Human souls before conception

[po18guy]

From a 100% Catholic, 100% trustworthy source: The Modern Catholic Dictionary by Servant of God Fr. John Hardon, S.J.†

SOUL. The spiritual immortal part in human beings that animates their body. Though a substance in itself, the soul is naturally ordained toward a body; separated, it is an “incomplete” substance. The soul has no parts, it is therefore simple, but it is not without accidents. The faculties are its proper accidents. Every experience adds to its accidental form. It is individually created for each person by God and infused into the body at the time of human insemination. It is moreover created in respect to the body it will inform, so that the substance of bodily features and of mental characteristics insofar as they depend on organic functions is safeguarded. As a simple and spiritual substance, the soul cannot die. Yet it is not the total human nature, since a human person is composed of body animated by the soul. In philosophy, animals and plants are also said to have souls, which operate as sensitive and vegetative principles of life. Unlike the human spirit, these souls are perishable. The rational soul contains all the powers of the two other souls and is the origin of the sensitive and vegetative functions in the human being.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Is this in fact the Church’s teaching? I don’t think so. The soul is created and infused at some very early point, but we do not know if that is at the moment of conception or some point thereafter. Aquinas said 40 days for a male and 80 days for a female (not sure why he made that distinction, and not too happy about it, but if it were reality, we’d have to accept it regardless).

Yes, but note how this is nuanced. To get back to my previous post, “immediate” does not mean just “right here right now”. It also means “without the mediation of any other agent”.

Nowhere does it say “the immortal soul, the very same soul that makes a man human, is infused into the smallest embryo from the first instant of its conception”. We don’t know. It may be. It probably is. Again, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception strongly hints at it. As a practical matter, we must act as though it is.

But if we believe this, we must also oppose abortifacient contraception as yet another form of abortion. I’m still wondering if we are going to reach some point, in our pro-life efforts, at which we will have to oppose abortifacient contraception in the public arena — and be prepared to address these very issues. Are we prepared for the battle this is going to bring on? Are we prepared to catechize those who think of themselves as pro-life but use abortifacient contraception?

 

[Dovekin]

there may first be a soul (i.e., a life principle) such as would be appropriate to a plant, then a soul such as a tadpole would have, then one such as a goldfish would have, then, at some point, God infuses an immortal human soul.

You do not have an infant soul, then a child soul, then an adult soul, you are one person throughout. The same applies before birth, as the one soul develops vegetative capabilities, then animal and finally human. It is an immortal soul throughout, even though it looks like a vegetative or animal soul at certain times. You are the same human throughout.

Maybe Aquinas held that it was a succession of souls. That would be a significant difference from what I just outlined.

 

[JimG]

Personally, I would just follow the biology. Whenever a new and unique individual of the human species comes into existence, there must be a human soul. That occurs at conception. If a second new and distinct individual of the human species arises, e.g. from twinning, there is another human soul.

 

[John_Martin]

The LORD always knOws himself creatING me in the moment my parents knEw each other joined in the means of conceiving my flesh.
He always eternally knOws CO-OPERATION with my parents when they in a temporal moment knEw.
They knew 67+ years ago, and when the eternal and the temporally contingent both knew TOGETHER (co-operation) then suddenly there was my soul and my single cell body where there was no soul and no single cell body.

My LORD knows nothing in creation “by Himself”, but knows all in Co-Operation with temporal creatures, and when known together, they ARE. There is no “eternal Me” in the mind of God. Even now, I in my temporal knowing am Co-Operating with God such that my temporal reality is his eternal knowing of me knowing with him.

John Martin

 

[fisherman_carl]

No. I wasn’t asking if souls existed before conception. What I was trying to ask is that before being united with matter, is the soul already individuated? I ask because Aquinas held that matter is the principle of individuation

I would say yes, each soul is unique. Consider the Angels. They have no matter and are pure Form without matter, being pure Spirit. Yet, they are each individual species according to Aquinas. What differentiates immaterial species like Angels from God who is also immaterial was something Aquinas pondered. God was absolutely Simple, not being composed of things. Since God is being itself. Angels are a composite. They have existence given to them. The bottom line is could souls be unique. The answer is yes, if God wanted to make them unique. Just like he makes each angel it’s own species.

Humans, are all the same species because of procreation. But each soul could still be unique because they are directly created by God and infused to the body. The immaterial mind for instance already itself exists apart from the body and thus is not individuated by the body.