Human person

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jim_Baur
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jim_Baur

Guest
Is there an official teaching by the Catholic Church as to when God infuses the human soul?

When are we said to be a human person by the official teachings of the Church?

I know that the questions are almost the same, sorry.

THANKS!
 
From the Catechism:

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.

From the context of this passage, I would say that both happen at the moment of conception.
 
Yes, it is at conception. That’s why Catholics are focused in our right-to-life on the unborn, the most vulnerable in our midst.
 
Jim_Baur said:
Is there an official teaching by the Catholic Church as to when God infuses the human soul?

When are we said to be a human person by the official teachings of the Church?

I know that the questions are almost the same, sorry.

THANKS!
Click to expand...
CCC 366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.

CCC 1711 Endowed with a spiritual soul, with intellect and with free will, the human person is from his very conception ordered to God and destined for eternal beatitude. He pursues his perfection in “seeking and loving what is true and good” (GS 15 § 2).
 
Little_Mary said:
At conception.
Click to expand...
If the soul is infused at the moment of conception, then what does that say about identical twins? They start out as a single conception, but somewhere along the line the embrybo divides into two distinct individuals. Does the soul divide at that time? Or did God infuse two souls at the beginnng in anticipation of the split?

I don’t think soul infusion at conception is a necessary consequence of the dogma on the dignity of the human person. Historically the Church has not stated definitively when soul infuse occurs. Some early Church fathers speculated that perhaps it occurs at the time of quickening, that is when the baby first begins to move, but it is only speculation.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
If the soul is infused at the moment of conception, then what does that say about identical twins? They start out as a single conception, but somewhere along the line the embrybo divides into two distinct individuals. Does the soul divide at that time? Or did God infuse two souls at the beginnng in anticipation of the split?

I don’t think soul infusion at conception is a necessary consequence of the dogma on the dignity of the human person. Historically the Church has not stated definitively when soul infuse occurs. Some early Church fathers speculated that perhaps it occurs at the time of quickening, that is when the baby first begins to move, but it is only speculation.
Click to expand...
That being the case, IF we don’t know for certain, then far better to err on the side of caution, thus…

at conception.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
If the soul is infused at the moment of conception, then what does that say about identical twins? They start out as a single conception, but somewhere along the line the embrybo divides into two distinct individuals. Does the soul divide at that time? Or did God infuse two souls at the beginnng in anticipation of the split?

I don’t think soul infusion at conception is a necessary consequence of the dogma on the dignity of the human person. Historically the Church has not stated definitively when soul infuse occurs. Some early Church fathers speculated that perhaps it occurs at the time of quickening, that is when the baby first begins to move, but it is only speculation.
Click to expand...
The Church teaches that life begins at conception and the Church teaches that the soul is created immediately. What is unclear about that?
 
The Church teaches that life begins at conception–I don’t believe the Church has definitively stated the soul is infused at conception.

For example, what about all the frozen embryos?
 
wjp984 said:
The Church teaches that life begins at conception–I don’t believe the Church has definitively stated the soul is infused at conception.

For example, what about all the frozen embryos?
Click to expand...
An embryo is as much a human as we are. This is one of the reasons the church speaks out against IVF.
 
Re: identical twins…as far as I’m concerned, God knows what He’s doing. This is his project, not mine, and He knows even BEFORE conception that identical twins will be born. Their souls are there, God is in control. That’s all I need to know.

Re: frozen embryos…they are frozen human beings with souls and the parents have a moral obligation to give every single one of them a CHANCE at life.
 
Little_Mary said:
Re: frozen embryos…they are frozen human beings with souls and the parents have a moral obligation to give every single one of them a CHANCE at life.
Click to expand...
That’s where the problem lies…Church is against embryo implantation but that seems to be the only way to save these lives.

Goes to show the can-o-worms that technology can sometimes open.
 
Little_Mary said:
Re: identical twins…as far as I’m concerned, God knows what He’s doing. This is his project, not mine, and He knows even BEFORE conception that identical twins will be born. Their souls are there, God is in control. That’s all I need to know.
Click to expand...
Right. Therefore this whole question of knowing exactly when God creates a soul and attaches it to a body is irrelevant to my life of faith - like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I only brought up identical twins to show that the question is not obvious. But as you point out, not only is it not obvious, it should not become a stumbling block to our life of faith. It would be a shame if someone were to come to doubt the whole salvation message just because of difficulties in the consideration of this one irrelevant question.
 
Newbie2 said:
That’s where the problem lies…Church is against embryo implantation but that seems to be the only way to save these lives.

Goes to show the can-o-worms that technology can sometimes open.
Click to expand...
The sin was in conceiving these children outside of the natural process. Although many children do die within the process of implantation, the sin, in my opinion at least, is creating the situation where the children are placed in this danger. Implanting them is effectively morally neutral.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
If the soul is infused at the moment of conception, then what does that say about identical twins? They start out as a single conception, but somewhere along the line the embrybo divides into two distinct individuals. Does the soul divide at that time? Or did God infuse two souls at the beginnng in anticipation of the split?

I don’t think soul infusion at conception is a necessary consequence of the dogma on the dignity of the human person. Historically the Church has not stated definitively when soul infuse occurs. Some early Church fathers speculated that perhaps it occurs at the time of quickening, that is when the baby first begins to move, but it is only speculation.
Click to expand...
This is my speculation on the matter, not an official teaching, but I’ve concluded that in the case of twins, one child is initially conceived and endowed with a soul. The first child’s body then sheds some extra cells. The soul is endowed in the second child the moment these extra cells become a separate embryo.

One of the twins is then simply a slightly older brother or sister!
 
wjp984 said:
The Church teaches that life begins at conception–I don’t believe the Church has definitively stated the soul is infused at conception.

For example, what about all the frozen embryos?
Click to expand...
This is what started my whole question.

Has the Church stated explicitly that the soul is infused at conception.

So here explicitly is my question:

Where or when has the Church stated explicitly that the human soul is infused at conception?

THANKS!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top