Humility vs. obedience?

[fnr]

When it comes to how we live our lives, which is more important: humility or obedience?

By humility, one acknowledges one’s own limitations and lays down pride, but in the extreme, you can also become a doormat and can hold onto nothing.

By obedience, particularly to teachings of the Church, one conforms to Catholic moral and social precepts, but in the extreme, you can uncritically accept whatever authority figures say.

I could think of situations where the two are at odds. For instance, in confronting a parish priest about comments you viewed as inappropriate in a homily, obedience might mean that you accept the priest’s teaching authority too easily, while humility might mean that you approach the priest about his comments, but acknowledge that you may have misinterpreted what he said.

On the contrary, when someone screams in your face about how wrong your beliefs are, humility might mean that you hold your tongue, but obedience might mean that you do your best to defend your faith.

Any thoughts on the difference?

 

[Didi]

In trying to decide whether or not it’s best to say something to someone, or to discern if the timing is right, I always think of Jesus as He stood before Herod.

Herod wanted Jesus to perform a miracle; to put on a “magic show.” Jesus does not respond to Herod at all. He doesn’t defend Himself, He doesn’t say a word.

I’ve heard scholars reflect on this scenario. Many say it is because Jesus knew that His actions would not convert Herod’s heart; Herod was not in any way ready to hear Jesus’ words of everlasting life. So Jesus just remained silent.

I think about that in confronting others. Will my words be taken in a spirit of charity and love, or twisted around? Is this person open to hearing what I have to say, or will my words fall on deaf ears?

Then I pray and ask the Lord that if I am to say something, He will bring the opportunity to me, or give me that nudge that I need, along with the right words to say. And if I’m not to say anything at this time, that God will zip my lips!

 

[davidv]

When it comes to how we live our lives, which is more important: humility or obedience?

By humility, one acknowledges one’s own limitations and lays down pride, but in the extreme, you can also become a doormat and can hold onto nothing.

By obedience, particularly to teachings of the Church, one conforms to Catholic moral and social precepts, but in the extreme, you can uncritically accept whatever authority figures say.

I could think of situations where the two are at odds. For instance, in confronting a parish priest about comments you viewed as inappropriate in a homily, obedience might mean that you accept the priest’s teaching authority too easily, while humility might mean that you approach the priest about his comments, but acknowledge that you may have misinterpreted what he said.

On the contrary, when someone screams in your face about how wrong your beliefs are, humility might mean that you hold your tongue, but obedience might mean that you do your best to defend your faith.

Any thoughts on the difference?

For one. I think you definitions are to extreme. True humility never requires of us to be a “doormat”. And, true obedience does not require following an immoral command.
As such, that which appears contrary may not be.

 

[iamscifimike]

I agree with David. They are not such contrary points. I do feel that humility comes from obedience. I think obedience is what its all about. Look through Bible history. Adam and Eve disobedient. Abraham : obedient Mary : obedient, even Jesus took on a role of obedience. Also look at David (not the previous poster) and the Nation of Israel waxing and waning in their obedience.

 

[fnr]

But here’s another question:

When does humility challenge one’s obedience?

Say you don’t believe in evolution, because you feel that it undermines your belief that God created the world. In some circles of creationists, they will not allow their children to be exposed to biology books that teach evolution as the leading candidate in explaining biological observations. (note: my goal here isn’t to spark a debate on that topic; I recently saw the movie Jesus Camp which addresses that issue).

If you’re unwilling to let your children read about evolution, to what extent does that reflect a lack of humility in the name of obedience? It seems to me to be prideful to hold the contention that one’s own world view, to which one is fully obedient, is immune to factual analysis.

 

[Pug]

I don’t think of these two as being in opposition. I think of them as being similar or supportive of each other. It is an exercise in humility to obey.

Philippians 2:8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

1 Peter 5:5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE.

Perhaps in your last example you are laying obedience to your conscience against humility? I don’t think it is a proper exercise in humility to disobey what your conscience tells you. By conscience, I understand that to be what you know to be right. It is not humble to refuse to obey what you know to be right. That sounds more like pride to me.

You may be getting at something else, though, by the parent’s behavior. What kind of world view are you considering here, one that they know to be true? It can be a form of pride to say you have all the facts and understand a topic completely when you don’t. A humble person would be truthful and admit they don’t know the topic completely.

 

[fnr]

Thank you for those quotations, Pug, they’re quite helpful.

I guess obedience, as in submitting one’s own will to that of God’s, is can be a truly humble thing. An act of consecration of one’s heart, for instance, to the Sacred Heart of Jesus or the Immaculate Heart of Mary constitutes a supreme act of obedience and humility at once.

On the other hand, rote obedience can also be a disguise for pride, I suppose. As you address here:

You may be getting at something else, though, by the parent’s behavior. What kind of world view are you considering here, one that they know to be true? It can be a form of pride to say you have all the facts and understand a topic completely when you don’t. A humble person would be truthful and admit they don’t know the topic completely.

I guess that’s what I’m really getting at. At what point should we be willing to say that despite all we know, we have limits beyond which we can’t prove something?

 

[Feedmysheep]

I read a quote somewhere that said, “The devil can imitate humility, but not obedience”. So I guess I’ll pick obedience.