Hunger in Amercia

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But there is a definite shortage of fresh food in inner city areas and it is not because the residents don’t want it:
If food stores stock fresh food and nobody buys it, then the food will spoil and the stores will have to throw it away … a complete loss.

So, the stores only stock what people buy.

If you drive around and visit stores in different cultural neighborhoods, even “standard” supermarkets have dramatically different ethnic foods. Plenty of fresh food, but also plenty of cultural favorites.

In addition, thanks to the wonders of capitalism, there are folks selling from pushcarts and the backs of trucks.

In the Bronx, one day, there was a truck loaded with crates of mangoes … doing a wonderful business.

All over, there are so many people selling from pushcarts (including fresh fruits and veggies) that the City had to force them to “spread out” because the sidewalks were being blocked.

I was at a major train station last week, and there was a gorgeous stall full of fresh fruits and vegetables.

Have you ever seen what the Korean immigrants have done to revolutionize food selling in the United States? There are Korean fruit and vegetable stores everywhere.

If there is a need, someone will pop up to satisfy that need. And that includes fresh food.

[My goodness, there are not one, but two, large chains of supermarkets that are relatively new offering competition in the fresh food area: Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods.]

Whole Foods is huge and even has a stock ticker symbol: WFMI.

Trader Joe’s is privately held,

traderjoes.com/locations.asp

New stores open up all the time, offering tons of new varieties of food. Lately, there has been yet another shift as huge numbers of people who speak Polish have moved into very mixed inner city neighborhoods.

The parish bulletin for St. Matthias Church in Queens, NY shows 10 Sunday (and Saturday evening) Masses … in English, German, Polish and Spanish. The neighborhood has not only large supermarkets, but also Korean and Polish food stores, and a store that advertises in the bulletin that calls itself “Ridgewood [Queens] Fresh Market” … Spanish, Polish, European Products; and they take food stamps.

And just recently a new diner opened, that has everything … the guy who runs it? His name is Jesus. No joke.
 
DHC1Chipmunk;3607060:
We **do **
feed the hungry. That’s charity.

What we don’t do is change the system so the hungry can feed themselves. That’s social justice.

Name me one social justice program.

Why are we moving to a challenge to define a social justice program? The Bible is quite clear about charity…1 Corinthians 13:13. I am also curious about the phrase “forced charity,” which unless more clearly explained is a contradiction in terms. Sign me confused.
 
Al Masetti;3611006]
When I was working, I used to eat a hot dog for lunch. Just one. Cost a dollar. No soda. All protein. Plus the bun which was starch. From one of those carts on the sidewalk. Lots of other people did the same. And it was very quick. Went to noon Mass and had a hot dog while I walked back to work. No mustard or relish or sauerkraut because it was too messy and I’d get it all over myself.
Had no name generic tea bags at my desk. A cup of tea cost a penny.
There was also a fruit stand/cart. For a dollar, I bought a whole bag of fruit.
A McDonalds or Burger King basic hamburger (no fries or soda) is also cheap. No extras.
If the office had a fridge, sometimes I would bring or buy a yoghurt. Less than a dollar. I’d keep a container of milk for my tea … splurged on coffee bags a few times.
For breakfast, an egg on a roll. Pretty cheap. I did splurge and get an el cheapo coffee, but I saved the cup to reuse with my tea later.
Hi! Yeah, sure, there are all kinds of ways to eat cheaply. No doubt.*
 
If you work with the poor, as my wife and I do, you quickly see that they are very poorly educated. My wife trains young people as Certified Nursing Assistances (CNAs). She encourages them to go on and become Licensed Practical Nurses (LPNs) and even Registered Nurses.
Vern,

You could not be more on target. I fortunately live in an area where the public school system is still relatively well managed…maybe because of an excellent Catholic school system.
However, this is unfortunately becoming an exception. If I had taken time to read the entire thread, I’d offer the old fishing story, but I’d hate to be redundant.

Be well,

John
 
vern humphrey;
Name me one social justice program.
commerce.state.il.us/dceo/Bureaus/Workforce_Development/

“The Bureau of Workforce Development is committed to encouraging statewide economic development by cultivating a well-trained workforce.To accomplish this goal, the Bureau identifies youth, adults and dislocated workers who are eligible for assistance under the Workforce Investment Act (WIA), assesses their employability skills and provides training as appropriate for identified sectors of growing employment demand. Ideally, this will lead to the placement of these individuals in self-sufficient employment. The Bureau also provides follow-up services leading to employment retention in high-wage and high-skilled jobs. These services are provided statewide while maintaining focus on the economic needs of each region.”

But, for the most part, the best social justice program in this nation, is getting a job. Maybe two. I did it and I am damn proud of it. No system will change fatherless children and messed up families.
 
Al Masetti;3611006]

Hi! Yeah, sure, there are all kinds of ways to eat cheaply. No doubt.
My point was that a lot of folks consider it beneath them to eat cheaply. I grew up in financially difficult circumstances and spent my whole life … not in poverty … but, rather, living economically. And, when hard times occurred, which they did, it was relatively easy to adjust to minimal i.e., zero or negative] cash flow.

I want to avoid false pride … but living cheaply can be done without living in a cardboard box and without malnutrition. And without credit cards. And without drastic lurches up and down. It’s bad enough being unemployed / self-employed for long periods without having to endure severe economic lurches.

One time I was a guest for lunch at a convent and the sisters apologized for their simple fare. It was actually my favorite meal. Tuna salad sandwiches.

Did I ever splurge? Yup. With the money I saved by not having a car until I was 25, I was able to afford to take flying lessons as a teenager; rode my fat tire bicycle to the airport. Continued with that activity for a number of years. In Libya, I rode my skinny tire bike to the airport. In Pakistan, I rode my other fat tire bike to the airport. Started when I was a teenager with money I saved for nine years from collecting soda and beer bottles at construction sites. When I had my own place, I was able to buy books. Reminds me of the priest who said that when he had money he bought books; if there was money left over, he bought food.

When we moved to this house, I showed pictures to the people at work, and my boss’s boss said he didn’t know they made houses that small.

One day Fr. Benedict asked me to give him a ride and when he got in the car, he had to admit, that it was an OLD car. It was hilarious.
 
DHC1Chipmunk;3617175]
I am also curious about the phrase “forced charity,” which unless more clearly explained is a contradiction in terms. Sign me confused
Forced charity is socialism. For example: I do not have children, but I HAVE to pay taxes that funds schools. Forced charity is taxes. You have no option, BUT, to have your money taken from you to pay for social programs. It is supposedly a good thing(charity), but you have no choice in the matter(forced).
 
DHC1Chipmunk;3617175]

Forced charity is socialism. For example: I do not have children, but I HAVE to pay taxes that funds schools. Forced charity is taxes. You have no option, BUT, to have your money taken from you to pay for social programs. It is supposedly a good thing(charity), but you have no choice in the matter(forced).
Oh, I see what you mean. Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking you meant that folks who cannot afford food are forced to accept charity or go hungry.

I prefer to give voluntarily (as in, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing) and not necessarily only to an organization, but I do not plan to withhold payment of any of my taxes. Render unto Caeser…
 
Why are we moving to a challenge to define a social justice program? The Bible is quite clear about charity…1 Corinthians 13:13. I am also curious about the phrase “forced charity,” which unless more clearly explained is a contradiction in terms. Sign me confused.
ecatholic2000.com/sj/socjust.shtml
In order to define social justice, let us begin, by taking a look at what social ministry is:
Social Ministry has two main aspects: social service (also known as Parish Outreach) and social action
Social Service is giving direct aid to someone in need. It usually involves performing one or more of the corporal works of mercy. That is, giving alms to the poor, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick or imprisoned, taking care of orphans and widows, visiting the shut-ins etc. Another name for it is charity.
Social Action is correcting the structures that perpetuate the need. Another name for this is Social Justice. Through the lens of social justice, we begin to take a look at the problems and issues facing us in our own communities, the nation and finally the world, and we begin to ask questions such as, “Why is there so much unemployment in our area?” “Why are there so many poor in our community?” “How will the deforestation of our rain forests affect our global climate?” etc. Very often when you are performing social service, you also become involved in solving the problem which created the need in the first place, and the two are closely related and often blend together. An example of this would be, someone comes to your food pantry, and tells you he/she has no food, because he/she lost their job recently. You may know of an employer looking to hire someone right away for a job requiring little or no skills. You give that person food, then place that person in touch with the employer. You then would have solved both problems for that person. (a) the immediate need of food through an act of charity (social service) and (b) you would have corrected the problem which created and perpetuated the need. (social justice)
In other words, charity – while a good thing – does not correct the social problems that make charity necessary.

Go to our inner cities, into our depressed rural areas, and you can find some families that have been on welfare (government charity) for four generations. Wouldn’t you agree we ought to do something to get these people out of poverty? That would be social justice.

So my challenge is, tell me what we’re doing to end the poverty cycle and make these people self-supporting?

As for “forced charity,” consider this – charity benefits two people. Clearly, it benefits the receiver, who gets food, clothing, and so on. But it also benefits the giver, who gains grace and merit.

Now, when your “charitable gift” is taken from you by the IRS, using the force of law, what grace and merit do you gain?

It seems many people’s idea of “charitable giving” is to root for higher taxes – that is, forced giving – for other people.

As I have said before, I have seen many people on these forums support more government programs and higher taxes for other people. But I have yet to see anyone say, “I must work harder, so I can earn more and pay more to help others.”
 
Nobody should have to go hungry, and I believe in this country very few, if any, do. That being said, there are plenty of places in the world where people starve to death. Its a real problem, and I don’t have an answer. But you can bet your butt that that whacko Moyers is not giving any of his millions to relieve hunger anywhere…Roanoker
Sadly, many of those places in the world also struggle with corruption…which prevents food, resources and money from getting to those in need. For instance, we have been sending aid of all kinds to various locations in Africa (Ethopia immediately comes to mind) but the problems continue…and that is due to the corrupt leaders of those nations who deprive their own people of their basic needs to remain in power.

As far as hunger in America goes…there is no reason for it…since the government provides countless programs…in addition, there are non-profit organizations, homeless shelters, church programs of all denominations and all sorts of other charities available to those in need.

If a child is starving in America…its due, sadly, to neglect and little else.
 
Oh, I see what you mean. Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking you meant that folks who cannot afford food are forced to accept charity or go hungry.

I prefer to give voluntarily (as in, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing) and not necessarily only to an organization, but I do not plan to withhold payment of any of my taxes. Render unto Caeser…
And this woud be our duty…however, sadly, too many believe that when the government provides social programs, they no longer have to “help” their neighbor in need…because the “government” is taking from them to do so…sigh…

It is our duty and obligation to help those within our family, our friends, our neighbors and strangers…when we see them in need, just as you indicate, to do so voluntarily.
 
What I have seen is that hunger in America is usually a result of abuse and disability. Parents who won’t feed their kids enough because they are mentally ill and think everything except ramen, or everything except mushrooms, is bad for them e.g., so he kids don’t get enough. And people who can’t get to the food bank or the store. I know some very smart, energetic, highly educated people who have been through extreme food deprivation and actually one is really starving now. The problem is social. These are situations a big government isn’t going to solve. Friends, families and churches need to be alert for them.
 
Sadly, many of those places in the world also struggle with corruption…which prevents food, resources and money from getting to those in need. For instance, we have been sending aid of all kinds to various locations in Africa (Ethopia immediately comes to mind) but the problems continue…and that is due to the corrupt leaders of those nations who deprive their own people of their basic needs to remain in power.

As far as hunger in America goes…there is no reason for it…since the government provides countless programs…in addition, there are non-profit organizations, homeless shelters, church programs of all denominations and all sorts of other charities available to those in need.

If a child is starving in America…its due, sadly, to neglect and little else.
Correct all around. Hunger in most of the world is due to corrupt governments and tribal warfare.

I had a sociology professor years ago who told me the hardest thing to do in America is to starve to death – “People will haul you out of the gutter and make you eat.”

Sadly, there are people who are mentally ill, and either unable or unwilling to take advantage of the many sources of help. And there are parents who do not take care of their children.

But no one need go hungry in America.
 
ecatholic2000.com/sj/socjust.shtml

In other words, charity – while a good thing – does not correct the social problems that make charity necessary.

Go to our inner cities, into our depressed rural areas, and you can find some families that have been on welfare (government charity) for four generations. Wouldn’t you agree we ought to do something to get these people out of poverty? That would be social justice.

So my challenge is, tell me what we’re doing to end the poverty cycle and make these people self-supporting?

As for “forced charity,” consider this – charity benefits two people. Clearly, it benefits the receiver, who gets food, clothing, and so on. But it also benefits the giver, who gains grace and merit.

Now, when your “charitable gift” is taken from you by the IRS, using the force of law, what grace and merit do you gain?

It seems many people’s idea of “charitable giving” is to root for higher taxes – that is, forced giving – for other people.

As I have said before, I have seen many people on these forums support more government programs and higher taxes for other people. But I have yet to see anyone say, “I must work harder, so I can earn more and pay more to help others.”
In order for people to lift themselves out of poverty they have to go to work. And work is … work. It is somewhat difficult. It may be easier for some folks to stay home and “game the system”.

In addition, there is usually a need for education, as well. And some folks just don’t see the value of graduating from high school. But that’s important … essential for most folks, to get out of the poverty trap.

Interesting blog on the poverty trap:

gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2008/02/poverty-trap.html
 
The best thing you can do for another person is to meet the most basic need of that person. If the eight-year-old down the street would be eating if any of several factors were different (Mom was mentally clear, he had someone slip him a dollar every day, he was legally allowed to work and leave home, he was placed in different custody) but you don’t know how to make any of those thigns happen, bring him to your house and feed him in the meantime anyway, and ask a friend to do the same and pass it on. And pray. A way to deal with the underlying issue will open up. If your disabled best friend is starving because she can’t get to the store and her myriad social workers and aides won’t bring her enough food or just take her to the store and you can’t drive her there either, swing by with a few things you know she can eat once in a while and ask someone else to do the same. And so on. If your inner-city neighborhood doesn’t have a grocery store and you run a bar there, invite a local fruit dealer to use your parking lot to sell fresh produce, free until it takes off. Sell salad. Advertise it. Push veggies. Little things add up. If your desert town is going out of business because the factory moved and the stores are expensive, help folks move out of there.
 
This is long, but, IMO, very much worth reading.

pubdef.ocgov.com/poverty.htm

*It has been said that a civilized society is best measured by how it treats the poor. If such is the case, we Americans are abject failures. Nationwide over 20% of our children live in poverty. In Los Angeles 30% of all children are poor.

According to the Children Defense Fund, which has collected and studied this data for over a decade: “Recent academic studies demonstrate that the effects of poverty cannot be explained away as mere side effects of single parenthood, race, parents low IQ’s or lack of education.” To the contrary, poverty itself spawns this waste and desolation.

If poverty were a disease it would be the most insidious, devastating, and life threatening disease that Americans suffer. The poor suffer not just economically, but they also suffer lack of opportunity, lack of education, lack of health care, and significantly more violence than others better situated in the community. They suffer higher disease rates, death rates and imprisonment than their affluent brethren. They are imprisoned at much higher rates and they are executed for capital crimes more often than any other group. In fact, they are almost the exclusive recipients of the death penalty.

20.5 percent of all children under age 18 were poor

11.1 percent of White children were poor

39.9 percent of Black children were poor

40.3 percent of Hispanic children were poor and

19.5 percent of Asian/Pacific Islander children were poor

In Washington D.C. and Los Angeles more than 30% of young black men are in jail, on probation, or on parole for the commission of crime. The vast majority of these young men are poor. African American and Hispanic communities have understandably become alarmed. Concerned community leaders complain that entire generations of young minority men are being put at risk by incarceration.

There is good reason to fear that minority men are severely at risk in the criminal justice system. 71% of all “3 strike” offenders in California prisons are African Americans or Latino Americans. What is worse, these men are all serving 25 to life sentences. Unbelievably, many of these men are serving these life sentences for petty theft and minor drug offenses. Offenses such as these are common among the poor. So common in fact that minority people suffer imprisonment wildly disproportional to their numbers in the general population.

For example, while previous studies have shown that African Americans and white Americans use drugs at about the same rate, African Americans are charged at nearly five times the rate of whites, and in “3 strikes” cases at 17 times the rates of whites in Los Angeles.

Minorities are treated differently in the courts. They are viewed with suspicion, they are held in custody longer, they are presumed guilty, their defense is poorly funded compared to the prosecution, and they are often treated abusively by the people who are charged with enforcing our laws.

Even though we are the most affluent country in the world, we continue to commit a greater proportion of our citizens to prison than any other civilized country. The vast majority of these people are poor.

In the past several decades we have increased punishment for hundreds of crimes. We increased punishments for drug use, theft, burglary, robbery, rape, and car jacking. You name the behavior. We increased the punishment.

We enacted new laws; 3 strike laws, one-strike laws, and career criminal laws. For good measure, we increased the number of crimes allowing life sentences and death penalties. We became punishment delirious. We doubled the number of people in prison but did very little to stop serious crime. And who are the people going to jail for these newly enhanced crimes? You have seen the data. Poor people are going to jail.

If crime is on the decrease, someone neglected to talk to the caretakers of our prison system. Prison population in California is about 160,000 and is over twice the prison population in 1987. Most of these inmates are poor minorities and whites.

So, even though it is very clear that our criminal justice system is broken, and many within the system have lost confidence in it, we keep chasing the same solutions. More punishment for longer terms seems to be our only response. Why do we persist in addressing the symptoms rather than the causes? I believe because we have sufficiently isolated the poor who are not like “us”, and sufficiently demeaned them, that we have become indifferent to their plight. It is a matter of insensitivity and arrogance. It is our arrogance. We are more concerned about our status, our houses, our cars and our vacations than we are about taking care of each other.

Our unwillingness or inability to educate ourselves about poverty and do something about it is astounding. Our failure in this regard, may ultimately be very destructive to our democracy. There is already a perception in this country that giving up a few Constitutional rights is a fair exchange for personal safety.

There are other less drastic solutions however; solutions which do not exact increasingly severe jail sentences, solutions that do not further isolate poor minorities, but solutions which reach the causes of poverty and crime. *

***" There is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions: indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skins have different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter."

Robert Kennedy***
 
***" There is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions: indifference and inaction and slow decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skins have different colors. This is the slow destruction of a child by hunger, and schools without books and homes without heat in the winter."

Robert Kennedy***
And in the 40 years since he said that, Robert Kennedy’s party has abjectly failed to improve the schools, reduce poverty, or solve the problems of minorities.
 
And in the 40 years since he said that, Robert Kennedy’s party has abjectly failed to improve the schools, reduce poverty, or solve the problems of minorities.
That’s because they’ve been outnumbered by the other party - who don’t believe in govt helping the poor, only the rich, IMO. 😉
 
That’s because they’ve been outnumbered by the other party - who don’t believe in govt helping the poor, only the rich, IMO. 😉
That’s not true at all…sigh…

And please tell me…who employs the “poor”? Through the “rich” owning of corporations and businesses of all kinds many of us have the ability to take care of ourselves by WORKING for them!

I know…working, its a difficult concept for those on the left to grasp…it means being personally responsible and accountable!! It means relying on your own God given talents, skills and abilities, rather than looking for the government to provide you a job, a home, food, security, etc, etc.
 
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