Human soul possible in other life forms?

[mapleoak]

Hello, I some curious questions which I would like to hear others’ thoughts on. There are other threads where the distinction between humans and animals are being discussed. Basically it is number ONE, that humans have an immortal soul, and number TWO, are gifted with free will. Animals have a mortal soul without free will.
Putting aside all arguments about intellect, ability to reason, appreciation of art and literature, knowledge and understanding, etc. (animals can’t do these things, but unborn babies as well as born babies up to a certain age and people with certain mental disorders also can’t do these things). The one logical thing that separates man from animals would seem to be the two main reasons in the first paragraph.
Given that, and the ever progressing advances in science in technology, is it possible that there could ever be an animal created that would have a human soul? Suppose a way was found to combine genes from animals and humans and produce a half breed so to speak. Would such a creature have a human soul or an animal soul?
Also if a person were to be cloned would it have a human soul? I am not sure how animals are cloned, but from what I heard, all that is needed is a female animal (no males involved). If such a procedure were to be done with humans, being that the soul is normally infused at conception (with cloning, no conception) would a soul be infused where the resulting baby would only have a mother and no father?
I am hoping these would only remain hypothetical scenarios, since they are totally contrary to Church teaching. However, being contrary to Church teaching doesn’t mean that it won’t happen, as there are always people in the world who don’t care about Church teaching.
Maybe we should be praying that science and technology does not advance to such a point that we recreate the Tower of Babel.

In Christ J.M.J.
mapleoak

 

[Tomster]

When we consider the origin and mode of production of the souls of all of Adam’s descendants we come to a question the interest of which is now mainly historical.

Leaving aside such errors as that attributed to the great Origen, who held that all human souls, as well as all angels, were created simultaneously from the beginning; and that promulgaetd by certain early heretics, who taught that they were some kind of emanation from God’s own substance; and that imputed to Tertullian, that the soul is, like the body, the result of generation, errors more than once condemned by the Church - I must say a few words, about an opinion once somewhat widely held in the Church itself, and the subject of controversy between two celebrated Doctors, St. Jerome and St. Augustine. The immediate occasion of the discussion was the denial of original sin by Pelagius and his followers. St. Augustine, as the great champion of the faith, was forced into the investigation of the way in which original sin was handed on from father to son, and found himself faced with a difficulty. St. Jerome, consulted by him, pronounced unequivocally in favor of creationism - that is, the opinion that each human soul is created directly and immediately by God, at the very instant of its infusion into the body, or more accurately, perhaps, that it is created “in” the body. St. Augustine, though willing to be persuaded and, indeed, inclined to the same opinion, was not convinced. Since original sin is in the soul, he argued, if this is directly created by God, how can he be acquitted of, at least, part complicity in the production of sin? Unable to solve the difficulty, he clung to the possibility of the theory that the soul of the child is produced by the parent’s soul, not, however, by its natural power, but by virtue of a special power given it by God. St. Augustine’s great authority gave to this opinion a longer life than its own worth deserved, but it was afterwards abandoned, and on two or three occasions when it has been revived, even in a modified form, the writers responsible have been required to retract. Consequently there is no doubt that that, though not explicitly defined by the Church, the direct creation by God of each soul at the moment when the body is ready to receive it, appertains to the substance of the Catholic faith. But as to when this moment is, and at what stage of pre-natal development the body becomes vivified by the creation of its rational soul, is a question still open to free debate.

Tomster

 

[JimG]

Could a non-human life form have a human soul? Obviously not.

But the question might be asked whether a non-human life form could have a rational soul, i.e. a soul having the attributes of intellect, free will, and immortality by reason of non-materiality.

The answer is yes, if God chose to give such a being a rational soul.

As for clones: Cloned human beings are still human beings, and all human beings have a human soul infused by God.

But the rational soul does not arise through the operation of genetics, whether in humans or non-humans.

 

[mapleoak]

So in effect, We are saying that God could choose to infuse a non-human (or partial human) life form with a rational soul. Would then this creature be deserving of the same respect due to other human beings? By this I mean would we be obligated by the golden rule towards it, forbidden from killing it (suppose it was some type of livestock or food animal), be required to bring it up in the Catholic faith, etc.? Also would it be capable of sin, assuming it could think rationally, and would it have to go to Church and keep the commandments, etc.?

mapleoak

 

[Ghosty]

So in effect, We are saying that God could choose to infuse a non-human (or partial human) life form with a rational soul. Would then this creature be deserving of the same respect due to other human beings? By this I mean would we be obligated by the golden rule towards it, forbidden from killing it (suppose it was some type of livestock or food animal), be required to bring it up in the Catholic faith, etc.? Also would it be capable of sin, assuming it could think rationally, and would it have to go to Church and keep the commandments, etc.?

mapleoak

I think the safe side would be to say we should treat it as we would a human, but really it’s purely hypothetical at this point. Until we encounter extraterrestials it is unlikely that we’d be able to fully work this out

Peace and God bless!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Hello, I some curious questions which I would like to hear others’ thoughts on. There are other threads where the distinction between humans and animals are being discussed. Basically it is number ONE, that humans have an immortal soul, and number TWO, are gifted with free will. Animals have a mortal soul without free will.
Putting aside all arguments about intellect, ability to reason, appreciation of art and literature, knowledge and understanding, etc. (animals can’t do these things, but unborn babies as well as born babies up to a certain age and people with certain mental disorders also can’t do these things). The one logical thing that separates man from animals would seem to be the two main reasons in the first paragraph.
Given that, and the ever progressing advances in science in technology, is it possible that there could ever be an animal created that would have a human soul? Suppose a way was found to combine genes from animals and humans and produce a half breed so to speak. Would such a creature have a human soul or an animal soul?
Also if a person were to be cloned would it have a human soul? I am not sure how animals are cloned, but from what I heard, all that is needed is a female animal (no males involved). If such a procedure were to be done with humans, being that the soul is normally infused at conception (with cloning, no conception) would a soul be infused where the resulting baby would only have a mother and no father?
I am hoping these would only remain hypothetical scenarios, since they are totally contrary to Church teaching. However, being contrary to Church teaching doesn’t mean that it won’t happen, as there are always people in the world who don’t care about Church teaching.
Maybe we should be praying that science and technology does not advance to such a point that we recreate the Tower of Babel.

In Christ J.M.J.
mapleoak

Short answer to question in title: No​

 

[Sixtus]

By this I mean would we be obligated by the golden rule towards it, forbidden from killing it

I do not see why? We kill everything else

 

[Sixtus]

Until we encounter extraterrestials it is unlikely that we’d be able to fully work this out

If we encountered extraterrestials we would try to kill them too! Probably the reason why we don’t see any

 

[Sixtus]

By this I mean would we be obligated by the golden rule towards it, forbidden from killing it

I do not see why? We kill everything else

What happens then when IT becomes sufficiently complex that it too acquires the dimensions and manifestations of a rational soul?

It is only a matter of time before machines become sufficiently complex to mimick human information processing. Will we not unplug them in case we are killing their silicon rational soul

 

[mapleoak]

I do not see why? We kill everything else

What happens then when IT becomes sufficiently complex that it too acquires the dimensions and manifestations of a rational soul?

It is only a matter of time before machines become sufficiently complex to mimick human information processing. Will we not unplug them in case we are killing their silicon rational soul

It would certainly give new meaning to the phrase ‘pull the plug’. One would be obligated to refrain from a potentially gravely disordered action through the commission of murder if one were to ‘kill’ the power to their computer so to speak.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

 

[rossum]

Also if a person were to be cloned would it have a human soul? I am not sure how animals are cloned, but from what I heard, all that is needed is a female animal (no males involved). If such a procedure were to be done with humans, being that the soul is normally infused at conception (with cloning, no conception) would a soul be infused where the resulting baby would only have a mother and no father?

Identical twins are two different human beings both arising from a single act of conception. I would imagine that the theological solution to identical twins would probably apply in the case of clones.

rossum

 

[James_Carson]

Out of curiosity why did saint Francis preach to animal if they were not immortal and wouldn’t be in heaven eventually anyway?

I’m not trying to argue in any way it just seems like an interesting thing. I would like to understand because I heard it argued once that St Francis knew animals had souls that could go to heaven (although it wasnt from a source I would trust).

 

[Sixtus]

why did saint Francis preach to animal

Why did the lions not attack Daniel?

I often wonder about those aspects of the Lord’s life which sacred scripture does not tell us. What was His reaction when He saw a cat or a dog?

I assume that He let the evil spirits go into the herd of pigs which threw themselves over a cliff because the Lord did not consider their lives worth preserving.

Then again, perhaps there was some other more profound meaning that we as yet do not understand and may never understand in this life-time. I would be very interested to hear other’s perception of this incident.

I think it is arrogant of humans to assume that just because they are more intelligent, they are the only ones who matter. I am sure animals [and other specie we do not currently know about] will be present in Heaven.

Praise God,

St John Paul pray for us

 

[James_Carson]

I think it is arrogant of humans to assume that just because they are more intelligent, they are the only ones who matter. I am sure animals [and other specie we do not currently know about] will be present in Heaven.

Praise God,

St John Paul pray for us

I agree, somehow eternity wouldn’t be as fun without our furry, finned, and feathered companions.

 

[Meggie]

A nun once told me, that by merit of God’s grace that He could re-create all the material souls given to particular animals for our pleasure (and His own) in Heaven.

 

[dbacks5439]

Identical twins are two different human beings both arising from a single act of conception. I would imagine that the theological solution to identical twins would probably apply in the case of clones.

rossum

No. Cloning is not natural. Identical twins are there because of God’s will. If God wanted two genetically identical me’s, He would’ve done so. But He didn’t, so I shouldn’t mess with that. Another thing, humans have souls. So if I were to clone myself, technically God is forced into giving “mini-me” a soul. I am not an expert on this, just my opinion.