Hugging or kisses spouses during mass

[LittleSoldier]

Of course I didn’t mean I was happy because of the threat of serious illness. It didn’t touch me very much (because I didn’t personally know a single person who came down with it) but of course I was very sad to hear of the terrible troubles elsewhere, especially in Mexico.

I suppose I should have punctuated it differently:

I was certainly happier when we just didn’t have the sign of peace for a while (for H1N1).

instead of:

I was certainly happier when we just didn’t have the sign of peace for a while for H1N1.

It makes it clearer that the phrase “for H1N1” is only there to explain why my parish stopped the sign of peace, and that it was the stoppage I was happy about, not the flu. Because I would be just as happy personally if we never had it again. I don’t mean that I think it should be removed. I know that it is a useful symbol for many people, and for their sake I can see why it is retained. I just mean that, for the reasons mentioned in my other posts and because under the best of circumstances I find it distracting, I don’t like it. Since it is optional (for the priest to decide at any Mass whether it will be done or not), I don’t feel that I’m being disloyal to the Church by not happening to care for it, as long as I participate it warm-heartedly when we do have it.

Sorry, I thought the context of my post made it clear that it was the temporary stopping of the sign of peace that I was happier about, not the flu, but I can see that it didn’t.

–Jen

If you want, you can join me in the doghouse. I got upset over a post and was uh, corrected.

They stopped the Sign of Peace in my parish, too, along with any contact such as holding hands during the Our Father. Nobody held hands during the Our Father and when the Sign of Peace came around, families were hugging and kissing and people were shaking hands all over the place. I asked the priest about it afterwards and he said he’d made a couple of announcements but people absolutely ignored them.

What can he do? Yell “STOP!!!”? I thought the whole situation was bizarre.

 

[chaunceygardner]

They stopped the Sign of Peace in my parish, too, along with any contact such as holding hands during the Our Father. Nobody held hands during the Our Father and when the Sign of Peace came around, families were hugging and kissing and people were shaking hands all over the place. I asked the priest about it afterwards and he said he’d made a couple of announcements but** people absolutely ignored them**.

What can he do? Yell “STOP!!!”? I thought the whole situation was bizarre.

When you say “they stopped the Sign of Peace” what do you mean? They skipped it entirely, allowed only a verbal sign, or what?

And how did they stop “any contact such as holding hands during the Our Father”? What if a family or a couple would held hands, what would happen? And why?

I have been in some churches where the holding of hands was somewhat subdued or was not universal. And other churches where it was certainly part of the parish culture and was quite pronounced. Why does it have to be uniform everywhere?

I loved the part I bolded…“people absolutely ignored them” (the announcements). To me that is the Holy Spirit acting through the people of God. Why would anyone want to stop a demonstration of Christian love and unity?

 

[revert_jen]

If you want, you can join me in the doghouse. I got upset over a post and was uh, corrected.

And if we can attend Mass from there, we can give each other the sign of peace.

–Jen

 

[revert_jen]

When you say “they stopped the Sign of Peace” what do you mean? They skipped it entirely, allowed only a verbal sign, or what?

The sign of peace is optional in the Mass. It can be skipped entirely if the priest wants to.

And how did they stop “any contact such as holding hands during the Our Father”? What if a family or a couple would held hands, what would happen? And why?

Rather, they said that it should be stopped. Nothing would happen to people who ignored it, except they would be being disobedient.

I have been in some churches where the holding of hands was somewhat subdued or was not universal. And other churches where it was certainly part of the parish culture and was quite pronounced. Why does it have to be uniform everywhere?

There have been lots of threads on this forum about the holding of hands during the Our Father. It’s probably best if we don’t side-track this thread in that direction.

I loved the part I bolded…“people absolutely ignored them” (the announcements). To me that is the Holy Spirit acting through the people of God. Why would anyone want to stop a demonstration of Christian love and unity?

I believe in this case it was to avoid the spread of H1N1.

–Jen

 

[LittleSoldier]

When you say “they stopped the Sign of Peace” what do you mean? They skipped it entirely, allowed only a verbal sign, or what?

And how did they stop “any contact such as holding hands during the Our Father”? What if a family or a couple would held hands, what would happen? And why?

I have been in some churches where the holding of hands was somewhat subdued or was not universal. And other churches where it was certainly part of the parish culture and was quite pronounced. Why does it have to be uniform everywhere?

I loved the part I bolded…“people absolutely ignored them” (the announcements). To me that is the Holy Spirit acting through the people of God. Why would anyone want to stop a demonstration of Christian love and unity?

I think I worded my post poorly (and I’m already in the doghouse). I meant that physical contact was stopped temporarily because of the H1N1 virus. Because of health problems I can only make it to Mass once in awhile. I didn’t hear the announcements but I think the priest probably told people simply to not shake hands during the Sign of Peace or hold hands any other time during the Mass; to get the message of peace and unity across verbally. There haven’t been any plans to stop the Sign of Peace. I doubt that would ever happen in this parish.

I should have made it clear that the Sign of Peace is still there. It’s only the form of expression that was changed and this is temporary, although like I said, nobody paid any attention.

Normally during the Our Father we all hold hands. That has been stopped, temporarily for health reasons. I didn’t look around to see if anyone was holding hands (like a family holding hands). From what little I could see there was no holding of hands. I only looked for a few seconds because it was during Mass and I wanted to participate in the Mass, not look around too much to watch others’ behavior. But these people, who had stopped holding hands during the Our Father, were the exact same people who were hugging and shaking hands during the Sign of Peace, which was strange.

I don’t think anything would be done to stop people if they wanted to hold hands during the Our Father. Nothing was done when everyone was hugging and shaking hands during the Sign of Peace.

Sorry about the poor wording. I keep doing that!

 

[LittleSoldier]

And if we can attend Mass from there, we can give each other the sign of peace.

–Jen

Definitely!

 

[chaunceygardner]

The sign of peace is optional in the Mass. It can be skipped entirely if the priest wants to.

I did not know that; I don’t recall ever noticing that happening.

There have been lots of threads on this forum about the holding of hands during the Our Father. It’s probably best if we don’t side-track this thread in that direction.

I was referring to what the post said, otherwise I would not have mentioned it.

I believe in this case it was to avoid the spread of H1N1.
–Jen

I see that in her explanatory post. That and similar measures occured in many parishes, but that was in the fall and winter. I didn’t think that was happening any longer.

My general point is that these practices vary by country, culture, regional and local parish. To expect everyone and every place to be the same is not realistic, nor is it something we should want.

 

[tinalewis]

Sorry, I thought the context of my post made it clear that it was the temporary stopping of the sign of peace that I was happier about, not the flu, but I can see that it didn’t.

–Jen

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[tinalewis]

Here’s my take on this:

I’m just so happy during the sign of peace that I have to express it. I realize the intent is not to express happiness but to wish others in our wonderful church the peace of Christ. But sometimes I just can’t help myself.

If my husband is next to me, then typically we will give each other hugs and maybe a kiss on the cheek. If I’m alone like I usually am at weekday Mass I’ll enthusiastically greet whoever is in reasonable reaching distance. I love to look into the eyes of someone I don’t know and recognize the glow of Our Lord there and to shake his or her hand and feel a part of their lives for that one moment. It’s marvelous.

Where else can you go that you can greet someone you’ve never met and really mean it heart-to-heart? Nowhere I can think of.

Where else can you look in someone’s beautiful eyes and say to them “Peace of Christ be with you!” and not be thought a weirdo? Nowhere I can think of.

Where else can you gaze out over a large room and see everyone in the room doing the same thing? Nowhere I can think of.

The peace of Christ is wonderful. It was very sad to see folks afraid to shake hands during the H1N1 crisis. I was so glad when our diocese went back to “pre-flu season” actions and we could once again see an entire room - no, building! - of people hugging, kissing, shaking hands, all wishing each other the sign of peace and being His peace to others.

Look around and see your fellow parishioners this Sunday during the sign of peace. Isn’t it beautiful? Would you really want it any other way? Could you ask for more than this?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Here’s my take on this:

I’m just so happy during the sign of peace that I have to express it. I realize the intent is not to express happiness but to wish others in our wonderful church the peace of Christ. But sometimes I just can’t help myself.

If my husband is next to me, then typically we will give each other hugs and maybe a kiss on the cheek. If I’m alone like I usually am at weekday Mass I’ll enthusiastically greet whoever is in reasonable reaching distance. I love to look into the eyes of someone I don’t know and recognize the glow of Our Lord there and to shake his or her hand and feel a part of their lives for that one moment. It’s marvelous.

Where else can you go that you can greet someone you’ve never met and really mean it heart-to-heart? Nowhere I can think of.

Where else can you look in someone’s beautiful eyes and say to them “Peace of Christ be with you!” and not be thought a weirdo? Nowhere I can think of.

Where else can you gaze out over a large room and see everyone in the room doing the same thing? Nowhere I can think of.

The peace of Christ is wonderful. It was very sad to see folks afraid to shake hands during the H1N1 crisis. I was so glad when our diocese went back to “pre-flu season” actions and we could once again see an entire room - no, building! - of people hugging, kissing, shaking hands, all wishing each other the sign of peace and being His peace to others.

Look around and see your fellow parishioners this Sunday during the sign of peace. Isn’t it beautiful? Would you really want it any other way? Could you ask for more than this?

Beautifully said! All we have to do is make sure people understand what the Sign of Peace is. Even though at times I’m ignored, I would hate to see it go.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I did not know that; I don’t recall ever noticing that happening.

I was referring to what the post said, otherwise I would not have mentioned it.

I see that in her explanatory post. That and similar measures occured in many parishes, but that was in the fall and winter. I didn’t think that was happening any longer.

My general point is that these practices vary by country, culture, regional and local parish. To expect everyone and every place to be the same is not realistic, nor is it something we should want.

Precautions are still being taken where I live; maybe it’s because of the geographical location (coast of Oregon, about halfway between the southern and northern borders). I think it took the virus longer to appear here. I may be wrong about that, but we (and those in Washington, western Canada, and Alaska) sometimes lag behind other areas when it comes to growing crops. Also we are in a geographical area which is somewhat isolated because of a mountain range and the ocean. There are probably a lot of factors.

I used to live in southern California and people there have all sorts of ethnic backgrounds. Where I live now almost everyone is Caucasian and many people here like it that way and are very much opposed to anyone who does not have a European ancestry to live here, with the exception of the Native Americans who were here first and form a cohesive unit (many of those same people hate it when Californians, like me, move here and at one Mass a visiting priest made a joke about how beautiful it is here and how he would keep it a secret from the Californians - I spoke to him after Mass and let him know how unhappy I was with his comments). But having lived in an area where people came from just about everywhere in the world I can understand that cultural differences do play a part in communication.

I can’t really compare my present parish with the parish I was in when I lived in southern California. I understand your point. There are differences in how the Sign of Peace is expressed because of traditional cultural expressions. I’d forgotten about that because I’ve lived here for fifteen years. Those cultural differences should be factored into how the Sign of Peace is expressed.

 

[chaunceygardner]

Here’s my take on this:

I’m just so happy during the sign of peace that I have to express it. I realize the intent is not to express happiness but to wish others in our wonderful church the peace of Christ. But sometimes I just can’t help myself.

If my husband is next to me, then typically we will give each other hugs and maybe a kiss on the cheek. If I’m alone like I usually am at weekday Mass I’ll enthusiastically greet whoever is in reasonable reaching distance. I love to look into the eyes of someone I don’t know and recognize the glow of Our Lord there and to shake his or her hand and feel a part of their lives for that one moment. It’s marvelous.

Where else can you go that you can greet someone you’ve never met and really mean it heart-to-heart? Nowhere I can think of.

Where else can you look in someone’s beautiful eyes and say to them “Peace of Christ be with you!” and not be thought a weirdo? Nowhere I can think of.

Where else can you gaze out over a large room and see everyone in the room doing the same thing? Nowhere I can think of.

The peace of Christ is wonderful. It was very sad to see folks afraid to shake hands during the H1N1 crisis. I was so glad when our diocese went back to “pre-flu season” actions and we could once again see an entire room - no, building! - of people hugging, kissing, shaking hands, all wishing each other the sign of peace and being His peace to others.

Look around and see your fellow parishioners this Sunday during the sign of peace. Isn’t it beautiful? Would you really want it any other way? Could you ask for more than this?

I was trying to think of a comment that would equal what you wrote but could not, except for:

AMEN

 

[mick321]

“Others lament that they’re not getting their fair share of the action”??? I haven’t seen any lamenting and this implies that those participating in this thread who go to Mass alone are grieving and crying. I care about the Mass. After reading your post I thought that I’ll just stay at the back now, where I won’t bother anyone. After all, why do they need me? I don’t want to lament. I don’t want to be a wet rag and insist on getting my share. It implies selfishness. I don’t think anyone in this thread who goes to Mass alone has implied or indicated in any way that they are being selfish by wishing to be included in a part of the Mass in which they should be included.

This isn’t a high school boys’ locker room we’re discussing here. This is church, during Mass. There is a big difference. I really feel insulted by your post. “Fair share of the action”? That is not a nice thing to say. Really.

Then you say “we have a duty to be sensitive to the feelings of these folks too” but I don’t see any sensitivity to those who you say are lamenting about not getting their fair share of the action!

Firstly, I go to Mass alone. I arrive a bit early as do most of our small group. We come together daily to say Morning Prayers and assist in the Ordinary Form of the Roman Liturgy. We are there to worship and glorify God. Nothing less. When the SOP is exchanged [about 40% of the masses] it is done quickly and quietly. Those who wish to revise and extend their remarks are free to do so after Mass.

Indeed, you bring up a good example. We are discussing Holy Mass. Mass is not the proper time or place to frolic about, snap towels or exchange high-fives. Nor is it the place for luxurious, full-contact embraces, fluid exchange, and the like. To think this has anything to do with H1N1 or general hypochondria is to miss the point.

 

[mick321]

There is a need for instruction and clarification on the ritual of giving the Sign of Peace, especially in regards to it being done with “Ecclesiastical unity.” We all need some instruction and clarification on that matter and it would be a big help if the bishops would give us a common gesture that we should use. But in listening to instruction on this matter about what is and is not proper, one should be careful not to judge the intentions of others. Spouses and parents who give a quick hug or kiss to family members are not using that time to tell each other that they love them, rather they do so with the intent of offering the Peace of Christ and mutual charity to their family as well as to their neighbor.

Perhaps the ritual should be re-designated
“The Sign of Ecclesiastical Unity”

 

[zab]

Perhaps the ritual should be re-designated

“The Sign of Ecclesiastical Unity”

And perhaps you should change your name to Nick

 

[mick321]

I hope you’re right and if I read his post incorrectly I will apologize. I’m not out to start any arguments or fights (that really goes against any wishes of peace and unity).

But in defense of the people here who attend Mass alone and have been ignored, I want to say that everyone should be involved during the Sign of Peace and that it is entirely appropriate to note that this practice of ignoring people is going on.

BTW, his name is Mick, not Nick.

The SOP does not have to be the raucous demonstration that it has become in many places.

If you’re seated next to me in Mass, I will look you in the eye and say:

“…peace be with you…”.

I would now like to thank you in advance to save the handshake until Mass has ended.

Some folks still go to church to pray.

 

[mick321]

And perhaps you should change your name to Nick

You’re such a rascal!

See you at Mass.

 

[LittleSoldier]

And perhaps you should change your name to Nick

Absolutely!

 

[LittleSoldier]

The SOP does not have to be the raucous demonstration that it has become in many places.

If you’re seated next to me in Mass, I will look you in the eye and say:

“…peace be with you…”.

I would now like to thank you in advance to save the handshake until Mass has ended.

Some folks still go to church to pray.

And if I am seated next to you in Mass, I will look you in the eye and say:

“Peace be with you…Nick”.

Sorry, I just could not resist. I tried but I couldn’t.

Honestly, though I would look you in the eye and wish you peace and I’m going to make an effort to reach as many people as I can with the message of peace and unity.

 

[mick321]

And if I am seated next to you in Mass, I will look you in the eye and say:

“Peace be with you…Nick”.

Sorry, I just could not resist. I tried but I couldn’t.

Honestly, though I would look you in the eye and wish you peace and I’m going to make an effort to reach as many people as I can with the message of peace and unity.

Dominus Vobiscum.