Hunger for Knowledge (was: Hunger?)

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Ok I have to ask…where in the world did you shop when you lived out here…the Fairway:eek: ?
I dont know what stores you guys are hitting but the local ShoprRite and Whole Foods is not cheap…the produce is expensive and the meats and fish are too…so what did you guys eat and where did you guys shop?
We didn’t have a ShopRite near us and I never even heard of Whole Foods until I came to Texas. My favorite store for meat, canned goods and non-food items was Laneco. We had several produce stands along Route 22 for fruits and vegetables as well as juice. I actually had my dairy home delivered when I lived in NJ. That not an option here because of the heat. Milk, yogurt etc. are more expensive in Krogers or Randalls here than they were to get them at my front door in NJ.

As for what we eat, I use my slow cooker a lot. Cheap cuts of meat go a long way. My kids and I love salads too and we eat more chicken than beef. We try to eat vegetarian on Fridays since none of us are big on seafood. Mind you, we are not living on $35 per person now. I am not on that kind of a budget and we eat out a lot more than we should. But I could if I needed to.
 
I can afford anything I want, and I have a exceptionally good eating plan. Most of what I eat is fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, yogurt, and fish. No junk, cookies, candy, red meat, fast food, potato chips, booze, soda, It costs me about $40 per week. At restaurants I have large salads while the rest of the table shoves high calorie, low nutrition material in their gullets.

I’m not trying to save money because I have all the money I need. I find that’s what it costs for me to maintain the best diet I can. I suggest the cost of eating is a function of how much junk one puts in their body. The more junk one eats, the more it costs.

A bag of chips costs $3. That same $3 will buy enough potatos to eat them everyday for a week, and the potatos are far more healthy than the chips.

What nutritional good is coke? Water is far healthier. Candy, ice cream, pastries? These are recreational foods. So, people spend their money on mouth recreation, whine that they can’t lose weight, and then complain they can’t eat well. Nonsense.
 
I think $35 a person not a family is good for a week.

For where I live this is what I can buy for $35 on a sale ad.
OatMeal 3.00
Portugese sausage .99 ea 3= 3.00
Gallon of Milk 5.00
18 pack of eggs 3.50
Rice 5 lb bag 2.75
apples 3 lbs .79 per lb = 2.37
crackers 5.00
loaf of bread 1.65
cold cuts 3.50
five lbs of chickhen on sale 3.50

Add all this up and it is $33.27. There is no way anyone can tell me they cannot survive on 35 dollars a week 3 meals a day. I live in Hawaii where our prices are maybe one of the worst in the nation. Just look at the milk price 5 dollars a gallon and that is on sale. Drink water, eat an apple for a snack or crackers. Eat a sandwich for lunch. eat enouch not alot and 35 dollars can go a long way.

If a family is only receiving 35 dollars a week on food stamps, to bad they are not in Hawaii. They would probably receive $35 a day.
 
it is not the actual amount you have to spend on food that makes the difference, it is how well you are able to shop, store and prepare the food.

did extensive research on this both through personal experience, with headstart, Catholic Charities and other areas. nutshell:
poor people in general get less nutrition for the same amount of money for many reasons
they are limited to stores in poorer parts of town, which have higher prices, and limited selection due to security and other considerations. these are usually the older, less well-maintained and stocked stores in a chain, or independents and convenience stores who have higher prices.

they are limited by transportation constraints, bus routes etc. as to what they can buy and how much they can carry home, so they cannot take advantage of sales.

also many live where they don’t have good refrig, freezer or even storage that is vermin free, so they have to be careful what they buy. or don’t have choices of cooking methods. I lived with a hot plate and toaster oven for a year with us and two small children, and an old frig that did not even make ice.

often the foodstamps or cash available can only buy smaller amounts, which are more expensive than the same product bought in bulk. potatoes for example, and they cannot afford the seasonings, condiments and other ingredients in a recipe that make it more nutritious or palatable. they often then resort to mixes and convenience stuff which are more expensive per serving.

critical is nutrition education. ran such a program thru headstart - 101 ways to cook with beans, burger, chicken backs and necks etc.
cooking this way takes longer and takes more skill, and sometimes more utensils and resourcs, which often the poor do not have.

please spare the comments about well if they got off welfare and went to work etc. In this country most of the de facto poor are the working poor, or seniors, disabled and those who cannot work, so we don’t need to hear it.
 
I think Annie does make some good points. Poverty is not a simple problem; it is a whole series of complex issues that has to do with living situation, family, neighborhood, etc.

I was, at one time, below the legal poverty line. I did not feel “disadvantaged”, because I had my family as a backup, had an okay place to live and basically few worries. I was not hungry, and I certainly did not have to suffer the same problems as members of the “underclass”.

But that seems to be the whole point- food stamps are at best a temporary solution, or a safety net for someone who wouldn’t or couldn’t save enough. They don’t address the real problems.

I would suggest that terms like “working poor” give an impression that might be only partially accurate. A person might have a job for the time being, yet still have a chaotic job history and lifestyle. Neighborhoods are bad because those who live there (only some, not necessarily all) live badly.

As far as I’m concerned, anti poverty efforts need to start with stabilizing the family, and encouraging marriage where reasonable. Even addiction and work ethic issues ultimately flow from there, because if a person doesn’t feel that they have someone to care for them it’s terribly hard to strive to overcome other problems. I would dare say that’s why religiously based anti poverty efforts can be so successful- they give a person some reason to live better.
 
I think Annie does make some good points. Poverty is not a simple problem; it is a whole series of complex issues that has to do with living situation, family, neighborhood, etc.

I was, at one time, below the legal poverty line. I did not feel “disadvantaged”, because I had my family as a backup, had an okay place to live and basically few worries. I was not hungry, and I certainly did not have to suffer the same problems as members of the “underclass”.
I am reminded of a time I was deer hunting in Wythe County, Virginia. Coming down Big Walker Mouintain, I followed an old “trace” – perhaps a wagon road at one time. There in the woods I found a building. Inside was a huge cast iron cauldron, set in stones, with a firebox below and a flue behind. All around it were tin spouts – thousands of them.

This was a maple sugar refinery – now allowed to fall into ruin.

What irony! A couple of generations earlier, people tapped maple trees, made sugar, raised crops, put in gardens – and lived well. Yet all around me in my time was poverty – people who didn’t have the things their grandparents made for themselves.
But that seems to be the whole point- food stamps are at best a temporary solution, or a safety net for someone who wouldn’t or couldn’t save enough. They don’t address the real problems.
The point can be made that food stamps – and welfare in general – is more a part of the problem than of the solution. The welfare culture has become institutionalized amongst us.
I would suggest that terms like “working poor” give an impression that might be only partially accurate. A person might have a job for the time being, yet still have a chaotic job history and lifestyle. Neighborhoods are bad because those who live there (only some, not necessarily all) live badly.
I am reminded of the case of the woman found dead from exposure sitting on a bus stop bench in front of the Department of Housing and Urban Development during the last administration. The Secretary of HUD (Henry Cisneros) considered it – at first – an indictment of his department.

But on investigation, they found the woman had a plastic wallet on a string around her neck. In that wallet, they found several hundred dollars in cash and a ticket for a bed at a shelter for that night. They also found that she had a family that was out looking for her.

Now, how do you help a person like that? She didn’t die because she lacked money, shelter or family – she chose not to take advantage of them.

Some would say, “She’s mentally disturbed – put her in an institution.” But she’s committed no crime, and doesn’t want to go to an institution. And if you start locking people up “for their own good,” where will you stop?
As far as I’m concerned, anti poverty efforts need to start with stabilizing the family, and encouraging marriage where reasonable. Even addiction and work ethic issues ultimately flow from there, because if a person doesn’t feel that they have someone to care for them it’s terribly hard to strive to overcome other problems. I would dare say that’s why religiously based anti poverty efforts can be so successful- they give a person some reason to live better.
The problem is our anti-poverty programs caused the destabilization. The man-in-the-house rule broke up families. Urban renewal broke up working neighborhoods and condemned people to live in depersonalized “projects” where anomie, crime and drugs ran rampant.

Paying more welfare for more out-of-wedlock children produced more such children. Allowing schools to operate without accountability for their product resulted in uneducated chidren.

The system fed – and feeds – on itself. In the words of Pogo Possum, “We have met the enemy and he is us.” With hearts full of charity and a determination to help the poor, we created a disaster.
 
Hi Vern,

You reflect many of my thoughts. The biggest concern would be any tendency to weaken family ties, and especially marriage, with so-called “anti-poverty” programs. That would do more to aggravate poverty than just about anything else.

It’s not just the poor these days. Many people in my generation and younger seem to think marriage is just an optional party to celebrate the couple, and has no relation to childbearing. Or even more confusing, they seem to be trying to avoid divorce by delaying marriage- but will cohabit and bear children (!!!)

The comment about how people used to make things is well-taken. It’s almost absurd, how people are dependent on consumer products today, and that definitely applies to rich as well as poor. Most seem not to realize that there is a satisfaction in making something that cannot be matched; I’d even suggest that this general lack of creativity in our culture could possibly contribute to our high depression rates. Anyway, I’d like to see if it ever pans out in a study.
 
Hi Vern,

You reflect many of my thoughts. The biggest concern would be any tendency to weaken family ties, and especially marriage, with so-called “anti-poverty” programs. That would do more to aggravate poverty than just about anything else.
Indeed they do – people will live in apalling conditions, if the living is free. And the children raised under those conditions are not likely to be able to break the cycle. This is what welfare has created.

At the same time, we have failed in the most critical area – thirty percent of all kids fail to graduate from high school. And in my state (Arkansas) 58% of those who do graduate and go on to college have to take remedial subjects – in other words, the best and brighest are graduated from high school withouit ever mastering a high school level of learning.
It’s not just the poor these days. Many people in my generation and younger seem to think marriage is just an optional party to celebrate the couple, and has no relation to childbearing. Or even more confusing, they seem to be trying to avoid divorce by delaying marriage- but will cohabit and bear children (!!!)
I wish they would look at the statistics – kids who are born out of wedlock are far more likely to drop out of school, have behavioral problems, take drugs, commit crimes and so on.

We need to teach people that children are a responsibility, not a “right.” And if you’re not ready to discharge that responsibility, you have no right to embark on behavior that produces children.

Marriage is the first step in showing responsibility as an adult.
The comment about how people used to make things is well-taken. It’s almost absurd, how people are dependent on consumer products today, and that definitely applies to rich as well as poor. Most seem not to realize that there is a satisfaction in making something that cannot be matched; I’d even suggest that this general lack of creativity in our culture could possibly contribute to our high depression rates. Anyway, I’d like to see if it ever pans out in a study.
Take a cruise of these forums. In many threads, the theme is “Somebody should do something!! (but not me and not the Church!”)
 
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