Huge UGLY family fight...sorry...long!

[Lillith]

Over the weekend my husband and children went to my parents house for a visit, and all went well until my father came home from the Amvets (where he lives 85% of the time)

He was drunk and belligerent…it is helpful for you to know that he also has a superiority complex…he is right always and never loses anything (even as a child he wouldn’t let me win checkers)

My dad is a business man retired (during the 80’s)…my husband works for a corporation in the real world during cutbacks and layoffs. He is an Engineer, and if there is a problem with his company’s product (aluminum) he troubleshoots and generally tries to make the customer happy by fixing the problem and then schmoozing (taking them out for dinner, golf…whatever)

DH was explaining how some of his old school collegues take advantage of the corporate card by flying first class, eating the best places, staying in the most expensive resorts, during their experience…while he doesn’t believe that is morally right and cuts his own costs…anything for the customer but for himself a chicken sandwhich at Mcdonald’s for lunch is fine.

Apparently my father took offense to this (he’s old school) and flat out told my husband that if he were his boss he would fire him pronto…and he also said that my husband would be a failure at business if he didn’t change his attitude, and that he won’t be successful.

Stupid argument…I know! I’m yelling change the subject all the while…but it got uglier…My husband has a male Ego also…and really tore into my dad…saying things like “I already am successful old man and have made more money this year than you did in your best”…shudder…

They both stood up and got in each other’s face (almost coming to blows I swear) I pulled DH away and we headed home.

My mother called the next day angry at my husband…My husband refuses to apologize and is still angry at my dad…my sister called angry at my husband…everyone is angry at him…and I am backing up my husband.

This is a build-up situation. My father will say anything to antagonize me and my husband has watched it. He is an Athiest and continually brings up pedifile priests, laughs at confession (jokes that I can do anything as long as I confess), calls one sister stupid in front of me (another big fight) tells me I am damn lucky to have met Billy (insinuating I couldn’t do anything on my own) Joyfully made me the executive of his will knowing that I will have problems filling out his wishes…(no funeral…no wake…he wants to be cremated and thrown out with the trash at the hospital)

I heard that after we left my dad was crying…I don’t know how to feel about that…I am torn. On the one hand it breaks my heart on the other I remember all the times he has made me cry.

I just don’t even know how to proceed…

 

[YinYangMom]

Even for an athiest respect is highly regarded.

Regardless of what the topic on hand was or has been in the past, it’s time to draw the line as a matter of respect.

Talk to your father, without apologizing for your husband, to lay down the law. As adults - you, your husband and him - all should be in agreement that visits turn out to be ugly - it doesn’t matter who started what or why. Bottom line, the arguments stem from a lack of respect which is demeaning for dad, hubby and you, and which spoils the entire visit for anyone else in the room. As adults, you all should be able to draw a truce for future visits. Perhaps each of you need to write up a list of topics you know will always be in disagreement over and agree to not go there anymore. Then write a list of topics which can be considered safe. Next visit, when a “NO” topic gets touched, there should be a ‘clue word or phrase’ someone in the room can use to call attention to the fact that this topic is off limits. If the two disregard the warning, then you end your visit. Try again in another week or two, until it no longer becomes a struggle.

Seems childish, I know, but guess what? The behavior is childish, so that’s how you deal with it, as a parent.

My hubby and his father constantly went at each other’s throats over political issues whenever we’d visit. They love each other very much. His father calls regularly to say hello, ask how life is, to let hubby know he thinks of him, but when we would visit, one of them would raise a trigger button political subject and all hell would break lose - never physical, always verbal.

Well, once we had babies everything changed. I put my foot down with my father-in-law and my husband. I told them both that I will not have our children witness such hostility between a father and son. Either the two of them knock it off, by staying off political subjects, or there won’t be any more visits.

Two visits later, and ever since then, every visit has been loving, pleasant and comfortable. The one thing we can always say about my father-in-law is that he truly, dearly, loves little ones so he was able to control himself for their sake and I appreciate it very much. I always hug and thank him for the pleasant visits.

 

[Island_Oak]

I’m so sorry…I can’t even imagine what that would have been like for you. Is there a family member of your father’s generation who you all respect who could act as a mediator so you can clear the air and move beyond this? It sounds like one of those moments, the culmination of many smaller, unpleasant ones, which could tear a family apart if not mended soon and properly.

 

[Lillith]

Thank you yin yang mom and Island oak…I don’t know what I’m going to do at this point.

I wish there were some sort of moderator like you suggested Island Oak, but there just isn’t.

And Yin yangmom, your suggestion sounds reasonable but my father isn’t reasonable. Why on Earth would he want me to carry out his last wishes when three of his four children would have no problem because they are athiests also!? Why not pick one of them…instead he uses the issue as a power against me…almost like he’s getting some sort of kick out of making his christian daughter carry out an athiest’s belief. And I do mean every time I have seen him in the past six months he questions me about how I will go about arranging it and if I cry he almost smiles (almost) and says well…that’s what I believe.

I am at the point that I feel like leaving altogether. When Terri Schiavo was dieing and I was so upset, they wrote a will that states DNR…no tubes at all and they are only in their mid sixties…I think they are practising Euthenasia as we speak, my mother has had distention in her stomach and can only eat maccaroni and cheese, she has pain and will not see a doctor.

This whole thing is going to be hard on me…I just want to run so badly…I realize that I won’t get alot of responses to this because it’s too complicated and I am no dummy and I have no clue what to do but pray…

My husband was only reacting to what I have been going through with them, and I thank G-d that I have him to hold onto because this is going to hurt for a while…

I might like the silence that I have from the little pack of wolves, and i think I might let them stay angry at me for a while…just for a while for some peace.

 

[Tonks40]

This may seem like the standard reply, but I totally believe in this…talk to someone! Your priest or spiritual director, a behavioral health counselor, your best friend. There’s nothing you can do to prevent your father from conducting himself as he has been. But you can take steps to mend yourself emotionally and spiritually. Talk to your husband and don’t just talk about and recount what happened, but talk about how it made you feel. Acknowledge that each of you were hurt from this experience, but resolve to each other that you will no longer let these kinds of experiences affect who you are to each other.

And yes, Lillith, you do have a clue on what to do: pray. Pray for your family, especially your dad. He is a lost soul, and he’s not finding any comfort in this life through all the trials he’s going through. The only action/reaction he can muster is anger and resentment. Try very hard in your heart to forgive him. The peace of the love of Christ you have will start to show - and it can have amazing affects on the others around you.

I know…due to my own mental illness, and my husband’s battle with alcoholism. It got really ugly in my family, but I kept asking God for help, even when at times I didn’t get any answers. In time, He showed my that he was looking out for me, and I truely appreciate him for that.

I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Lillith,

After he passes away you can change who the executor is, not much of a big deal. I had it changed from my aunt to myself when my parents passed away, my brother and sister both had to sign off on it.

Even if you told him you were going to have it changed, he can’t make you do anything immoral by trying to re-write his will to stop you from changing it.

I’m sorry but he doesn’t sound like a very nice guy, if it is always him starting fights, arguments, etc, I would respectfully decline future invitations and find something else to do. Don’t put up with the attitude. Respect is earned.

 

[Princess_Abby]

Lilith,

I’m so sorry this happened. How difficult!

Don’t you have to agree to be the executor of a will or estate? If my father was torturing (and yes, it sounds like he is literally torturing you with this “plan” he’s cooked up) me in that way, I would simply tell him that like it or not, dead or not, I would not in moral conscience be able to follow through with what he has laid out for me. And, Lilith, you cannot. Don’t trade your soul and let your father control you from the grave. Whatever sick pleasure he gets out of asking you about these arrangements is not only absurd, but extremely controlling. Refuse to discuss things his way, and tell him that if he truly wants those wishes carried out, then he will need to remove your name. Tell him you will not compromise your morality for him under any circumstances. If he flips out (and he will) let your response be, “Sorry, that’s just what I believe…” I’m sure he’ll recognize where you got that one from.

Furthermore, you absolutely did the right thing by backing your husband up. Do not let your parents drive a wedge between your husband and yourself. Both your parent and your husband were in the wrong, and if neither can apologize, fine. But I certainly wouldn’t recommend any long, drawn out guilt tripping discussions.

I also wouldn’t engage in any discussion that is critical of my husband. (Such as your mother and sister calling, angry at your husband, but wanting to vent to YOU.) You are not the person to pick up the pieces here. Your husband is a big boy but you cannot abandon him, and your mother and sister don’t get to rip all over him just because they can. You have every right to be upset with your father AND your husband, and this little tiff might not ever be solved, but it can still be moved on from. A little time and space might be in order.

It sounds like you are honestly terrified of your father. That you love him very much and still would absolutely adore having his approval, but on some level you recognize that it is never going to happen in the capacity you want. Please get yourself out from underneath his thumb. Recognize his behavior as unacceptable and demand more for yourself. (Meaning, if that’s the way he’s going to treat your husband, then perhaps you don’t need to be spending very much time with him. Furthermore, PLEASE resolve this will situation!!! It is such a control issue it’s not even funny…)

I will pray for you.

 

[Shiann]

Princess_Abby:

Lilith,

I’m so sorry this happened. How difficult!

Don’t you have to agree to be the executor of a will or estate? If my father was torturing (and yes, it sounds like he is literally torturing you with this “plan” he’s cooked up) me in that way, I would simply tell him that like it or not, dead or not, I would not in moral conscience be able to follow through with what he has laid out for me. And, Lilith, you cannot. Don’t trade your soul and let your father control you from the grave. Whatever sick pleasure he gets out of asking you about these arrangements is not only absurd, but extremely controlling. Refuse to discuss things his way, and tell him that if he truly wants those wishes carried out, then he will need to remove your name. Tell him you will not compromise your morality for him under any circumstances. If he flips out (and he will) let your response be, “Sorry, that’s just what I believe…” I’m sure he’ll recognize where you got that one from.

Furthermore, you absolutely did the right thing by backing your husband up. Do not let your parents drive a wedge between your husband and yourself. Both your parent and your husband were in the wrong, and if neither can apologize, fine. But I certainly wouldn’t recommend any long, drawn out guilt tripping discussions.

I also wouldn’t engage in any discussion that is critical of my husband. (Such as your mother and sister calling, angry at your husband, but wanting to vent to YOU.) You are not the person to pick up the pieces here. Your husband is a big boy but you cannot abandon him, and your mother and sister don’t get to rip all over him just because they can. You have every right to be upset with your father AND your husband, and this little tiff might not ever be solved, but it can still be moved on from. A little time and space might be in order.

It sounds like you are honestly terrified of your father. That you love him very much and still would absolutely adore having his approval, but on some level you recognize that it is never going to happen in the capacity you want. Please get yourself out from underneath his thumb. Recognize his behavior as unacceptable and demand more for yourself. (Meaning, if that’s the way he’s going to treat your husband, then perhaps you don’t need to be spending very much time with him. Furthermore, PLEASE resolve this will situation!!! It is such a control issue it’s not even funny…)

I will pray for you.

BRILLIANT!!!

Remember, WALKING AWAY is also a way to resolve issues.

You can call them on the weekend to make sure they are ok, and tell them you love them, but you need not spend time with them or put yourself in a position to be manipulated by either of them.

PERIOD.

It is not your job to fix them, nor is it you or your husband’s job to be their scapegoat.

By the way- what does your husband think you should do? It is his advice I would ask first.

 

[La_Chiara]

Lillith:

Stupid argument…I know! I’m yelling change the subject all the while…but it got uglier…My husband has a male Ego also…and really tore into my dad…saying things like “I already am successful old man and have made more money this year than you did in your best”…shudder…

They both stood up and got in each other’s face (almost coming to blows I swear) I pulled DH away and we headed home.

My mother called the next day angry at my husband…My husband refuses to apologize and is still angry at my dad…my sister called angry at my husband…everyone is angry at him…and I am backing up my husband.

This is a build-up situation. My father will say anything to antagonize me and my husband has watched it. He is an Athiest and continually brings up pedifile priests, laughs at confession (jokes that I can do anything as long as I confess), calls one sister stupid in front of me (another big fight) tells me I am damn lucky to have met Billy (insinuating I couldn’t do anything on my own) Joyfully made me the executive of his will knowing that I will have problems filling out his wishes…(no funeral…no wake…he wants to be cremated and thrown out with the trash at the hospital)

I heard that after we left my dad was crying…I don’t know how to feel about that…I am torn. On the one hand it breaks my heart on the other I remember all the times he has made me cry.

I just don’t even know how to proceed…

Lillith–I wanted to comment on the argument. First, I am totally sympathetic to your situation. And your father is completely outrageous and out of control. But the bottom line is that you can’t change your father and your husband can’t change your father. You can change yourself and your husband can change himself. We ONLY have the power to change our own behavior, and if we are lucky, we can influence our spouse’s behavior (if our spouse lets us).

You and your husband should assume that your father is not going to change. So you need to change. You need to learn to WALK AWAY from arguments–both literally and figuratively. You need to refuse to engage! And you need to do it politely, respectfully, and firmly. No yelling, no anger

It is possible. I know. It took me years but I can have a “discussion” with my father (an extreme liberal). Even when politics come up, I can either debate or limit the conversation if he tries to bait me. For me, the first step was being able to end a phone conversation by saying “I need to go now.” I would just repeat it, adding “Good to talk to you” or “Talk to you again” and finally “Bye”. Of course, this would make him crazy because I was signalling that I was refusing to engage. Once you have mastered this step, the next step is doing it in person. But I gained such strength by doing it on the phone that I had the confidence to do it in person.

Furthermore, you (and your husband) need to be honest about your own role in escalating the argument. Once you can honestly recognize what you do that “fuels the flames”, you need to adopt alternative behaviors. For example, it helps to agree in advance with your spouse that “We need to go now” is your signal to each other to pick up, say good-bye, and leave. No further discussion, just go.

Recognize that you (and your husband) CHOOSE to be angry. Your father can’t MAKE you angry. He can provoke you but if you put up an emotional shield, you can deflect his emotional jabs and refuse to let them “get to you”. That is a hard concept to truly accept. But once you convince yourself that anger is something we choose to feel, then it becomes easier to steel yourself and not be angry–no matter what the provocation.

Hang in there and work through these issues. You will be so much stronger when you learn not to let your dad get to you. Help your husband to learn new behaviors too. Often, when we change our behaviors, we inadvertently cause others to change theirs too–so your dad may very well change his behavior when you consistently demonstrate that he can’t get a rise out of you. You will also be modeling good behavior to your children too. God bless you. And keep praying.

 

[Penitent]

I’m sorry, I haven’t read all the replies as they’re rather lengthy and probably very complete and informed! I just want to say being in a similar situation, I’ve come to think of relations with a certain person as a nearly-daily mortification and something I can willfully give to God. I don’t argue back, I smile, and I suck it up and say to myself, “Jesus, I’m refraining from responding for you.” And it used to be really, really difficult (given my nature). After a lengthy amount of time, it’s become easier to just suffer through it–it’s kind of humbling actually. Some people will never change and you did the right thing sticking by your husband.

Penitent

 

[YinYangMom]

Lillith:

Thank you yin yang mom and Island oak…I don’t know what I’m going to do at this point.

I wish there were some sort of moderator like you suggested Island Oak, but there just isn’t.

And Yin yangmom, your suggestion sounds reasonable but my father isn’t reasonable. Why on Earth would he want me to carry out his last wishes when three of his four children would have no problem because they are athiests also!? Why not pick one of them…instead he uses the issue as a power against me…almost like he’s getting some sort of kick out of making his christian daughter carry out an athiest’s belief. And I do mean every time I have seen him in the past six months he questions me about how I will go about arranging it and if I cry he almost smiles (almost) and says well…that’s what I believe.

I am at the point that I feel like leaving altogether. When Terri Schiavo was dieing and I was so upset, they wrote a will that states DNR…no tubes at all and they are only in their mid sixties…I think they are practising Euthenasia as we speak, my mother has had distention in her stomach and can only eat maccaroni and cheese, she has pain and will not see a doctor.

This whole thing is going to be hard on me…I just want to run so badly…I realize that I won’t get alot of responses to this because it’s too complicated and I am no dummy and I have no clue what to do but pray…

My husband was only reacting to what I have been going through with them, and I thank G-d that I have him to hold onto because this is going to hurt for a while…

I might like the silence that I have from the little pack of wolves, and i think I might let them stay angry at me for a while…just for a while for some peace.

So why maintain a relationship with your father at all???

We are called to honor our mothers and fathers. But sometimes we’re given not so honorable parents. In that situation, our obligation is to respect their guidance while growing up, but once you become an adult - particularly with a family of your own - then you aren’t obliged to subject yourself or them to abuses. You will always love your father, you will continue to pray for him and your siblings - **that **fulfills the Honor Thy Mother and Father commandment.

You don’t need to be around your father like this.
What are you getting from your father when you visit?
Is it acceptance?
Is it love?
Is it attention?
Is it advice?
Is it patience?
No.

Visit.
When he starts abusing the visit, go home.
Visit again.
When he starts to abuse the visit, go home.
Visit again.
If he starts to abuse the visit, go home, but tell him you will not be returning until he agrees to appreciate the visit by not abusing it, and that he should change the will to remove you as executor until he is able to establish a loving relationship with you and your family.
Then be prepared to no longer visit the man.

 

[Lillith]

Tonks40:

This may seem like the standard reply, but I totally believe in this…talk to someone! Your priest or spiritual director, a behavioral health counselor, your best friend. :

Hi Tonks…very good advice, and I have been…I do have a therapist, and we already discussed this issue…My husband and you guys! I wish I had a best friend to talk too, but staying at home with your children at this time in History seems to leave you isolated…

Nice to meet you BTW!!!

 

[Lillith]

Princess_Abby:

Lilith,

I’m so sorry this happened. How difficult!

Don’t you have to agree to be the executor of a will or estate? If my father was torturing (and yes, it sounds like he is literally torturing you with this “plan” he’s cooked up) me in that way, I would simply tell him that like it or not, dead or not, I would not in moral conscience be able to follow through with what he has laid out for me. And, Lilith, you cannot. Don’t trade your soul and let your father control you from the grave. Whatever sick pleasure he gets out of asking you about these arrangements is not only absurd, but extremely controlling. Refuse to discuss things his way, and tell him that if he truly wants those wishes carried out, then he will need to remove your name. Tell him you will not compromise your morality for him under any circumstances. If he flips out (and he will) let your response be, “Sorry, that’s just what I believe…” I’m sure he’ll recognize where you got that one from.

Furthermore, you absolutely did the right thing by backing your husband up. Do not let your parents drive a wedge between your husband and yourself. Both your parent and your husband were in the wrong, and if neither can apologize, fine. But I certainly wouldn’t recommend any long, drawn out guilt tripping discussions.

I also wouldn’t engage in any discussion that is critical of my husband. (Such as your mother and sister calling, angry at your husband, but wanting to vent to YOU.) You are not the person to pick up the pieces here. Your husband is a big boy but you cannot abandon him, and your mother and sister don’t get to rip all over him just because they can. You have every right to be upset with your father AND your husband, and this little tiff might not ever be solved, but it can still be moved on from. A little time and space might be in order.

It sounds like you are honestly terrified of your father. That you love him very much and still would absolutely adore having his approval, but on some level you recognize that it is never going to happen in the capacity you want. Please get yourself out from underneath his thumb. Recognize his behavior as unacceptable and demand more for yourself. (Meaning, if that’s the way he’s going to treat your husband, then perhaps you don’t need to be spending very much time with him. Furthermore, PLEASE resolve this will situation!!! It is such a control issue it’s not even funny…)

I will pray for you.

Princess Abby…do you have the gift of discernment? Because you hit this square on the head…really amazing. I really AM afraid of my father and I am seeking approval that I will never, and have never been able to recieve…

Thank you for your insight…

 

[Lillith]

La Chiara:

Furthermore, you (and your husband) need to be honest about your own role in escalating the argument. Once you can honestly recognize what you do that “fuels the flames”, you need to adopt alternative behaviors. For example, it helps to agree in advance with your spouse that “We need to go now” is your signal to each other to pick up, say good-bye, and leave. No further discussion, just go.

My husband and I did discuss his fault in this fight. He is an irishman with a red-headed temper, and he says that he wanted to humble (King Ron…what he has the grandchildren call him)…Billy asked me if he should apologize…I want to leave that up to him. I have decided that if anyone needs to talk it will be Billy and King Ron…I have this very childish fear of my father, and just the thought of talking to anyone in my family freaks me out right now.

 

[LSK]

Lillith:

Over the weekend my husband and children went to my parents house for a visit, and all went well until my father came home from the Amvets (where he lives 85% of the time)

He was drunk and belligerent…it is helpful for you to know that he also has a superiority complex…he is right always and never loses anything (even as a child he wouldn’t let me win checkers)

I would also point out to your husband that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who is drunk and beligerent. I am a sober drunk. Trust me, you were arguing with a chemical.

Your husband may have been hurt but it might have been a different outcome if he had remembered that your Dad was drunk. He might have said, “Golly, it sure is a good thing you aren’t my boss, huh? Well, good night everyone…come on, honey, time to go!”

I think you have been given some sound advice about the role of executor (decline it now, and state to your father that you will be stepping down from that role as soon as he is dead ).

My father never truly accepted me, my return to the Church or my sobriety. However, I must say he did accept my help in his later years. I believe, and I mean this with all my heart, that without AA and the Church my father would have died totally alone - but because of AA and the Church I was the only one of his three children that he leaned upon. Sometimes I felt pretty darn sorry for myself around it, too, let me tell you! (why does everything fall on me? :crying: ) But, I’m human so…and so are you, darlin’ - a BEAUTIFUL CHILD OF GOD. This is hurtful and causes you pain. You have a good husband - tell him it is causing you pain and ask him how the two of you can approach the problem. See if he will go with you to the Priest and ask for some guidance. He sounds, to me, like a real knight in shining armor for you.

 

[Lillith]

YinYangMom:

So why maintain a relationship with your father at all???

We are called to honor our mothers and fathers. But sometimes we’re given not so honorable parents. In that situation, our obligation is to respect their guidance while growing up, but once you become an adult - particularly with a family of your own - then you aren’t obliged to subject yourself or them to abuses. You will always love your father, you will continue to pray for him and your siblings - **that **fulfills the Honor Thy Mother and Father commandment…

I think this is where I stand right now. It will be fairly easy to NOT see my father, just visiting my mom…The harder part will be that I have to make a decision on thanksgiving, Christmas, and other Holidays. I appear to be the Hub of the wheel that is holding this “family” together, by hosting these events. Last Christmas my fifteen year old asked me to please not invite them because they make a sacrilige of Christmas…and they do. Not only my father (who says G-d d–n in every sentance) but my siblings with their co-habitating (two of the three are living with instead of married)…I always felt like I might be making a differerence in their lives by “showing” them how normal people live…I am so afraid for all of them…and it is this fear that keeps me driven .

BUT…as it turns out any form of evangelization will become an argument anyway…it is very hard just to walk away…but it appears that this is what help me in the long run, as I am obsessing over their lost states that I have no control over at all.

 

[Lillith]

mjdonnelly:

Lillith,

After he passes away you can change who the executor is, not much of a big deal. I had it changed from my aunt to myself when my parents passed away, my brother and sister both had to sign off on it.

Thank you…I didn’t know that!

 

[YinYangMom]

Lillith:

I think this is where I stand right now. It will be fairly easy to NOT see my father, just visiting my mom…The harder part will be that I have to make a decision on thanksgiving, Christmas, and other Holidays. I appear to be the Hub of the wheel that is holding this “family” together, by hosting these events. Last Christmas my fifteen year old asked me to please not invite them because they make a sacrilige of Christmas…and they do. Not only my father (who says G-d d–n in every sentance) but my siblings with their co-habitating (two of the three are living with instead of married)…I always felt like I might be making a differerence in their lives by “showing” them how normal people live…I am so afraid for all of them…and it is this fear that keeps me driven .

BUT…as it turns out any form of evangelization will become an argument anyway…it is very hard just to walk away…but it appears that this is what help me in the long run, as I am obsessing over their lost states that I have no control over at all.

Ahhh…so you see your role in the family as an opportunity to evangelize…well you gave it a good shot, but it’s not working and it’s negatively impacting your children. Time to put a stop to it, though never the prayers!!

As for being the one to hold the family together, that’s not your role…that is your mother and your father’s. If they don’t want to make the time/effort to keep the family together then that’s ok.

Even in our family’s situation…where each of us siblings have established their own families - the traditional aspect of the holidays is up to each of us to design/maintain as we see fit for our immediate families, not for the overall primary family. It’s perfectly fine to celebrate the holidays with your immediate family and friends you want to share it with. You are not obliged to invite your extended family members to your house. If they invite you to theirs, then you have a decision to make, but it will be rather easy if the visit is going to turn abusive. You go to the first one, as soon as it gets ugly you leave. What you teach your children in this manner is that out of respect for your parents you accept the invitation, but you are not obliged to tolerate abuse by them - that’s why it’s ok to walk away if the situation warrants it.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Your husband should have known better than to argue with a drunk. Sorry to put it that way, but I know how drunks are. Sounds like Al-anon may help YOU. As for your husband and father let the men handle it.

 

[LSK]

I’m with YOU, Lilyofthevalley - as a sober drunk, believe me, he didn’t understand or hear ONE WORD THAT WAS SAID…and of course he was crying, that’s part of being drunk. :dancing: