Hugging a friend

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I have kind of a strange question, what’s your thoughts on kind of hugging a friend while sleeping (or trying to rather)?
I mean a friend of the same sex.
I personally am SSA and my friend is that too, but he doesn’t know that, and I had him over and we were hugging in my bed when we were about to sleep, and I felt no sexual desire at all to be frank. It’s kind of strange in my thinking, when I am lonely, or feel lonely, I sometimes get homosexual thoughts popping up in my head and so, but now when hugging a friend lying in bed trying to sleep I just felt kind of good, can’t come to think of having any sexual thoughts whatsoever actually.

In my thinking there might be two problems with this:
  • People might think, if they knew about me sleeping in the same bed or so as another guy that I am an outliving homosexual, thus cause scandal
  • That my friend might have had sexual thoughts when we were hugging and so
I would call myself a very “conservative” Catholic and I am really concerned about my salvation, but frankly, I don’t see any problem with this as physical contact with other guys usually decrease my SSA.
Also, I believe that sports such as brazilian jiu-jitsu probably is a sin then too if hugging and such is a sin…
and also I am thinking, it is not uncommon that brothers share beds, if my friend and I are like spiritual brothers, what is the problem?
Also, I’m kind of miserable if I haven’t had physical contact in a while and I really feel that I need that too feel good (remembering that I read somewhere that hugs make one feel better)

Isn’t also people in the military sometimes sleeping together for practical reasons or such?
Is that wrong as well?
 
Avoid occasions of sin.

Stay strong.

Know that God loves you.
 
On consideration you may decide that it isn’t a good idea to hug anyone on your bed that you’re not married to or who isn’t very close family.

You can think you know others but we can never be absolutely sure about anyone.
Best not to put anyone in that position.

If you must hug a fellow male you’re not related to, be upright and preferably not in bedrooms I would suggest.
You meant nothing wrong so just leave it at that, don’t worry about it or him.

Hugging a fellow male isn’t a sin unless you did know he was gay and you knew that you were putting his peace at risk, but wisely, not in bed…unless he’s dying or something similar. I don’t men it’s never okay to hug a gay male. But if the circumstances are that it’s okay, still not in bed!
Its a matter of judgment, of potentially protecting others’ peace.
 
The problem is, at least in the States, that we’ve come to sexualize physical contact so much that it’s no wonder some people are jumping from one foot to another, trying to keep from sinning. Hugging to show friendship, companionship, approval, camaraderie, etc. is not sinful, but something that the modern mind is sadly losing sight of, a kind of love that C. S. Lewis termed “phileo” in his “The Four Loves”, the kind of love found between family members and close friends.
 
While I don’t think there’s anything wrong in sharing a hug or a cuddle with anyone - regardless of their gender or sexual preferences - provided it’s simply for the purpose of either greeting (plenty of people hug when meeting), joy/celebration (you just won a race or something) or compassion (an embrace says far more than words when someone is grieving, for instance), I think that you are very unwise to embrace a person whom you know to have attractions to other men while at the same time reclining on/in a bed with this man.

You know this guy is of homosexual inclination. He seemingly doesn’t know of your own homosexual inclination. Quite apart from anything else, don’t you think that with both of you on the same bed embracing you could easily be accused of leading him on? He may have been led into sexual thoughts and been frustrated because he ‘knows’ you to be uninterested in him, or he could well now be confused about your inclination and thus be worried about whether or not to attempt to pursue with you that which he has no opportunity to succeed with.

By the way, I doubt that your SSA friend is unaware of your own SSA. The likelihood of a straight male having a homosexual male for a sleepover in the SAME bed is pretty low, don’t you think? He may very well have guessed already… which only means that your responsibility is increased.

I would never condemn your desire for physical contact with another human being. We’re tactile beings, we deny our senses at our peril. But do ask yourself what signals you’re giving to this guy. And since you state you have no interest in a sexual thing, for his own sake, let alone yours, don’t share a bed with him again. The poor guy’s head must be spinning.
 
an answer I got from Courage Online:
"I think that physical contact and intimacy is a basic human need. When people are deprived of it, it can have negative impacts on emotional and spiritual wellbeing, and often contributes to the kind of unhealthy repression than can explode in unfortunate ways. This contact is something that people and Catholics in general really should seek out more. We, as same-sex attracted types, are perhaps better suited to it than others, since we’re already navigating a very different path than most Catholics, so there’s a sense in which we can make it up as we go along (while being attentive to triggers that are liable to lead to impure thoughts). I personally would be a bit iffy about doing something like that in bed, but if if was not a trigger for you, then it’s totally okay from that standpoint.

Just to address your two objections:

As regards “scandal,” this is a common misunderstanding of scandal. Scandal theologically means “leading others into sin.” You could make an argument that in this situation, you are liable to lead others in the grave sin of judgmentalism, but I’d be more inclined to say that it’s impossible to please everyone all of the time, and all you can do is tell the truth, and leave it up to those around you whether they believe you or not.

That said, obviously, it does become a question whether you might lead your friend in scandal in the proper sense, and that is an issue. I think the best way to address that question is by grappling with the fact that you are entering into grey areas, and need a frank authenticity to do so while remaining true to the ethical teaching of the Church. Make it clear to your friend that you need to know if someone is liable to be a trigger for impure thoughts for him, and if something is liable to trigger you, tell him. These questions always involve two people, and it’s always going to affect two people, so you can’t make a judgement on this by yourself; it has to be a joint effort in discerning what is appropriate, and what isn’t."
 
You have a friend whose a guy and he was laying in a bed with you?

As a straight guy I can tell you that we normally don’t do that sort of thing.
 
It’s just that I believe that all human needs human physical contact more or less, and I guess the question is perhaps how to do that without leading others into sin since I personally don’t seem to get sinful thoughts even when lying between the sheets in my bed with a friend.

What’s your thoughts about hugging/holding each other in the sofa while watching a movie for example?
Or being on the bed instead of in bed wearing normal clothes hugging/holding each other?

Another thought is that most of you perhaps don’t understand this cross and that it is probably better to rely on answers from courage online.
 
whatever it is my friend still it could lead others to sin so better stop it… saints lived without that so you could also live without it
 
Just thinking of Luke 17:34-35, it is a bit puzzling, why would it be written like this:
“I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together: the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left: two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.” if sharing a bed with someone of the same sex would be a sin?
 
john4christ80 said:
I have kind of a strange question, what’s your thoughts on kind of hugging a friend while sleeping (or trying to rather)?
I mean a friend of the same sex.
I personally am SSA and my friend is that too, but he doesn’t know that, and I had him over and we were hugging in my bed when we were about to sleep, and I felt no sexual desire at all to be frank. It’s kind of strange in my thinking, when I am lonely, or feel lonely, I sometimes get homosexual thoughts popping up in my head and so, but now when hugging a friend lying in bed trying to sleep I just felt kind of good, can’t come to think of having any sexual thoughts whatsoever actually.

In my thinking there might be two problems with this:
  • People might think, if they knew about me sleeping in the same bed or so as another guy that I am an outliving homosexual, thus cause scandal
  • That my friend might have had sexual thoughts when we were hugging and so
I would call myself a very “conservative” Catholic and I am really concerned about my salvation, but frankly, I don’t see any problem with this as physical contact with other guys usually decrease my SSA.
Also, I believe that sports such as brazilian jiu-jitsu probably is a sin then too if hugging and such is a sin…
and also I am thinking, it is not uncommon that brothers share beds, if my friend and I are like spiritual brothers, what is the problem?
Also, I’m kind of miserable if I haven’t had physical contact in a while and I really feel that I need that too feel good (remembering that I read somewhere that hugs make one feel better)

Isn’t also people in the military sometimes sleeping together for practical reasons or such?
Is that wrong as well?
Click to expand...
You already asked Father this question on XT3. He gave you good advice and I would recommend you listen to it.
 
john4christ80 said:
I have kind of a strange question, what’s your thoughts on kind of hugging a friend while sleeping (or trying to rather)?
I mean a friend of the same sex.
I personally am SSA and my friend is that too, but he doesn’t know that, and I had him over and we were hugging in my bed when we were about to sleep, and I felt no sexual desire at all to be frank. It’s kind of strange in my thinking, when I am lonely, or feel lonely, I sometimes get homosexual thoughts popping up in my head and so, but now when hugging a friend lying in bed trying to sleep I just felt kind of good, can’t come to think of having any sexual thoughts whatsoever actually.

In my thinking there might be two problems with this:
  • People might think, if they knew about me sleeping in the same bed or so as another guy that I am an outliving homosexual, thus cause scandal
  • That my friend might have had sexual thoughts when we were hugging and so
I would call myself a very “conservative” Catholic and I am really concerned about my salvation, but frankly, I don’t see any problem with this as physical contact with other guys usually decrease my SSA.
Also, I believe that sports such as brazilian jiu-jitsu probably is a sin then too if hugging and such is a sin…
and also I am thinking, it is not uncommon that brothers share beds, if my friend and I are like spiritual brothers, what is the problem?
Also, I’m kind of miserable if I haven’t had physical contact in a while and I really feel that I need that too feel good (remembering that I read somewhere that hugs make one feel better)

Isn’t also people in the military sometimes sleeping together for practical reasons or such?
Is that wrong as well?
Click to expand...
Here’s a question to answer for yourself: Could you ever see two Saints doing this? The answer is hopefully no. Whether it gives you temptation or not, it still can. Just because it doesn’t now doesn’t mean it never will. Eventually, you’ll find this conclusion: He’s here, I’m here, why not? And once you have that conclusion, it won’t be easy to decline. Also, you could be leading your friend to have these thoughts as well. Let us not forget the danger of having lustful thoughts because of this as well, and these too are Mortally sinful.

I would also recommend not hugging each other or holding each other in your arms while watching TV, because this alone can excite you sexually. Any close contact with one you’re attracted to will do this, and it will be yet another near occasion of sin. Don’t forget what you say every time you’re in Confession: “I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy Grace, to sin no more, and to avoid the near occasion of sin. Amen.” This is an occasion of sin for you, and it will lead you to sin eventually.
 
Have you ever heard of platonic love? agape? bromance?
I don’t view my friend as someone I have a sexual desire to and I seldom do have sexual desire towards other guys when feeling close so to speak. It’s when I alone or feel alone and haven’t had physical contact in some time that I seem to seek out indecent pictures and such and often have homosexual thoughts. Also I am attracted to women as well but I guess that I am not as comfortable being physical with women in general as I am with guys as I consider guys more of friends in a way and women, well… :rolleyes:
 
One wonders why you posted the question at all if you didn’t have some unwelcome doubt in your mind. You asked what people thought and don’t like what they said.

However, please don’t feel boxed in by a sense of criticism.
I know it’s hurtful when people mostly disagree with something you’ve posted.
It happens sometimes to lots of us, and it has happened to me too.
None of us like that when it happens to us. Hurt by strangers, when usually we mean well!

People are just concerned for your welfare and for others’ welfare.

No one’s saying never hug. Of course most people need hugs.

But please accept that all are agreed that a bed isn’t the place to hug, whether or not feelings are platonic. The bed isn’t the place to hug if you’re not married to the person and under certain circumstances, close family. Sure it might be needed in some life emergencies like in the arctic, caught in a snowstorm. But this was a choice, not a necessary, lifesaving instance.

A similar question came up in another thread today, about a male and female on the bed together. The OP got pretty much the same response.

Hug elsewhere if must be, but he’s still a guy and you are a guy with ssa inclinations. How do you know he doesn’t have such feelings. You don’t have those feelings for him, but it’s quite often the case that A is attracted to B, but not to C, but C is attracted to A. And it’s very easy for us to deceive ourselves in our thinking. Any of us can do that when we want something. We can do sleight of hand in our heads. Any of us.

By the sound of things, like a lot of young men, you’re nervous of women…that in itself doesn’t mean you’re ssa.
Anyway, enough of all that.
You accept or don’t accept the answer that it is unwise for you to have hugged on the bed.

May God bless and protect you, and guide you through life. 🙂
 
Thanks Trishie, I think your response has made the most sense to me.
I believe I have written that I also don’t think afterwards that it was a good idea, not because I myself felt that it aroused something in me, but because it might have stirred up thoughts in my friends mind which he shouldn’t be bothered about…

It’s just that so many people seem so afraid of human touch and that.

Also I am thinking although I am personally attracted to women as well that for people who just have SSA it must be really painful as they never ever should even cuddle.
In my thinking cuddling isn’t something sexual as much as it is something rather that is very loving and just about showing love to your loved ones… I guess though that I got another definition of cuddling than what the world thinks it is…
 
John I do feel sad that you lack hugs as a way of feeling cherished.
In the early years of marriage when my husband didn’t value hugs and we were over a thousand miles from my family, I’d end up desperate for a hug. However, that time passed and we returned nearer to family after several years.

I come from a big family where we all hug one another, and many of the family males don’t think twice about a hug, even with each other. My sons hug each other if they haven’t seen each other for a while. I’ve never seen them shake hands with each other! There are some other family members who shake hands with visiting male family and some who hug. It must be hard for those who need hugs but their family is not that way inclined. When my not very-well-husband staggers out from bed in the morning I always make a point of giving him a hug…but it doesn’t sound as if you have the luxury of family huggers around. Family visits…we all hug when we first meet and hug when we say goodbye, even with those who live in the same town.

I used to need hugs but not so much now.
I hope that you will receive a sense of being cherished.
Sending you a warm hug. It’s not the same, but all I can do at the moment.

As you are ambivalent, I do hope and pray you will find yourself able to wholeheartedly love a woman who will cherish you as long as you live. It doesn’t seem impossible from what you said.

However, I don’t believe that hugging is off the agenda for gay males. I know I hug my brothers in law with not an unwelcome thought anywhere near my mind, and of course that is possible between friends of either gender.
 
Trishie, well, actually, I do have family members that I do hug every day actually, not that many as you seem to have, but I’m really a hugger I’d say, I love hugs and such.
But for me personally there seem to be that I am a bit dependent on others outside my family (my family is quite a small one) and to me it is maybe some kind of proof that I am loved by my peers if I get to hug a friend and such.

Also, I believe I have written this before, but I guess it doesn’t hurt to write it again, if I am physical with other guys, I have very seldom had any sexual thoughts (that only happened, as I can come up to think of, years ago when I thought a lot of sexual thoughts in general, nowadays I usually don’t kind of start thinking of that myself, it just pops up in my head sometimes, and almost every time it is when I feel really, really lonely).

Some family members might be home but I can still feel really lonely and then I start looking at indecent pictures. Of course, hugs and being physical with family members mean a lot but it’s just not the same as being physical with friends.

I really wouldn’t say that I’m really SSA since it is mostly under certain circumstances, usually when I feel really lonely…
 
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