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leftistdestroye
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SoCalRC;3627347]
That should have been directed at Swan as well.
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Swan
Guest
I am not a bit surprised that you would come to such a radically incorrect conclusion.
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vern_humphrey
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Actually, he’s radically correct. When people degenerate into vituperation, personal attacks, and bigotry, they are in melt-down, out of facts and logic.I am not a bit surprised that you would come to such a radically incorrect conclusion.
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neat62
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“*Never mind what others do,” he said. “Do better than yourself, beat your own record from day to day, and you are a success.”
“You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.”
"You cannot help small men by tearing down big men."
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.”
"You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer."
"You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich."
“You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.”
“You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.”
“You cannot establish security on borrowed money.”
“You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence.”
"You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."*
~ Born in Hamburg, Germany, Presbyterian minister William J.H. Boetcker (1873-1962) lectured around the United States about the hard work and character that leads to success.
“You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.”
"You cannot help small men by tearing down big men."
“You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.”
"You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer."
"You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich."
“You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.”
“You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.”
“You cannot establish security on borrowed money.”
“You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence.”
"You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves."*
~ Born in Hamburg, Germany, Presbyterian minister William J.H. Boetcker (1873-1962) lectured around the United States about the hard work and character that leads to success.
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Swan
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For the record, I did not “get personal” - I said I found his/her posts amusing. Now I’ve had folks post like ROFL smilie on my posts indicating they found them amusing - it is not a personal attack. It means they find my opinions funny/laughable. This poster says my posts are BS. I could certainly say that we personal is it is basically saying I’m full of s#%@. As for my refusal to continue this “debate” it is because it seems rather pointless.
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vern_humphrey
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And to whom did you address that remark?
That is personal, by definition.
Ah, if the mob approves, it’s okay.
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leftistdestroye
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Swan;3632901]
Only because it is sooooo typical. Happens ALL the time.I am not a bit surprised that you would come to such a radically incorrect conclusion.
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vern_humphrey
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This is the post that “isn’t personal.”You’re funny. Really.
Since it isn’t personal, there must be some logic, facts, or arument in it somewhere.
Can somebody help me find that?
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leftistdestroye
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Swan;3633622]
**I know you disagree with me and, interestingly enough, I don’t really care. I’m stating my opinion, not trying to change your mind. I actually find your rabid rants quite amusing.
You’re funny. Really. I sometimes come here just to read your posts for a smile. **
When you cannot come back with something, you always mention how “amusing” we are to you. How arrogant and condascending.
"And I stated my opinion. Again, typical lib, if you disagree with them, you are branded as “blameing the “victim”. BS.”
In response to this, where you accused me of “blaming the victim”:
**“Blaming the victim is a classic strategy of those who simply want to absolve themselves of the care of their fellow man (it’s not your fault or your problem, right). But, IMO, that’s a lame excuse for a pro-lifer. Somehow, should you ever be needy, I’ll bet you’d gladly accept help from the government it that’s all you could get.” **
My entire post was about limiting the government, like our Founding Fathers wanted.
Wrong, it means that someone said something that was funny. YOU, are using it as an insult. EX:
**I know you disagree with me and, interestingly enough, I don’t really care. I’m stating my opinion, not trying to change your mind. I actually find your rabid rants quite amusing.
You’re funny. Really. I sometimes come here just to read your posts for a smile. **
When you cannot come back with something, you always mention how “amusing” we are to you. How arrogant and condascending.
No, I said your tactic is BS.
"And I stated my opinion. Again, typical lib, if you disagree with them, you are branded as “blameing the “victim”. BS.”
In response to this, where you accused me of “blaming the victim”:
**“Blaming the victim is a classic strategy of those who simply want to absolve themselves of the care of their fellow man (it’s not your fault or your problem, right). But, IMO, that’s a lame excuse for a pro-lifer. Somehow, should you ever be needy, I’ll bet you’d gladly accept help from the government it that’s all you could get.” **
My entire post was about limiting the government, like our Founding Fathers wanted.
Then why not excuse yourself? Instead, you come back with how “amusing” we are to you. Get lost. And putting the word debate in quotes, shows us that you are just trying to instigate and cause a diversion, which is EXACTLY what we are doing right this very second. You think that we were born yesterday???
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Swan
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You know, I really never meant to be offensive - and if I was, I apologize. And I’ll make a confession to you - if I didn’t laugh at your remarks I would cry. Why? Because I find your attitude cold and heartless. (DISCLAIMER: let’s be clear here - I’m talking about your attitude, not you - I’m NOT getting personal, simply stating my opinion). I also never even speculated on whether or not any poster had gone through hard times. I didn’t even broach this subject regarding myself. Nor was I ever suggesting that able bodied folks shouldn’t work - I believe they should. All of my posts have been about taking care of those who can’t take care of themselves. I think government should help, you don’t.
I also find you argumentative. Specifically, in post #61 (this thread) I said that many were unable to help themselves, including children born into poverty. I suggested that goverment programs that helped them would enable them to be better citizens. Your response, in post #68, was that they get a job. When I responded in post #69 that I was talking about the helpless here - kids in this instance (in that getting a job is not usually an option for a two year old), you responded in post #77 by saying you had nothing against helping the helpless. And it went downhill from there. However, in looking back on this thread I did find one thing you said that I agree with
, which was about the Mexicans and the tortilla riots.Again, I am sorry I let my emotions get the better of me. I truly believe that the most important way we can work for peace in the world is to be peaceful with one another, especially in cases where we find ourselevs in disagreement with others over issues we find very important.
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vern_humphrey
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Now you’re trying to blow smoke up our kilts, and it tickles.
What ever happened to, “I’m sorry?”
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leftistdestroye
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Swan;3634572]
Yes, I am angry. I am angry when govenment tell people what to do, how to act, etc, all in the name of “caring”. I am angry that our society has become a greedy, selfish, rude, perverted, cesspool. And like it or not, but Liberalism, Feminism, and big government ARE responsible for it. I am mad as hell and I am gunna show likeminded people that it is GOOD to stand up and show a backbone. To not be afraid of THEIR beliefs! To show support of self reliance and responsibillity, not dependancy.
I know that you mean well, most people do. My issue is with the slippery slope. It DOES exist and it is always BAD! For every evil that is “cured” we end up with five new ones. Social engineering, for example. Most of that, are experiments, which look good on paper, but create disasterous unintended consequences.
Peace will never be achieved in the world by humans. Sounds cruel and harsh, but it is a fact. In regards to your last paragraph, I would love to see that happen. I would. But as long as there is one extreme pushing it’s ideology, there must be an equal/opposite one to counter it.
I will post this on the other thread as well, because I saw your last comment on it. I made my last post there, before I read your last post, here.
I also find you argumentative. Specifically, in post #61 (this thread) I said that many were unable to help themselves, including children born into poverty. I suggested that goverment programs that helped them would enable them to be better citizens. Your response, in post #68, was that they get a job. When I responded in post #69 that I was talking about the helpless here - kids in this instance (in that getting a job is not usually an option for a two year old), you responded in post #77 by saying you had nothing against helping the helpless. And it went downhill from there. However, in looking back on this thread I did find one thing you said that I agree with
Look, we all want the same thing. We all want peace and love and harmony. We do not want war. Some of us may support war, but we do not get off on it. Al of the above, includes ME. I think that big governmnet IS NOT the answer. We have seen time and time again the negative effects of larger governments and what they can do to the people. Not some people, but ALL of the people. I believe that state and local governments should help out those in desperate need, not the Feds. Don’t you think that there were needy people when our nation was founded? Of course there were, but private entities aided those people. Families, strangers, friends, etc. Our government is supposed to be a limited one, where they stay OUT of our lives. The larger the government has become, the less private folks have stepped up to the plate. Since then we have become greedy, selfish, and unfriendly. We have enabled people to become lazy, dependant, and have frauded the tax payers. You see the government as an extension of average people. I see it as a monster who will make you dependant on it. Once dependant, you are owned, by them, and your freedom will vanish. Slaves are made in such ways.Again, I am sorry I let my emotions get the better of me. I truly believe that the most important way we can work for peace in the world is to be peaceful with one another, especially in cases where we find ourselevs in disagreement with others over issues we find very important.
Yes, I am angry. I am angry when govenment tell people what to do, how to act, etc, all in the name of “caring”. I am angry that our society has become a greedy, selfish, rude, perverted, cesspool. And like it or not, but Liberalism, Feminism, and big government ARE responsible for it. I am mad as hell and I am gunna show likeminded people that it is GOOD to stand up and show a backbone. To not be afraid of THEIR beliefs! To show support of self reliance and responsibillity, not dependancy.
I know that you mean well, most people do. My issue is with the slippery slope. It DOES exist and it is always BAD! For every evil that is “cured” we end up with five new ones. Social engineering, for example. Most of that, are experiments, which look good on paper, but create disasterous unintended consequences.
Peace will never be achieved in the world by humans. Sounds cruel and harsh, but it is a fact. In regards to your last paragraph, I would love to see that happen. I would. But as long as there is one extreme pushing it’s ideology, there must be an equal/opposite one to counter it.
I will post this on the other thread as well, because I saw your last comment on it. I made my last post there, before I read your last post, here.
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Swan
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I agree with you on the slippery slopes. I keep running into the same issue no matter what solution I try to imagine and that is humans will be involved leading to human error and human greed and corruption. This happens on all sides - the left, right and middle. Perhaps that’s why so many folks want the government out - government can’t be trusted. I do agree with that too. You don’t have to find me examples of this, I can do it myself.
And you are probably right about peace. It’ll never work as long as someone’s around to blow it, and someone always will be. Honestly, it really does make me want to cry/scream (not at you). I guess that it is really easy for me to lose hope sometimes (I’m bi-polar and have had a really bad year or so, which affects my outlook - I’m mention this in the interest of full disclosure). I have to remind myself that Utopia = “no place” so I should stop expecting to find it.
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leftistdestroye
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I think that we should be the best people we can, help as many people as we can(us, not the government), thank God that we live in a country, when compared to other counties, that is pretty darn good. We should follow what God expects from us, and we should strive love Him as much as He loves us. And we must follow the guidelines that He has set for us.I agree with you on the slippery slopes. I keep running into the same issue no matter what solution I try to imagine and that is humans will be involved leading to human error and human greed and corruption. This happens on all sides - the left, right and middle. Perhaps that’s why so many folks want the government out - government can’t be trusted. I do agree with that too. You don’t have to find me examples of this, I can do it myself.
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vern_humphrey
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As Ronald Reagan used to point out, if you assume everyone below the poverty line has no money at all, and just gave each of them a check to bring them well over the poverty level, you’d spend only a fraction of what we spend on “poverty programs” – and yet, they’re still poor.
With the best will in the world, we have locked people into poverty, generation after generation, and we show no signs of learning from our mistakes.
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Scottgun
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Vern, your challenge to name a single social justice program is illuminating. I never thought of it that way. Ok, I may have got an inkling of it when reading the Holy Father’s encyclicals Deus Caritas Est and *Spe Salvi, *but although charity and social justice are related, they are distinct, and that distinction is important and all manner of trouble comes from acting like they are the same thing.
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vern_humphrey
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You’re absolutely right. Many people define Social Justice as, “Whatever I think is fair.”
The Catholic Church has (or rather had) a superb Social Justice program – Catholic schools, which educated the children of poor immigrants and pushed them into the economic mainstream. Those schools are closing rapidly now, though, and no one cares.
The public schools in the poorest areas are abject failures. We should be making a major effort to expand our Catholic schools in areas of poverty, educating the children of the poor, and putting their feet on the economic ladder.
Unfortunately, we don’t care.
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leftistdestroye
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vern humphrey;3636023]
What do you mean we have locked them into poverty?
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vern_humphrey
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Go into the inner cities, or the poor rural areas and look around. You will find families who have been on welfare for generations. Families that now have no tradition of valuing education, hard work, thrift, and so on.
Along with that, you will find our worst schools, politicians and “leaders” who tell the poor they can’t make it (so why try?)
You will find in cities huge “projects” where the poor are concentrated – swamping the economic foundation, so there are very few jobs immediately available.
You will find large numbers of single parent families – created by the welfare system under the infamous “man in the house” rule. You will find a society where welfare is an economic strategy, and where out-of-wedlock pregnancy is a rite of passage.
We created this situation.
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Sheeniac
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Vern,
There are job training programs sponsored by the government. Wouldn’t these be social justice? What about classes to help adulst get their GED? Or tax credits for businesses hiring those who were on welfare or ex-cons?
In the secular world, there are 501c3s that help women find appropriate (donated) interview and work training.
Yes - the vast majority of gov’t programs are “charity”-like, but there are a few rays of hope.
There are job training programs sponsored by the government. Wouldn’t these be social justice? What about classes to help adulst get their GED? Or tax credits for businesses hiring those who were on welfare or ex-cons?
In the secular world, there are 501c3s that help women find appropriate (donated) interview and work training.
Yes - the vast majority of gov’t programs are “charity”-like, but there are a few rays of hope.
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