Humility vs Low Self Image

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Della said:
You are free to believe whatever you wish, but that doesn’t make it reality. 🙂 But no, we would not “fizzle into nothingness” at God’s presence. Jesus would have told us so if that were true. We are not mere bumps in the tapioca of life. God created beings other than himself so that he could share his love with others capable of returning it. Mere illusions cannot return love nor make real decisions to love. There is a name for the heresy you are expounding. Someone else who has studied heresies can no doubt tell you what it is and who first proposed it, but it wasn’t you, dear friend.
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All that exists within me is awareness, consciousness, thoughts and emotions. None of these constitutes the self. Again, what most people consider to be the self is nothing more than the above attributes being projected inwardly. The Imitation of Christ constantly warns of the dangers of self, and urges us to mortify it.
 
Robert_Sock said:
All that exists within me is awareness, consciousness, thoughts and emotions. None of these constitutes the self. Again, what most people consider to be the self is nothing more than the above attributes being projected inwardly. The Imitation of Christ constantly warns of the dangers of self, and urges us to mortify it.
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He means self-interest/selfishness. I have read the Imitation. In no way does he deny the reality of the self, but rather that the self should not be overcome with selfishness and sin. Ask a good theologian about this instead of assuming to know what he meant, or any other spiritual writer meant, especially when your assumptions lead you into error.
 
Della said:
He means self-interest/selfishness. I have read the Imitation. In no way does he deny the reality of the self, but rather that the self should not be overcome with selfishness and sin. Ask a good theologian about this instead of assuming to know what he meant, or any other spiritual writer meant, especially when your assumptions lead you into error.
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If Kempis only meant self-interest and selfishness, why would he not say so, directly?
 
Robert_Sock said:
If Kempis only meant self-interest and selfishness, why would he not say so, directly?
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Because he was writing using the expressions of his time, as was St. Paul. In no way were either negating the reality of the self. We are integrated beings of body, mind and soul. We will live for eternity after the resurrection from the dead of which Christ is the “firstfruits”, the first one to be raised for all eternity, with us to follow him when our bodies are also resurrected. There is absolutely no mention anywhere in Scripture or the Sacred Tradition (from which it rose) in which we are told that we will “fizzle” in God’s presence into him and no longer be ourselves. Absolutely nothing like that at all.
 
Della said:
Because he was writing using the expressions of his time, as was St. Paul. In no way were either negating the reality of the self. We are integrated beings of body, mind and soul. We will live for eternity after the resurrection from the dead of which Christ is the “firstfruits”, the first one to be raised for all eternity, with us to follow him when our bodies are also resurrected. There is absolutely no mention anywhere in Scripture or the Sacred Tradition (from which it rose) in which we are told that we will “fizzle” in God’s presence into him and no longer be ourselves. Absolutely nothing like that at all.
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It’s actually spelled out in much of Judaism. I realize that we should stick with Church teachings, but the Church really does concern itself with this issue, and so we must next look to Judaism, just to see what they believe. They have been at it much longer than us, and they are God’s Chosen People.
 
Robert_Sock said:
It’s actually spelled out in much of Judaism. I realize that we should stick with Church teachings, but the Church really does concern itself with this issue, and so we must next look to Judaism, just to see what they believe. They have been at it much longer than us, and they are God’s Chosen People.
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Again no. The teaching that there is eternal life was not fully developed in the OT, but it is there, just the same. When Jesus taught about eternal life none of his hearers asked what he was talking about. They knew the concept.

Oftentimes the writers of the OT would take the strictly natural view point–that we simply die to show the meaninglessness of living a worldly life, saying, “Well, if it all ends no matter if you are rich or poor, good or bad, then what is the point of amassing wealth and gaining mens’ praise?” It was a tool to teach the foolishness of omitting God and eternity from our life when we have an eternal soul at stake.

You need to read some good Bible commentaries instead of, again, assuming you understand the writers’ meaning.
 
Della said:
Again no. The teaching that there is eternal life was not fully developed in the OT, but it is there, just the same. When Jesus taught about eternal life none of his hearers asked what he was talking about. They knew the concept.

Oftentimes the writers of the OT would take the strictly natural view point–that we simply die to show the meaninglessness of living a worldly life, saying, “Well, if it all ends no matter if you are rich or poor, good or bad, then what is the point of amassing wealth and gaining mens’ praise?” It was a tool to teach the foolishness of omitting God and eternity from our life when we have an eternal soul at stake.

You need to read some good Bible commentaries instead of, again, assuming you understand the writers’ meaning.
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Just to be clear, I was not talking about the OT, but what many modern-day Jews (e.g., Chabad) believe in respect to this matter. I would encourage you (and everybody else) to open your ears here, and hear what our Jewish brothers and sisters have to say.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Just to be clear, I was not talking about the OT, but what many modern-day Jews (e.g., Chabad) believe in respect to this matter. I would encourage you (and everybody else) to open your ears here, and hear what our Jewish brothers and sisters have to say.
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I have heard it. I will not guess at their motives for denying what is in their own sacred texts. I only know that they are wrong about these things. How do I know? Because Christ is raised from the dead–body and soul. As St. Paul wrote, “If Christ be not raised from the dead our faith is in vain.” It is only natural for people who deny Christ’s resurrectoin to deny the essence of Christian teachings, even if those teachings have their roots deep in the writings of their own prophets.
 
Della said:
I have heard it. I will not guess at their motives for denying what is in their own sacred texts. I only know that they are wrong about these things. How do I know? Because Christ is raised from the dead–body and soul. As St. Paul wrote, “If Christ be not raised from the dead our faith is in vain.” It is only natural for people who deny Christ’s resurrectoin to deny the essence of Christian teachings, even if those teachings have their roots deep in the writings of their own prophets.
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OK, we disagree a little, but everything is cool!
 
Robert_Sock said:
God did not create the psychological concept of the “self.”
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So who did? Why would we believe we are “selves” if God didn’t create us to be individuals not illusions that will “fizzle” in his presence? You have tried to prove your point and have failed. Enough is enough.
 
Della said:
So who did? Why would we believe we are “selves” if God didn’t create us to be individuals not illusions that will “fizzle” in his presence? You have tried to prove your point and have failed. Enough is enough.
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I have never tried to prove anything. I merely question the psychological notion of the self, and I borrowed from Judaism to state that we are nullified before God.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I have never tried to prove anything. I merely question the psychological notion of the self, and I borrowed from Judaism to state that we are nullified before God.
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Ah, but you did try to prove it. It just won’t fly so let it stay grounded. Good-bye.
 
RCIAGraduate said:
One is good for the soul,the other one may be harmful to mental health. How does one distinguish between them?
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I heard once in a film - “Humility is what keeps you from being humiliated.”

“Low Self Image” is whatever some psychologist thinks it is.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I have never tried to prove anything. I merely question the psychological notion of the self, and I borrowed from Judaism to state that we are nullified before God.
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I notice in many of your threads you are leaning towards Judaism for beliefs.
 
thistle said:
I notice in many of your threads you are leaning towards Judaism for beliefs.
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I have great respect for Judaism and I have spent much time studying it. When it comes to religious issues, I read Judaism in the hope of gaining food for thought. They are God’s Chosen People, and they have had a much longer relationship with God. I think it’s wise to remain open minded while exploring the gray areas in Catholic teachings.
 
Lucy107 said:
I heard once in a film - “Humility is what keeps you from being humiliated.”

“Low Self Image” is whatever some psychologist thinks it is.
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If that’s humility then call me the reckless, arrogant hothead any day. I’ll let the fruits of my ‘pride’ speak for me. 👍
 
Robert_Sock said:
I have great respect for Judaism and I have spent much time studying it. When it comes to religious issues, I read Judaism in the hope of gaining food for thought. They are God’s Chosen People, and they have had a much longer relationship with God. I think it’s wise to remain open minded while exploring the gray areas in Catholic teachings.
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Only the Catholic Church has the FULLNESS of Truth. There are no gray areas in Church teachings.
 
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