Hugh Nibley- Child Abuse?

[RebeccaJ]

Only in Utah? Hmmm…I did not realize that it was the only state with “clannish” religious people… I think that no state or location is immune to being the home of people like this. Just like no religion is immune to having some members behave completely opposite of what their church teaches and expects of them. Don’t blame Utah; from what I have heard there are some very nice Catholics living there
Annie

Kevin Garn received applause from his fellow legislatures on the day he resigned from the House. Isn’t that awesome?

But no, I was thinking of the posters over at the LDS MAD board. They definitely were of the mind that the woman broke a “contract”. Never mind that you can’t break the law and make a “contract” with someone to hide the crime.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Don’t blame Utah; from what I have heard there are some very nice Catholics living there
Annie

Hmm, I don’t know, never been. But I was talking religion to the family doctor and she told me a funny story - in medical school her roommate was a Mennonite who was very sweet. She she spent spring break with this Mennonite in some large town with a big Mennonite community. She said she found them absolutely rude. Then she said her husband, also a doctor, spent some time in Salt Lake City for a medical conference, and he found the people there very rude. In my two years in the LDS church, always having a suit on, volunteering, even being the greeter of the ward, even helping teach the Gospel Principles class, I developed zero friends in the church, I assume because I was not married. So much for being so “Christian.” I’ll take some blame tho, I never had a testimony of Smith, I pretended I did, I even tried to have one, perhaps I had a 10% testimony, but deep down I knew he was false and bad. Perhaps the other members could see right through my fake testimony. Perhaps they could see I’m liberal and not conservative. The LDS church is 99.9999 conservative/Republican. Then again, perhaps they are simply cliquish stuck-up rude people. Probably a mix of all things.

 

[Annie_B]

I believe she was referring to his fellow “legislators”.

Although, when I was reading the articles on the Salt Lake Trib site, alot of the posters there were blasing the girl.

And my point was that Utah is not the only state to home people with the kind of behavior that was being referred to…
Annie

 

[Annie_B]

Hmm, I don’t know, never been. But I was talking religion to the family doctor and she told me a funny story - in medical school her roommate was a Mennonite who was very sweet. She she spent spring break with this Mennonite in some large town with a big Mennonite community. She said she found them absolutely rude. Then she said her husband, also a doctor, spent some time in Salt Lake City for a medical conference, and he found the people there very rude. In my two years in the LDS church, always having a suit on, volunteering, even being the greeter of the ward, even helping teach the Gospel Principles class, I developed zero friends in the church, I assume because I was not married. So much for being so “Christian.” I’ll take some blame tho, I never had a testimony of Smith, I pretended I did, I even tried to have one, perhaps I had a 10% testimony, but deep down I knew he was false and bad. Perhaps the other members could see right through my fake testimony. Perhaps they could see I’m liberal and not conservative. The LDS church is 99.9999 conservative/Republican. Then again, perhaps they are simply cliquish stuck-up rude people. Probably a mix of all things.

99.9999% huh? It must have taken you an awful long time to interview every member of the church

 

[RebeccaJ]

All he needed was polygamy to be a doctrine that was practiced and it would have been called a “date”.

 

[Annie_B]

Kevin Garn received applause from his fellow legislatures on the day he resigned from the House. Isn’t that awesome?

But no, I was thinking of the posters over at the LDS MAD board. They definitely were of the mind that the woman broke a “contract”. Never mind that you can’t break the law and make a “contract” with someone to hide the crime.

Never been to the LDS MAD board - thanks for the clarification
ANnie

 

[Annie_B]

All he needed was polygamy to be a doctrine that was practiced and it would have been called a “date”.

That is sick

 

[RebeccaJ]

That is sick

That is how the comments that LDS posters were making on this story came across. As I said, only in Utah.

 

[twopekinguys]

All he needed was polygamy to be a doctrine that was practiced and it would have been called a “date”.

:bowdown::tiphat:

Sorry, but that was funny.

 

[RebeccaJ]

:bowdown::tiphat:

Sorry, but that was funny.

I can’t take the credit. One of the presentations at the Sunstone conference this past weekend was titled “Dating Fanny Alger”.

At least the LDS posters who were defending Kevin Garn weren’t hypocrites.

 

[Returning_Home]

She claims she has always had detailed memories of physical trauma that was a result of the sexual abuse. What she repressed is what caused the physical trauma.

The Nibley family has very good reasons to circle the wagons around their father.

I’ve read her book. She gives a witness to her experience. That’s about all a person can do. In her circumstance, the rest is up to God.

I don’t particularly like Nibley either for his twisting and disregarding of facts, but if this entire case revolves around ‘recovered memories,’ we then have to give credence to allegations of SRA (Satanic Ritual Abuse) in the LDS as well.

 

[dianaiad]

Wow…if Nibley was not LDS, Diana would be supporting the daughter.

Would I?

More, exactly WHAT is my position regarding the ‘priest sex scandals,’ again?

The best defense in these cases is to attack the victim. Diana does that…calling her mentally ill.

The point is, she’s a victim of her illness, not of her father. Would you concede THAT possibility, or is the fact that Nibley himself is too promising a target (being Mormon and a leader and all that) NOT to use such handy, even if it is bogus, unethical and harmful. ammunition?

More, I know more about what NIbley’s daughter is going through than most people; I’ve seen this…and the very term ‘recovered memory’ should send anybody running as far away from using this to attack ANYBODY as it’s possible to go.

Or didn’t anybody learn anything from the McMartin case?

Maybe it was the abuse that caused her mental illness, if indeed she has one. I watched an interview of her…she certainly did not appear mentall ill.

What, you mean she didn’t drool, run around in circles and have two burley men ready to fasten the buckles on her stylish straightjacket? C’mon…what do you think mental illness LOOKS like?

I am not saying it happened. I am not saying it did not. I am saying that the denials by the family mean little to me, based on my experience.

But, the types of attacks against her, sure make it seem more likely she told the truth

Now, If I were ATTACKING her, I would be saying the sorts of things you guys are…like it is delberate, or that OF COURSE she’s doing this on purpose because she hated her father and her husband and is gay so is bitter against the church and wants to get even.

(shrug) That is just as likely a scenario as that everything she writes is absolute truth.

The problem is, according to those who know and love her, including her ex-husband who left the church before she did, and who supported her in most things, she’s mentally ill. Her therapists compounded the problem by manufacturing these ‘recalled’ memories…and you DO realize that courts nowdays are throwing those things out left and right as being notoriously inaccurate.

I read her stuff, and if I close my eyes I can hear my cousin; same sort of accusations. Same range of stories. Same sort of obsessions, fantasy thinking, complete with ‘recovered memories’ of events that were simply impossible–like the one where she insists her father raped her when she was in Utah and he was in Australia.

I"m not attacking this woman. I’m actually defending her. She’s not some rabid anti out to get even. She is ill…and that’s not a character fault.

 

[SirThomasMore]

So now we have both Catholic and LDS Apologists defending child abusers, where are you trying to go with this discover?

could you please list the people on this thread defending child abusers?

 

[SirThomasMore]

]Would I?

wow…and here I took at your word that you ignored me. As I have the plethora of times you have said you ignore me, then respond to me. And yes, I think you would

More, exactly WHAT is my position regarding the ‘priest sex scandals,’ again?

Dunno…typically you use the Priest scandal to deflect from LDS issues

The point is, she’s a victim of her illness, not of her father. Would you concede THAT possibility, or is the fact that Nibley himself is too promising a target (being Mormon and a leader and all that) NOT to use such handy, even if it is bogus, unethical and harmful. ammunition?

I have stated all along that I do not know if she is truthful or not. I stated that, with my experience as a prosecutor, rarely do females make it up. When the family and other people, like you, attack the victim, it lends credibility to the victim. As for the Priest scandals, do I believe that the Priests did it? Absolutely. And every guilty priest should be in prison, and every bishop who hid it should be held accountable. Do I believe that every victim was trully a victim? Nope. I believe many saw the potential of alot of money and made false claims. I know of some. But here, we have a female who made the accusation, and because it is Nibley, people like you automatically dismiss it and attack her

More, I know more about what NIbley’s daughter is going through than most people; I’ve seen this…and the very term ‘recovered memory’ should send anybody running as far away from using this to attack ANYBODY as it’s possible to go.

lol…then you really do not know more than most people. After you have proisecuted some these cases, or defended them, let me know. In the meantime, you are just an apologist defending Nibley

What, you mean she didn’t drool, run around in circles and have two burley men ready to fasten the buckles on her stylish straightjacket? C’mon…what do you think mental illness LOOKS like?

Did you truly not understand my point? I am sorry. I will type more slowly. I believe that, having read her book AND seeing her in interviews, that she is no more mentally ill than you are. One can be mentally ill and still tell the truth. One can be mentally ill and still function and be honest. By the same token, one can have no mental illness and do something like tell a person he is on ignore, then continually respond to his posts.

Now, If I were ATTACKING her, I would be saying the sorts of things you guys are…like it is delberate, or that OF COURSE she’s doing this on purpose because she hated her father and her husband and is gay so is bitter against the church and wants to get even.

(shrug) That is just as likely a scenario as that everything she writes is absolute truth.

No, you would just dismiss it out of hand and say she has a mental illness. Oh…wait…you already did that.

The problem is, according to those who know and love her, including her ex-husband who left the church before she did, and who supported her in most things, she’s mentally ill. Her therapists compounded the problem by manufacturing these ‘recalled’ memories…and you DO realize that courts nowdays are throwing those things out left and right as being notoriously inaccurate.

Ah yes…from the other kids of Nibley. Like I said, that means nothing. I have seen that over and over. Means nothing. Show me a medical report that shows she is mentally to support your contention. Otherwise, you are just gossiping and bearing false witness

I read her stuff, and if I close my eyes I can hear my cousin; same sort of accusations. Same range of stories. Same sort of obsessions, fantasy thinking, complete with ‘recovered memories’ of events that were simply impossible–like the one where she insists her father raped her when she was in Utah and he was in Australia.

I agree…you keep your eyes closed.

I"m not attacking this woman. I’m actually defending her. She’s not some rabid anti out to get even. She is ill…and that’s not a character fault.

I will be waiting for a copy of the medical report

 

[RebeccaJ]

if this entire case revolves around ‘recovered memories,’

It doesn’t.

“Recovered memories” as most people use the term are memories brought out by therapy. This is not the experience of Beck.

 

[Pahoran]

I have been aware of this story since it first appeared.

There are a number of serious evidentiary problems with Ms. Beck’s claims. Sunstone, which is largely a forum for disaffected and/or fringe Mormon views, reviewed her book and gave it a pasting. Anyone wanting to dismiss them as being merely “Mormon apologists” will be doing so from a position of complete ignorance.

Ms. Beck made outrageous claims about Utah culture and LDS life and teaching which can be checked. They have been checked. They don’t check out.

Just one example: she claimed that she had personally gone looking in the Harold B. Lee Library at BYU for articles about Sonia Johnson, another ex-Mormon feminist. She claims to have located the actual periodicals in question, but that the articles had all been excised.

Subsequent researchers checked up on her claim. She was, to put it charitably, um, “wrong.”

She claimed that her father molested her repeatedly over a period of years, in a small bedroom that she shared with her two sisters. She, incidentally, slept on the top bunk and one of her sisters on the bottom bunk. It is highly unlikely that this could have gone on – for years – without being detected. Both of her sisters say that her story is bunk.

She neglects to mention that, when she was a child, she really was molested – by a neighbour boy. Her father apparently interrupted the event and, of course, put a stop to it.

Contra RebeccaJ’s confident pronouncement, she has given conflicting versions of how she managed to “recover” her “memories” of the alleged abuse. Her sisters report that she told them that she “recovered” them using self-hypnosis, and kept urging them to try the same process.

She repeatedly insists that her life will be in mortal danger from “someone” or other in the Church.

She’s either making that up, or she is delusional.

Sorry, Sir Thomas Cromwell, but you wouldn’t want her as a witness for your side. You’d much rather have her as a witness for the defence.

And just one last observation: there’s this old saying about people who live in glass houses; how does it go again?

Regards,
Pahoran

 

[Annie_B]

I was browsing books on amazon and I looked up some ex-Mormon books. I found a book by a Martha Beck. I read she is the daughter of Hugh Nibley. The reviews said she claimed
her dad, Hugh Nibley, sexually molested her.

Wow. I had no idea or never heard this story. When I punch in Fawn Brodie there is a site,
fawnbrodie.com/brodie/ and it takes you to writings by Hugh Nibley. I find that disgusting. Anyway, the great Mormon defender is a child molester? Do most LDS deny
this accusation? I feel sorry for Martha Beck.

Do most Mormons hate her? Like Fawn Brodie, she sounds like a true brave person.

amazon.com/Leaving-Saints-Mormons-Found-Faith/dp/0307335992/ref=pd_sim_b_5

Do Most Mormons hate her? Hmmmm…Probably about as much as most Catholics hate the victims of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy who tell about their experiences…In other words NO!
Annie

 

[Annie_B]

Do Most Mormons hate her? Hmmmm…Probably about as much as most Catholics hate the victims of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy who tell about their experiences…In other words NO!
Annie

If you think about it - why would anyone hate a person who either actually did suffer the abuse they claim or just imagined it? Either way they are somone to pitty and they obviously need some sort of loving support for WHATEVER the real problem is!
Annie

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Just one example: she claimed that she had personally gone looking in the Harold B. Lee Library at BYU for articles about Sonia Johnson, another ex-Mormon feminist. She claims to have located the actual periodicals in question, but that the articles had all been excised.

Subsequent researchers checked up on her claim. She was, to put it charitably, um, “wrong.”

Never been to the library but it would not surprise me they would do this since they push
any criticism at the church is a lie and from satan or his agents. Maybe they put the periodicals back after her claims came out.

 

[Pahoran]

Never been to the library but it would not surprise me they would do this since they push
any criticism at the church is a lie and from satan or his agents.

So, being cheerfully ignorant of the facts, still you’re prepared to believe a proven falsehood because you wouldn’t put it past them. Or something.

This, Sir, is what is known as “mere prejudice.” I suppose when facts don’t support you, and you don’t even know what they are anyway, prejudice will just have to do.

Maybe they put the periodicals back after her claims came out.

Did you even read my post? According to Martha, she found the periodicals; it was the articles that had supposedly been excised. According to her, someone spent thousands of hours going through all the microfilms, cutting out the articles and splicing them together again. And now, as if that wasn’t hilarious enough, we are supposed to believe that someone else – or the same someone – spent thousands more hours seamlessly restoring them again.

How deep into idiotic conspiracy theories would you have to be to believe such Dreck? Is your tinfoil hat in place?

Regards,
Pahoran