How young is too young to attend a long Mass?

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JanetF said:
As others have stated, there is no minimum age for children going to mass. Now that I’ve said that, what is it with bringing food to church with kids?.

Also, when my daughter was little we sat in front so she could see what was going on. This makes all the difference in the world. They are going to be bored and then disruptive if they can’t SEE over all the tall people in front of them. Father, or God as she innocently thought he was, was fascinating to her. Children can be taught to behave. When she was about 4, I let her bring paper and pencil so she could draw pictures of the altar. Father loved that! and even hung them on his frig.
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And I’m sure that the parents who bring the bags of cheerios are raising their eyebrows about giving a four year old a pencil! We’ve seen those scribbles on pews, envelopes etc. Yes, children can be taught to behave. It’s that time in between that we all dread 😃
 
one is never to young to be at a Mass of any lenght. A baby crying durning the Mass Is Gods voice telling us we are growing. That said a 5 or 6 year old that can not be quiet needs to be told to be quiet and just as they would be at any other event were one is expected to sit and be quiet if they can not be I think the parents need to do as my father would have done and told me ever so quietly that if I did not sit still and be quiet he would make it to were I had a real problem sitting still for a long time if you catch my meaning.
You were fine with turning to look at them and placing your finger to your lips. the problem is you should not have had to the parents should have taken care of it.
 
I think all children should attend the liturgy fully at any age - I think my parents and grandparents bringing me to mass every Sunday and teaching me how to conduct myself was integral to my vocation. Sure, children might make noise sometimes (when they’re very young it can be anything from cooing to crying) but people cannot expect children to be absolutely silent; if the child is inconsolable the parent might need to walk to the entrance of the church with their child but by no means should they leave.

However, when the child is approaching the age of first communion but still can’t behave properly that’s problematic. That’s, almost certainly, a parental fault though. And those who misconstrue Christ saying to permit children to come to Him to mean allow children to act however they please needs to take a class on biblical exegesis. In fact, not properly disciplining a child so they’re properly disposed to submerge themselves in the liturgy to the best of their ability is, in a sense, impeding children from coming to God. Now I know people are going to misconstrue what I’ve just said, so I’ll clarify now: children won’t be perfect in liturgy (heck, I’m still not) but it is the attempt which is important. I’m one of four children and my parents use to have all of us attend the same mass; granted, some of us behaved better than others but that didn’t mean my parents faltered and through persistence (despite the difficulties) we all learned appropriate behavior.

I see this much more a problem in the Latin Church, though, to be honest. There seems to be a strange absolutely no-talking, no-moving, no-sound policy.
 
MorEphrem said:
I see this much more a problem in the Latin Church, though, to be honest. There seems to be a strange absolutely no-talking, no-moving, no-sound policy.
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I have found that my young children are much better behaved in the Divine Liturgy than in Mass, but it my be my perception due to the phenomenon you mentioned here. I think kids are drawn into the movement, the incense, the processions, the constant singing in the Divine Liturgy. The Roman Rite has a sense of sacred, prayerful silence which is not present in the Byzantine Rite liturgy and the truth is that the wiggles and whispers of little children can more easily disrupt that silence. I have a chronic cough and had an attack at Mass this morning. I felt that I was disrupting people’s prayer, but at the Divine Liturgy I never feel that way.
 
zab said:
. Yes, children can be taught to behave. It’s that time in between that we all dread 😃
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Yes! This is a lengthy process, more lengthy with some children. All you non-parents out there, or parents of grown children give the parents who are trying a little slack. Even if you remember that your own children were perfectly well behaved, chances are good that God has been merciful to you and you have simply forgotten those very, very difficult toddler years. (I think it is kind of like “forgetting” childbirth.) And if you were blessed with one or two exceptional children, count your blessings and extend your sympathy to parents who were not. My own 5 children have been mixed. Child number 3, now 7 years old, is still quite a challenge.
 
There are several things here. First of all I would wager that this family was there because like you someone they were close to who was being honored at that Mass and they didn’t have a sitter. Having 3 kids and having been through the struggle of sitting in Mass with young wiggling children is not fun and having people turn around and giving you dirty looks or even hushing you is not any fun either. Taking pictures at Mass is likewise distracting to others around you. Now when our children were in the young ages like this, we as parents did make different choices like sit in the back, on the end for the potty training years, brought books to look at, avoided long Mass like Easter vigil etc. Now maybe this family didn’t realize how long it was going to be, didn’t have a sitter and the kids were not prepared for the length of time. However, the only behavior we can control is our own and no body else’s. Sometimes when I’ve read some of these threads with complaints about people’s behaviors at Mass, I wonder if the OP’s of these thread feel like Mass would be perfect if no one else was around them. But that is not the case is it? Trust me, it is no fun to try and do the right thing in bringing young children to Mass and then get looks from annoyed people when you are trying your best.
 
Give me a break. The mass is about time with God; your time with God. There are children who behave very well, there are children who totally behave badly. Speaking out loud crying running around , and that is bad behavior. Just because you think your children are adorable does not mean everybody else does. 2 to 5 year-old children do not have the attention span for a two and half hour mass. As the mother of nine boys, and grandmother to 33 I have a lot of experience with children. But as every parent knows each child is different. One child will be fine while the other one will not and in that case you make sure that you take that child out of mass. There are crying rooms for children, and if you don’t take advantage of them because your child doesn’t like it then I wonder who is the parent here? These kids don’t understand what’s going on anyway. They’re just being children. But there are other people there too and you have to be kind and courteous to them and show your children that their behavior is not acceptable so you take them away from the mass and eventually they’ll ask why you do that and you tell them because you’re not behaving and you explain it to them they’ll eventually understand and will start behaving. It takes a great deal of patience but as a parent you have to have patience. Don’t make other people suffer because you cannot handle your children. You want to go to mass that’s very good and noble but if you make other people crazy because of the way your children are behaving that’s totally on you. Dont give me this drivel about Jesus and the children yes Jesus loves children. But remember this, Jesus was Jewish, and Jewish mom’s discipline their children and don’t tell me Jesus wouldn’t have disciplined his children if he were to have been married? I really do see so many badly behaved children these days it’s amazing, and the last mass I went to last week I saved a two and a half-year-old from falling head over when he was standing against the pew , I caught him and his mother should have been paying attention to him but she wasn’t, she was ignoring him. He was crawling all over people, it was insane. If any of your children don’t do well at mass then one of the parents stays home and goes to a different mass that’s how you do it the father will stay home with one of the children or mother goes with the other and vice versa if it’s a two parent family. If it’s a single parent , maybe grandma can help, brother, sister, friend, can help there are ways to do it. And if the father says he doesn’t really babysit his kids I say to those fathers hey it’s called fathering. You do your part to help . I could never have done it without the help of my 6’7" engineer of a husband. It seems that so many parents are working these days, that when they do have time with their children, they don’t want to discipline them, but where do they learn that discipline?
 
Lilli45 said:
Give me a break. The mass is about time with God; your time with God. There are children who behave very well, there are children who totally behave badly. Speaking out loud crying running around , and that is bad behavior. Just because you think your children are adorable does not mean everybody else does. 2 to 5 year-old children do not have the attention span for a two and half hour mass. As the mother of nine boys, and grandmother to 33 I have a lot of experience with children. But as every parent knows each child is different. One child will be fine while the other one will not and in that case you make sure that you take that child out of mass. There are crying rooms for children, and if you don’t take advantage of them because your child doesn’t like it then I wonder who is the parent here? These kids don’t understand what’s going on anyway. They’re just being children. But there are other people there too and you have to be kind and courteous to them and show your children that their behavior is not acceptable so you take them away from the mass and eventually they’ll ask why you do that and you tell them because you’re not behaving and you explain it to them they’ll eventually understand and will start behaving. It takes a great deal of patience but as a parent you have to have patience. Don’t make other people suffer because you cannot handle your children. You want to go to mass that’s very good and noble but if you make other people crazy because of the way your children are behaving that’s totally on you. Dont give me this drivel about Jesus and the children yes Jesus loves children. But remember this, Jesus was Jewish, and Jewish mom’s discipline their children and don’t tell me Jesus wouldn’t have disciplined his children if he were to have been married? I really do see so many badly behaved children these days it’s amazing, and the last mass I went to last week I saved a two and a half-year-old from falling head over when he was standing against the pew , I caught him and his mother should have been paying attention to him but she wasn’t, she was ignoring him. He was crawling all over people, it was insane. If any of your children don’t do well at mass then one of the parents stays home and goes to a different mass that’s how you do it the father will stay home with one of the children or mother goes with the other and vice versa if it’s a two parent family. If it’s a single parent , maybe grandma can help, brother, sister, friend, can help there are ways to do it. And if the father says he doesn’t really babysit his kids I say to those fathers hey it’s called fathering. You do your part to help . I could never have done it without the help of my 6’7" engineer of a husband. It seems that so many parents are working these days, that when they do have time with their children, they don’t want to discipline them, but where do they learn that discipline?
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Said Jesus never.

Seriously though. If you go to mass with this selfish attitude I wonder why you bother. 😦

Anyone who suggests children do not belong in mass is acting contrary to Christian doctrine.

Of course if mass is just your social club them I understand your response.

If you want silence go to adoration.
 
You know…

1000 years ago

People used to walk into the church in their one pair of clothes (rags by our standards)

They smelled horrific

If they got a bath it was once a year tops.

Babysitters??? None

They came in their humility as they were screaming babies and everything.

It was crowded and loud and smelly

So loud and crowded in fact that they started ringing bells at the consecration to snap people’s attention and let them know it was happening
 
Lilli45 said:
Give me a break. The mass is about time with God; your time with God. There are children who behave very well, there are children who totally behave badly. Speaking out loud crying running around , and that is bad behavior. Just because you think your children are adorable does not mean everybody else does. 2 to 5 year-old children do not have the attention span for a two and half hour mass. As the mother of nine boys, and grandmother to 33 I have a lot of experience with children. But as every parent knows each child is different. One child will be fine while the other one will not and in that case you make sure that you take that child out of mass. There are crying rooms for children, and if you don’t take advantage of them because your child doesn’t like it then I wonder who is the parent here? These kids don’t understand what’s going on anyway. They’re just being children. But there are other people there too and you have to be kind and courteous to them and show your children that their behavior is not acceptable so you take them away from the mass and eventually they’ll ask why you do that and you tell them because you’re not behaving and you explain it to them they’ll eventually understand and will start behaving. It takes a great deal of patience but as a parent you have to have patience. Don’t make other people suffer because you cannot handle your children. You want to go to mass that’s very good and noble but if you make other people crazy because of the way your children are behaving that’s totally on you. Dont give me this drivel about Jesus and the children yes Jesus loves children. But remember this, Jesus was Jewish, and Jewish mom’s discipline their children and don’t tell me Jesus wouldn’t have disciplined his children if he were to have been married? I really do see so many badly behaved children these days it’s amazing, and the last mass I went to last week I saved a two and a half-year-old from falling head over when he was standing against the pew , I caught him and his mother should have been paying attention to him but she wasn’t, she was ignoring him. He was crawling all over people, it was insane. If any of your children don’t do well at mass then one of the parents stays home and goes to a different mass that’s how you do it the father will stay home with one of the children or mother goes with the other and vice versa if it’s a two parent family. If it’s a single parent , maybe grandma can help, brother, sister, friend, can help there are ways to do it. And if the father says he doesn’t really babysit his kids I say to those fathers hey it’s called fathering. You do your part to help . I could never have done it without the help of my 6’7" engineer of a husband. It seems that so many parents are working these days, that when they do have time with their children, they don’t want to discipline them, but where do they learn that discipline?
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Give me a break- and give young parents a break. What makes you think that every church has a cry room? It is nice that you caught the little one from landing on his head. That is what you should have done. Maybe the mom needed a little help and a litte more compassion from such an experienced adult instead of blaming the mom for what took you a lifetime to learn. Everyone has to begin somewhere, just like you did. The better way is offer advice is to reserve judgment.
 
Lilli45 said:
Dont give me this drivel about Jesus and the children yes Jesus loves children. But remember this, Jesus was Jewish, and Jewish mom’s discipline their children and don’t tell me Jesus wouldn’t have disciplined his children if he were to have been married?
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This is one of the oddest statements I have come across. Jesus addressed children and he was not married. What does “if he were to have been married” even mean? As if his statements would carry some sort of different weight if he was married. HE WAS GOD!

And your stereotype of Jewish people does not speak well of your knowledge of of them. But perhaps even more poorly to your knowledge of history. If you think parenting was the same back then for Jews as it is now you are sorely mistaken.

I find your assessment of some bad behaviors spot on. I find your judgements lacking in christian compassion and understanding and I find your thought about what Mass is (selfish) lacking in theological understanding.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
This is one of the oddest statements I have come across. Jesus addressed children and he was not married. What does “if he were to have been married” even mean? As if his statements would carry some sort of different weight if he was married. HE WAS GOD!

And your stereotype of Jewish people does not speak well of your knowledge of of them. But perhaps even more poorly to your knowledge of history. If you think parenting was the same back then for Jews as it is now you are sorely mistaken.

I find your assessment of some bad behaviors spot on. I find your judgements lacking in christian compassion and understanding and I find your thought about what Mass is (selfish) lacking in theological understanding.
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Lilli45 said:
Talk about judgmental …
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How so? You posted something that was not correct. I pointed that out. So, yes, I judged your comment.
Do you have a rebuttal that does not include the ad nauseum cry of “you don’t agree so you must be the “j” word”

Well that does not work on me. And as someone who came in guns a blazing with her own opinion, I would think that you would have some thicker skin.

Honestly, I thought your post was the judgemental one.
 
In defense of the OP it is clear that she is venting out of frustration and is not in the “no kids at Mass” camp or “It’s all about me” camp. My wife and I have 6 children. Believe me there are times in which I could leave them at home because I am frustrated over their behavior (and I’m not talking about misbehavior, but regular “I’m a kid” behavior) in Mass. If I can get frustrated over my own children’s behavior at a regular Mass, I can well understand why someone would get frustrated over the behavior of other people’s children at a Mass that was special for them or their family.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
In defense of the OP it is clear that she is venting out of frustration and is not in the “no kids at Mass” camp or “It’s all about me” camp. My wife and I have 6 children. Believe me there are times in which I could leave them at home because I am frustrated over their behavior (and I’m not talking about misbehavior, but regular “I’m a kid” behavior) in Mass. If I can get frustrated over my own children’s behavior at a regular Mass, I can well understand why someone would get frustrated over the behavior of other people’s children at a Mass that was special for them or their family.
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Yes, I understand but I think what undercuts OP is that she was taking pictures which even in special Masses is discourage. Even with 3 kids, I do see both sides of the story.
This last Sunday’s Mass, we had the misfortunte of sitting by a family that not only had the usual wiggly kids but the 2 year old banged her toys the whole homily and then started throwing her toys around as well as got up and out and started running around. sometimes I think if someone is being that disruptive, the ushers could step forward to ask one of the parent to step out for a while. Likewise, it is about choices people make. If your child maybe the super wiggly type, sit in the back. I’ve done that. One Mass when our oldest was very small, we were in a church that had an empty section, so we sat in. Behind us then sat an older couple. Now we sat there because at that time, our oldest has more of a mover. While we did our best and made a choice to sit in an empty area, the older man yelled at us why we were there with our son. Now he also had a choice, and he choose to sit behind a family in a very empty area. If he didn’t want to be by very young children, then he should have sized up the situation and choose another place to sit. His comments and yelling at us as why we were even in church not only upset us but the other few people in the area that could hear him. We never went back to that Catholic church again. The only thing is that I think the man’s wife became embarrased by what he said. Should children be allowed to get so out of control that they are throwing things and running up and down the isles? Absolutely not. Should people shart shoosing and yelling at others because they have kids and are bothered? Absolutely not again.
 
OP here: When I took pictures, I ensured I was bothering no one, and snapped with no flash during the part where she presented herself to the bishop to affirm her commitment to service. I took a few other pictures from the balcony but the only people near me in my row were my parents (her in-laws) who knew what I was doing.

Keep in mind, I normally try to attend the Extraordinary Form where most of the children in attendance at the churches I go are for the most part decently behaved and any youngsters causing a fuss are generally removed quickly by a parent then come back when their needs are attended to (like using the bathroom or a diaper change).

I will have to check out a Divine Liturgy sometime as there are a few Eastern Catholic churches within an hour’s day of me.
 
Lilli45 said:
Give me a break. The mass is about time with God; your time with God. There are children who behave very well, there are children who totally behave badly. Speaking out loud crying running around , and that is bad behavior. Just because you think your children are adorable does not mean everybody else does. 2 to 5 year-old children do not have the attention span for a two and half hour mass. As the mother of nine boys, and grandmother to 33 I have a lot of experience with children. But as every parent knows each child is different. One child will be fine while the other one will not and in that case you make sure that you take that child out of mass. There are crying rooms for children, and if you don’t take advantage of them because your child doesn’t like it then I wonder who is the parent here? These kids don’t understand what’s going on anyway. They’re just being children. But there are other people there too and you have to be kind and courteous to them and show your children that their behavior is not acceptable so you take them away from the mass and eventually they’ll ask why you do that and you tell them because you’re not behaving and you explain it to them they’ll eventually understand and will start behaving. It takes a great deal of patience but as a parent you have to have patience. Don’t make other people suffer because you cannot handle your children. You want to go to mass that’s very good and noble but if you make other people crazy because of the way your children are behaving that’s totally on you. Dont give me this drivel about Jesus and the children yes Jesus loves children. But remember this, Jesus was Jewish, and Jewish mom’s discipline their children and don’t tell me Jesus wouldn’t have disciplined his children if he were to have been married? I really do see so many badly behaved children these days it’s amazing, and the last mass I went to last week I saved a two and a half-year-old from falling head over when he was standing against the pew , I caught him and his mother should have been paying attention to him but she wasn’t, she was ignoring him. He was crawling all over people, it was insane. If any of your children don’t do well at mass then one of the parents stays home and goes to a different mass that’s how you do it the father will stay home with one of the children or mother goes with the other and vice versa if it’s a two parent family. If it’s a single parent , maybe grandma can help, brother, sister, friend, can help there are ways to do it. And if the father says he doesn’t really babysit his kids I say to those fathers hey it’s called fathering. You do your part to help . I could never have done it without the help of my 6’7" engineer of a husband. It seems that so many parents are working these days, that when they do have time with their children, they don’t want to discipline them, but where do they learn that discipline?
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And none of your assumptions apply to the poster that started this thread.
 
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