Human will

[Bubba_Switzler]

I was watching a program on the Dark Ages on the History Channel last night and they briefly covered Saint Benedict and his monastic rules. Most of the discussion was pretty straightforward but they described the purpose of Benedict’s rules as the elimination human will because it is a source of sin.

Now I have come across this before. It’s tempting to dismiss it as anti-Catholic or anti-clerical hyperbole but I have noticed an element of this myself in Catholicism. “Thy will be done” becomes “my will be none”. This is reflected in the ascetic lifestyle which rejects the will for comfort.

And, yet, I know that can’t be right. One of the Catholic criticisms of eastern religions is their denial of, or aspiration for, the elimination of human individuality. That’s not exactly synonymous with human will but close.

Naturally this also touches on the idea of rebellion against God’s will but it is one thing to reject the will of God, when clearly known, another thing entirely to presume that our will is always pitted against His.

 

[Della]

I was watching a program on the Dark Ages on the History Channel last night and they briefly covered Saint Benedict and his monastic rules. Most of the discussion was pretty straightforward but they described the purpose of Benedict’s rules as the elimination human will because it is a source of sin.

No doubt they misunderstood–either through ignorance or willfully. Most likely it is ignorance, but it may be willful ignorance, but that only God can know.

Now I have come across this before. It’s tempting to dismiss it as anti-Catholic or anti-clerical hyperbole but I have noticed an element of this myself in Catholicism. “Thy will be done” becomes “my will be none”. This is reflected in the ascetic lifestyle which rejects the will for comfort.

No, it’s not “my will be none” but rather “my will conformed to Thy will.” I don’t understand your last sentence. How can rejecting one’s own will mean making oneself comfortable. Wouldn’t the misperception be just the opposite–that it would make one uncomfortable?

And, yet, I know that can’t be right. One of the Catholic criticisms of eastern religions is their denial of, or aspiration for, the elimination of human individuality. That’s not exactly synonymous with human will but close.

So, this must be wrong since Catholicism rejects the notion that we must annihilate the individual. Rather Catholic teaching is that the individual must conform his will to the divine will. And that, in and of itself, is an act of our will.

Naturally this also touches on the idea of rebellion against God’s will but it is one thing to reject the will of God, when clearly known, another thing entirely to presume that our will is always pitted against His.

Our natural inclination is to sin–to one degree or another, but this is not the same thing as always setting our will against God’s will. Very often we sin through ignorance or neglect rather than deliberate acts of the will.

 

[Aloysium]

our free will is to choose who will be our master; will it be God or some idol: love or lust, greed, pride, etc
in choosing God’s way we gain in freedom; our choices grow as we express our individual talents
sin constrains us; it limits our freedom

 

[Auntie_A]

Your question is good and important because it is the question that anyone who loves God must ask: “Am I truly doing God’s will or am I playing God?” This where prayer and discernment come in. Many people talk about prayer but the discernment part is often missing.

Extreme example: God wants me to blow up this building. If I know God’s rules, I should be able to discern that this is not God speaking (I won’t go into acts of war, etc) God has given us His Son. God has given us commandments, We look to Jesus for teaching and exemplary behavior; we look to the Commandments for rules and guidelines. We learn the fruits of the Holy Spirit and we can discern if the idea is a product of God or not. We decide that blowing up a building is not in God’s will so we decide to not listen to that voice.

That is fairly easy discernment, barring extenuating circumstances as I mentioned earlier. The trickier stuff is when the act appears good but does not have a good end. But the discernment dialogue helps find the greater truth in determining right from wrong, good from bad much better than just stating “It’s God’s will” when it may be your own will or some other entity.

 

[Roscoe_Turner]

I was watching a program on the Dark Ages on the History Channel last night and they briefly covered Saint Benedict and his monastic rules. Most of the discussion was pretty straightforward but they described the purpose of Benedict’s rules as the elimination human will because it is a source of sin.

Now I have come across this before. It’s tempting to dismiss it as anti-Catholic or anti-clerical hyperbole but I have noticed an element of this myself in Catholicism. “Thy will be done” becomes “my will be none”. This is reflected in the ascetic lifestyle which rejects the will for comfort.

And, yet, I know that can’t be right. One of the Catholic criticisms of eastern religions is their denial of, or aspiration for, the elimination of human individuality. That’s not exactly synonymous with human will but close.

Naturally this also touches on the idea of rebellion against God’s will but it is one thing to reject the will of God, when clearly known, another thing entirely to presume that our will is always pitted against His.

It’s a bit like the notion that Catholics are to follow their consciences in all matters, provided that they are properly catechised. How do you know if you are properly catechised? If your conscience follows Church teaching.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I stumbled across the phrase “renunciation of one’s own will” which I suspect is the source of the view experessed in the OP.

Googling the phrase it seems to be intimately tied to the Catholic concept of obedience to the Church on matters of theology and to the virtue of humility.

The most general expression of the concept that I have found in The Adornment of the Spiritual Marriage:

From this obedience there springs the renunciation of one’s own will and one’s own opinion, for none can submit his own will in all things to the will of another, save the obedient man: though one may obey in outward things and yet remain self-willed.

The forsaking of one’s own will causes a man to live without preference for either this or that, in doing or leaving undone, in those things which are strange and special in the saints, in their precepts and in their practice; but it makes him to live always according to the glory and the commandments of God, and the will of his prelates, and in peace with all men in his neighbourhood, so far as true prudence permits.

By renouncing self-will in doing, in leaving undone, and in suffering, the material and occasion of pride are wholly cast out, and humility is made perfect in the highest degree. And God becomes the Lord of the man’s whole will; and the man’s will is so united with the will of God that he can neither will nor desire in any other way. This man has put off the old man, and has put on the new man, who is renewed and made according to the dearest will of God. Of all such Christ says: Blessed are the poor in spiritthat is to say, those who have renounced self-will—for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.

I have also found some attributing the phrase “renunciation of one’s own will” to St. Francis.

 

[Della]

By renunciating one’s own will, though, one has to make an act of the will. So, doing this does not take away our free will, rather it is submitting it in obedience to sound authority.

 

[fhansen]

God’s purpose, of placing His laws on our hearts and writing them in our minds per the New Covenant promises in Jer 31, is to draw us into willing alignment with His will, without coercion. He wants us to choose Him, rather than spurn Him as Adam did. To the extent we freely come into agreement with Him, with the help of His grace, our justice is greater.

 

[Genesis315]

Eliminating human will because to will is to sin sounds like there heresy of Quietism or certain Janenist or Calvinist propositions, all of which have been definitively condemned by the Church.

The will is sacrificed because it is a good (like Abel, we sacrifice good things to God, not bad things). In his work on the Seven Words from the Cross, St. Robert Bellarmine cites St. Gregory, a Benedictine, on this point:

“The man who performs no action of his own free will, but does everything through obedience to his Superior, offers to God in each action a sacrifice most pleasing to Him, because as Samuel says: ‘Obedience is better than sacrifices.’ St. Gregory gives a reason for this. ‘In offering victims,’ he says, 'we sacrifice the flesh of another; by obedience our own will is sacrificed.”"

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Eliminating human will because to will is to sin sounds like there heresy of Quietism or certain Janenist or Calvinist propositions, all of which have been definitively condemned by the Church.

Aha! Thank you.

newadvent.org/cathen/12608c.htm

The will is sacrificed because it is a good (like Abel, we sacrifice good things to God, not bad things). In his work on the Seven Words from the Cross, St. Robert Bellarmine cites St. Gregory, a Benedictine, on this point:

“The man who performs no action of his own free will, but does everything through obedience to his Superior, offers to God in each action a sacrifice most pleasing to Him, because as Samuel says: ‘Obedience is better than sacrifices.’ St. Gregory gives a reason for this. ‘In offering victims,’ he says, 'we sacrifice the flesh of another; by obedience our own will is sacrificed.”"

 

[thistle]

I was watching a program on the Dark Ages on the History Channel last night and they briefly covered Saint Benedict and his monastic rules. Most of the discussion was pretty straightforward but they described the purpose of Benedict’s rules as the elimination human will because it is a source of sin.

Now I have come across this before. It’s tempting to dismiss it as anti-Catholic or anti-clerical hyperbole but I have noticed an element of this myself in Catholicism. “Thy will be done” becomes “my will be none”. This is reflected in the ascetic lifestyle which rejects the will for comfort.

And, yet, I know that can’t be right. One of the Catholic criticisms of eastern religions is their denial of, or aspiration for, the elimination of human individuality. That’s not exactly synonymous with human will but close.

Naturally this also touches on the idea of rebellion against God’s will but it is one thing to reject the will of God, when clearly known, another thing entirely to presume that our will is always pitted against His.

I thought everyone was aware that History Channel is anti-Christian in general and anti-Catholic in particular. I stopped watching any programs relating to Christianity as they are rubbish.