Humanae Vitae and 2018

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NoelFitz said:
But in the future the Church may emphasize justice, faith, love of neighbor and God rather than the sexual behavior of its members. This focus may have benefits for the Church overall.
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See, if that worked, then Mainline Protestants in North America and Europe would have thriving parishes but they’re all in terminal decline. When you water one teaching you weaken the foundation.

As a Protestant, I’m glad the Catholic Church stood its ground on contraception and abortion. I don’t know how many know this but many Evangelicals in the US were actually pro-abortion. Imagine that. A miracle in the 1970s caused the majority to go back to Christian teachings on the horrors of abortion. Now more non-practising Evangelicals are more pro-life than non-practising Catholics in America. I focused on non-practising because it shows regular church-going practising Christians can exert influence.
Right now, American Evangelicals are quite close to making a turnaround -and it’s among the younger generation that are looking to pre-1930. It’s quite clear Catholics should not be discouraged in remaining firm.
 
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NoelFitz said:
This thread has not elicited a strong response, and it seems, approaching the 50th anniversary of Humanae Vitae, that contraception is not a major issue in the Church. Like divorce, it seems that many Catholics do not see contraception as a moral problem.
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I would not jump to the conclusion that “contraception is not a major issue in the Church,” though it may be true that “many Catholics do not see contraception as a moral problem.”

Here at CAF, one might have expected a livelier discussion. The near-silence may simply reflect that most CAF members don’t know what can be done that would make a positive difference. I have been following the discussion and hoping someone would step up with some fresh ideas, but I guess we are not quite ready for that.
NoelFitz said:
The Church has been assured that God will be with it ‘and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it’…
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Yes. To us, the response seems disappointing, but as you suggest there, in God’s larger plan we may be on the right track.

This I pray: May the Holy Spirit touch the hearts of all Catholics and guide them step by step toward faith, truth, holiness, and love.
 
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ATravellor,
Thanks for post.
Is it significant that Protestants seem to contribute here more deeply than
Catholics?
This thread has nothing to do with abortion, it is about contraption.
 
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RandomAlias,
I also would have expected a livelier response. Your excuse for the lack of
interest is disappointing, as it seems to imply Catholics have lost
interest, thinking nothing positive can be done.
 
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Maybe the lack of interest is caused more by the fact that this thread is not about abn actual and personal issue with a subject of Humanae Vitae. The questions regarding contraception are so often here that maybe many members don´t see the need to discuss this in general, too.
 
Contraception is simply not an issue today - never discussed, never preached about, an elephant in the room which clergy and congregations are happy to ignore.

You only have to look around at church to see how very few large, poorly-dressed, families there are of the sort I remember as a child…

My grandmother had ten children - and would probably have had more had my grandfather not died: her best friend was the mother of 14…

There are few educated young women today who would contemplate or could afford such a brood - or living in the monthly fear that they were expecting another baby they neither wanted nor had the means to support adequately. And it is not a fate I would wish on my granddaughters…

Babies are indeed a blessing but you can have too much even of a very good thing indeed. And thoughtlessly conceiving a baby after a careless and tipsy what-the-heck Saturday night bonk is irresponsible and potentially damaging to the health of both mother and baby.

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle, and I don’t believe there is any going back to the good old days when women could expect to churn out a baby every other year until menopause.

NFP is touted as getting more reliable - although when asked to review a new DVD issued by the English bishops several years ago it was all hazy families in fields of flowers, and one couple featured had a toddler, a baby and another on the way…which didn’t seem awfully convincing.

But if NFP is developed to the point where a couple using it can be almost certain they won’t conceive then I find it hard to see how it differs from “artificial” contraception.

The whole issue is one of fudge and mudge and I think after the 50th anniversary very little will ever be heard of it again…
 
I think that many Catholics might use contraception because that are ignorant of church teaching.

Or they might understand what the Church teaching is in a vague way, but feel the natural methods of child spacing are not effective.

I think that Catholics fall into different categories.

Catholics that use contraception because they have decided the church is wrong.

Catholics that think the church is correct on the issue, but use contraception because of fear of using natural methods.

Carholics who use NFP.

And Catholics who think even NFP is wrong.

I guess there could be other categories, or a combination of the above reasons.

I remember a priest once saying that it must be so hard to be married.
 
The blessed mother said the number one reason people will go to hell is for sins of the flesh. Also there is a direct link between abortion and contraception. Abortion happens mainly because contraception fails. Therefore contraception promotes abortion, and as long as there is contraception there will be abortion.
 
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But if you are more likely to get pregnant while not using contraception surely more pregnancies will lead to more abortions? If you aren’t pregnant you can’t have an abortion…
 
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A lot of contraceptive are abortificient, so people are having abortions and don’t even know it. Nfp is actually more efficient the. Contraceptives too when used correctly. It is hard to abstain but I just remember heaven isn’t easy to get into. That’s where a lot of Protestants make a mistake.
 
NoelFitz said:
This thread has nothing to do with abortion, it is about contraption.
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It’s about contraception but it seems some in the Catholic Church feel defeated. Right now, a majority of Catholics are ignoring Humanae Vitae and some feel it shouldn’t be mentioned and it should be hidden. I’m arguing that that approach is wrong. I’ve skimmed it and it’s a though-provoking document.

I brought in abortion to show that the feelings of being defeated should be ignored. The abortion issue in the US shows even though the majority of Evangelicals were pro-abortion pre-1970s, today, that majority got flipped so now the majority of Evangelicals are pro-life and are standing next to Catholics on defending the unborn. If such a sudden change took place in US evangelicalism, then it’s very possible that the majority of Catholics in the future will value Humane Vitae. Even right now, a small but growing number of young Evangelicals are questioning artificial contraception. If that’s happening in parts of American Evangelicalism, why wouldn’t it happen in Catholicism, which has a head start by remaining firm and consistent?
 
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NoelFitz said:
I am concerned about the fall off in Catholic practice in Ireland, and also elsewhere in the west, especially among young people.

Is one of the principal reasons for this the issue of contraception?
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I think the simplest and more likely explanation is that there are no important social, political or financial sanctions that would discourage people, especially young people, from not practicing.

If you no longer have to be a regular Mass goer to be considered a ‘good person’ or a reliable worker, then why bother going if you don’t really believe?

Also, how much of traditional Irish Catholicism had more to do with being anti-English instead of being about The Church? With an integration of the Irish and English economies, along with a tendency to regard The Troubles as a thing of the past, then perhaps the factor of Catholicism as Irish Nationalism is no longer compelling.

And, finally, perhaps it might be the case that some past ‘clerical excesses’ have led the latest generation of the populace to view the clergy and The Church in a less than admiring light - and because of this, they are less interested in spending their time and resources supporting them.

So, no, I don’t think contraception is the principal reason for the falloff in Irish Catholicism - I think there are much larger issues in play.

This isn’t a strictly Irish problem. I suspect that some of these issues show up in different ways in other Western nations.
 
TechieGuy,

thank you so much for your insightful reply from Australia.

I do not fully disagree with you and you raise broader issues than I
focused on.

Catholics perhaps do not fear hell the way they did, but one would hope
that the love of God and neighbour would encourage moral behaviour.

I agree with you about Irish and British economies being linked, as now our
main fear is that with Brexit our link to Britain will be weakened.

In the future I may start a thread about the number of Catholics in Ireland
and elsewhere who are living together without marriage or are entering into
non-Church marriages.

Incidentally there was a prominent story on our TV news recently about a
gay Australian politician proposing marriage in parliament, perhaps telling
us more about Ireland than Australia.
 
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Thanks, but I’m Texan, not Australian. Although if I couldn’t have been a Texan, being an Australian would have been my second or third choice.
 
OOps, TechieGuy, sorry.
I read from you ‘I am not sure of the set up in America. In Australia there is no difference with regards to taxation whether married or not’ and presumed you were Australian.
 
I don’t see that quote, pretty sure it wasn’t mine, though.
 
I think most Catholics who use contraception can understand the Church when it comes to abortion but when it comes to contraception that isn’t an abortifacient they just don’t get it. I certainly don’t.

It falls into the same category as sexual acts not aimed toward procreation.

Perhaps better education would help, I don’t know.
 
I’m feeling the same as you. My husband and I had our seventh baby less than a year ago and the labor was pretty bad. The doctor advised me not to get pregnant again due to my age and the fact that things would only get worse from here on out. The trouble is, even with NFP, we’ve had 3 unplanned pregnancies. NFP just doesn’t work for us. I am at my max and always overwhelmed by the constant noise and chaos. Not to mention exhausted. We are also maxed financially and can’t afford any more kids.

Don’t get me wrong I absolutely adore all of my precious gifts but I know that I have reached my limit. I have become a worse mother with subsequent children as I just don’t have enough time or energy for them all. The house is always a disaster and I find myself yelling more than I would like and my husband is hardly home as he’s trying to work constantly to pay for all the necessities.

I just wish there were some exceptions made for those of us that have done our part. It’s not like I’m 22 and only want one child. I have been open to life and would never have an abortion, but please why can’t we use a barrier method or get a vasectomy now that we’ve reached our limit.

I won’t even let my husband touch me anymore for fear of getting pregnant again and although I can live without being intimate I know that it’s very hard on him, and hard on our marriage, but I don’t know what else to do. Every time I search for answers I get the same ones, absolutely no exceptions.

Sorry for my rant, I am usually a very joyful person. I’m just feeling overwhelmed and like a failure in my role as a wife and mother.

This is the only part of the church doctrine that I really am having trouble obeying. I am obeying but I can’t say that I’m obeying joyfully. Especially since my sister and her husband have been contracepting for years and she brags about how wonderful their intimacy is and I feel like I’m doing a lousy job pleasing my own husband in comparison.
 
I feel bad “liking” your post; I don’t like your situation but I appreciate you sharing your voice.
 
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