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WanderAimlessly
Guest
Battle of the Human Rights groups:
PF
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nucatholic
Guest
I’m not a fan of the free market. It is a system based on selfishness. The rich exploit the lower classes in order to bring in more profit for themselves. Free market suppoters like to use liberty and free market economics as synonyms. They are not, in fact they are opposed to one another. Workers and laborers are enslaved by poor working conditions and wages too low to sustain a living on. For some reason the “Christian” capitalists seem to think Jesus taught us “Blessed are the business savvy and economically ambitious, for they will exploit the working people of God.”
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
Thank goodness. Here I thought that the war in the Sudan had something to do with the Moslems persecuting minority Christians. Glad to know that it’s just an economic issue.
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shockerfan
Guest
Capitalism has raised the standard of living for more people than any other form of economy. What other system allows those at the bottom with drive and fortitude to better themselves?
If you disagree, please advise which economic system is better. Examples of countries that employ this system would be appreciated.
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MikeWM
Guest
Take a look at Sweden sometime. About as redistributive as it gets in a democracy, and heads pretty much every index of well-being.
Mike
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Franze
Guest
Arba Sicula:
Thank goodness. Here I thought that the war in the Sudan had something to do with the Moslems persecuting minority Christians. Glad to know that it’s just an economic issue.
Well, I am not fan of Amnesty International, but I am not fan of these people either, they´re disgusting. In sudan, there were a religious war.
Thank goodness. Here I thought that the war in the Sudan had something to do with the Moslems persecuting minority Christians. Glad to know that it’s just an economic issue.
Well, I am not fan of Amnesty International, but I am not fan of these people either, they´re disgusting. In sudan, there were a religious war.
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Arba_Sicula
Guest
A mixed free market economy is better. Capitalism can’t match it.
The United States is the prime example, with a free market economy combined with government oversight over particular areas of the economy for the common good.
Now, YOU advise us of a country practicing the system of Capitalism that’s better than our mixed economic system.
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koda
Guest
This is all too true. The CCC also condemns this type of system. Part III section II below is only a small example:
2425 The Church has rejected the totalitarian and atheistic ideologies associated in modem times with “communism” or “socialism.” She has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of “capitalism,” individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor.207 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds; regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for "there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market."208 Reasonable regulation of the marketplace and economic initiatives, in keeping with a just hierarchy of values and a view to the common good, is to be commended.
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MikeWM
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Some people need to re-read Rerum Novarum and the follow-up encyclicals, I think. People are all too ready to quote RN when discussing socialism, but on the subject of capitalism, they are oddly quiet.
Mike
Mike
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vern_humphrey
Guest
That’s kind of like saying, “I’m not a fan of the solar system.”
What alternative do you have? Communism has collapsed.
It would be nice if you could explain how they are opposed.
There is, after all, a strong correlation between freedom and free markets – the freer the markets, the freer the nation.
Adn for some reason, there are “Christians” who think you can create prosperity by waving a magic wand, and who mistake envy for Christian doctrine.
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koda
Guest
Vern, did you bother to read my post with the excerpt on the potential evils of capitalism from the CCC, or to read Rerum Novarum as suggested by MW? Do you have comments on those particular documents?
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shockerfan
Guest
Arba Sicula:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
“Free Market” is a component of a capitalistic society.
What definition do you have for capitalism?
Uh, perhaps we have a difference of definitions. I would call the United States system capitalist. Please see this definition:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
“Free Market” is a component of a capitalistic society.
What definition do you have for capitalism?
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shockerfan
Guest
What economic system would you classify Sweden? I would think capitalist with a high tax rate.
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shockerfan
Guest
I think the key line is "in the practice of “capitalism”, individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor.
It does not condemn capitalism. Our system here in the US is not pure 100% capitalism. Close, but it does have safety nets for those that can’t compete.
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MikeWM
Guest
It is generally classified as (near-)socialist. That is as in the type of socialism that the UK Labour party is supposed to be, and similar to the UK government of 1945-51.
Mike
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rlg94086
Guest
Exactly.
It’s the word “reasonable” we get to argue about.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Where do you see the phrase “potential evils” in paragraph 2425?
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marvin
Guest
With a population of around 9,000,000 and a fairly homogenous culture (87% Luthern).
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shockerfan
Guest
I looked it up in a couple of places.
The CIA fact book says “Aided by peace and neutrality for the whole 20th century, Sweden has achieved an enviable standard of living under a mixed system of high-tech capitalism and extensive welfare benefits.”
cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sw.html
This website says socialist, “Sweden is an example of a country whose economic system is often described as socialist. Most of its major industries, such as coal mining, electric power, gas, telephone, and railroads, are owned by the government.”
socialstudieshelp.com/Economic_Systems.htm
I think the jury is still out in terms of whether or not their economic system can be successful or if it will crumble of under the weight of increasing entitlements. I guess it boils down to what you feel the role of govenment is: The great redistributor of wealth that encourages people to be dependant on the government, or a body that protects the rights of its citizens to be as successful as they want to be. I think something in the middle but weighted to the latter.
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koda
Guest
vern humphrey:
The Church has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of “capitalism,” individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor
.207 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds
regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for “there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market.”
There are several more long paragraphs in the CCC that I will happily cut and paste for you. Now, as you are one to regularly push others for an answer and who dislikes having his questions answered with a question, please treat others with the same respect you want them to show to you.
“Potential evils” is what will happen if the constructs of the Church are not met, which I think you understand. The guidelines provided show what elements of capitalism are not acceptable to the church.
The Church has likewise refused to accept, in the practice of “capitalism,” individualism and the absolute primacy of the law of the marketplace over human labor
.207 Regulating the economy solely by centralized planning perverts the basis of social bonds
regulating it solely by the law of the marketplace fails social justice, for “there are many human needs which cannot be satisfied by the market.”
There are several more long paragraphs in the CCC that I will happily cut and paste for you. Now, as you are one to regularly push others for an answer and who dislikes having his questions answered with a question, please treat others with the same respect you want them to show to you.
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