Human souls before conception

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lbadiola

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Does the human soul already come individuated before conception?
 
What I mean by in God’s mind is that it is one of the divine ideas or platonic forms.
 
Certainly we are all known to God throughout all eternity. God’s knowledge does not change.
 
I know what the Church teaches but I’m considering it from the point of view of extrapolating Aquinas’s philosophy.
 
Let me clarify further: if the soul is the substantial form of the body, are you your substantial form?
 
Sbee0 said:
The Church teaches that the soul is created by God immediately at conception.
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Is this in fact the Church’s teaching? I don’t think so. The soul is created and infused at some very early point, but we do not know if that is at the moment of conception or some point thereafter. Aquinas said 40 days for a male and 80 days for a female (not sure why he made that distinction, and not too happy about it, but if it were reality, we’d have to accept it regardless).

As a practical matter, we have to assume that a soul is present from conception, just as (for instance) a hunter has to assume that someone who can’t be seen may be in his line of fire, unless he can know for sure that there is not (“be sure of your target and what is behind it”).

I am not suggesting that abortion is acceptable if, in fact, the soul is not yet infused. And the Immaculate Conception strongly suggests that the soul is present from the moment of conception.
 
There’s NO Preexistence of the Soul.

That being said, God does know us before we’re born.

Jeremiah 1:5

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
 
So… technically, everyone and everything that has ever existed exists in God’s mind. However, since we are creations within the bounds of temporal reality, there is a point where we do not exist, and then a point where we do. So no, we do not exist, though God’s eternal NOW contains us at all points after we come into existence.
 
This ensoulment debate among Catholics really shouldn’t occur. While it us technically true that the Church has not explicitly stated that ensoulment occurs at conception, if we look at the Church’s definition of a soul, and we acknowledge that the concieved baby is its own person, unique living organism, then either one of two things is true
  1. a human soul is created at the moment of conception, as every living thing requires an animated soul
  2. God creates a "temporary " non human soul and replaces it later on
The latter option seems absurd, does it not?
 
HomeschoolDad said:
40.png
Sbee0:
The Church teaches that the soul is created by God immediately at conception.
Click to expand...
Is this in fact the Church’s teaching? I don’t think so. The soul is created and infused at some very early point, but we do not know if that is at the moment of conception or some point thereafter. Aquinas said 40 days for a male and 80 days for a female (not sure why he made that distinction, and not too happy about it, but if it were reality, we’d have to accept it regardless).

As a practical matter, we have to assume that a soul is present from conception, just as (for instance) a hunter has to assume that someone who can’t be seen may be in his line of fire, unless he can know for sure that there is not (“be sure of your target and what is behind it”).

I am not suggesting that abortion is acceptable if, in fact, the soul is not yet infused. And the Immaculate Conception strongly suggests that the soul is present from the moment of conception.
Click to expand...
Canon Law 366 - this is taught by the Church and I believe at least JPII has spoken on it

The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.
 
In order to understand where I’m getting at I have to provide you some context as to what goaded me to ask this question. What goaded me was the problem of ensoulment and the development of identical twins. Extrapolating from Aquinas’s philosophy, a possible solution to this issue is the following: the soul is the substantial form of the body. Assuming this, in the development of identical twins from one embryo, it’s not that there were already two substantial forms within one body. There’s only one substantial form but in this case there are two instances of it as individuated by matter. It’s analogous to having a huge piece of earth and then splitting it into two so as to have two pieces of earth instead of one.
 
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How is this idea of yours affected by God’s knowledge of us prior to conception? I am confused about what the question of the thread is/means?
 
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