the pending suits when it felt itself able to spend $200 million on the building, because such things are usually quite protracted, with demands and negotiations far preceding the actual filing of lawsuits. I saw your previous post in which you said this building was paid for out of private subscriptions. But unless those donors were from elsewhere entirely, which would be extremely unusual, one would expect that they were members of the diocese. So, any way you look at it, all of the funds for everything likely came from the same pockets. That would be an extremely wealthy diocese, no matter what column the accountants put the recipts in./B]

In any event if Moneo got $12M then Frank Gehry got more than $20M for Disney Hall a few doors down on Grand Ave:** Might be. I know nothing about that building or Frank Gehry.****

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=93070&rendTypeId=4
Selah!

I have no idea what Selah means. If it is intended to mean anything, please explain.

 

[patrick457]

I have no idea what Selah means. If it is intended to mean anything, please explain.

If Spiller refers to the Selah found in the Bible:

Selah (Hebrew: סלה) may be the most difficult word in the Hebrew Bible to translate. Selah is probably either a liturgico-musical mark or an instruction on the reading of the text, something like “stop and listen”.

The Psalms were sung accompanied by musical instruments and there are references to this in many chapters. Thirty-one of the thirty-nine psalms with the caption “To the choir-master” include “Selah” so the musical context of selah is obvious.

Selah notes a break in the song and as such is similar in purpose to Amen in that it stresses the importance of the preceding passage. Alternatively, Selah may mean ‘forever’, as it does in some places in the liturgy (notably the second to last blessing of the Amidah). Another interpretation claims that Selah comes from the primary Hebrew root word ‘calah’ which means ‘to hang,’ and by implication to measure (weigh).

ETYMOLOGY

Its etymology and precise meaning are unknown. This word occurs seventy-one times in thirty-nine of the Psalms, and three times in Habakkuk 3. It is found at the end of Psalms 3, 24, 46, and in most other cases at the end of a verse, the exceptions being Psalms 55:19, 57:3, and Hab. 3:3, 9.

The significance of this term was apparently not known even by ancient Biblical commentators. This can be seen by the variety of renderings given to it.

The Septuagint, Symmachus, and Theodotion translate διάψαλμα-a word as enigmatical in Greek as is “Selah” in Hebrew.
The Hexapla simply transliterates σελ.

Aquila, Jerome, and the Targum translate it as “always”. According to Hippolytus (De Lagarde, “Novæ Psalterii Græci Editionis Specimen” 10), the Greek term διάψαλμα signified a change in rhythm or melody at the places marked by the term, or a change in thought and theme. Against this explanation Baethgen (“Psalmen,” p. 15, 1st ed. Göttingen, 1892) notes that Selah also occurs at the end of some psalms.

 

[Ridgerunner]

OK. How about this?

Not Found :: New Melleray Abbey

Interesting, but I am having trouble figuring it out. I take it the altar is to the right, just out of the picture. Maybe the structures to the left are for chanters? The chairs on the right seem to be be for congregants, but they’re turned differently. I have seen monks’ chapels where they have something like “booths” that are turned at right angles to the altar. Is that what this is?

 

[patrick457]

Interesting, but I am having trouble figuring it out. I take it the altar is to the right, just out of the picture. Maybe the structures to the left are for chanters? The chairs on the right seem to be be for congregants, but they’re turned differently. I have seen monks’ chapels where they have something like “booths” that are turned at right angles to the altar. Is that what this is?

I think the structures on the left and right are choir stalls; perhaps the congregational pews are those on the far side?

 

[Spiller]

If Spiller refers to the Selah found in the Bible:

Well-done. Thanks!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think the structures on the left and right are choir stalls; perhaps the congregational pews are those on the far side?

Wish Mercygate would come back and tell us what this is. It just almost has to be in a monastery, which is the only place where I have ever seen a setup resembling this.

 

[aristotle]

Disney hall: another failed origami project.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Disney hall: another failed origami project.

Does it resemble the cathedral? Or perhaps, does the cathedral resemble Disney Hall? (since I don’t know which was built first)

The exterior of the cathedral seems to be covered in stainless steel or something. Is that what that is?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well I’ll be! Disney Hall and the cathedral could be cousins, if not twins. It, too, looks like it is covered in stainless steel.

 

[aristotle]

The “dream church” thread is turning from dream to nightmare, and much (most?) of this is my fault. That I find something ugly is certainly my right, but I shouldn’t be expressing it in this thead. Maybe I’ll start a “Nightmare Church” thread, but probably not. It lacks the charity this thread intended.

So I will stop railing on churches I don’t like, and start talking about the churches I do.

I personally love rood screens. The only ones I’ve seen in tact have been in certain old church buildings and chapels in London. And my ancestors were right dandy brits. I personally can think of little as beautiful, evoking all the wonderful springtime romances in my mind of knights and fair ladies.

 

[holdencaulfield]

I like how many of the Churches that have been posted have been Eastern Orthodox parishes. Ironic. This is St. Catherine’s Monastery in Egypt. It’s at the foot of Mt. Sinai. It holds the heir of the Burning Bush, and also has a chapel on the site of the Transfiguration of Our Lord. It is also the seat of the Autonomous Sinai Orthodox Church.

http://www.ortodoxmedia.com/ext/St[1].Catherine_s_Monastery__Sinai__Egypt__01.jpg

 

[SenorSalsa]

Disney hall: another failed origami project.

More importantly, it was a killing machine. When first built, the sun would catch the metal at a certain point in the day, and sending blinding focused rays of light into the eyes of drivers coming up on a busy intersection. It cause many, many accidents. They had to paint over certain spots with a dull greyish paint to fix the problem