Huron College at UWO is Also Honoring a Pro-Abortion Writer

[Traditional_Ang]

Brothers and Sisters - First e-mail reply - From Dr. Neil Brooks:

Dear Michael…,

Any email addressing Huron University College’s decision to honor Joan Barfoot should be sent to Dr. Ramona Lumpkin at rlumpkin@uwo.ca. I am not sure whether you are suggesting that a novelist being honoured for her novels should have the honour rescinded but again any suggestion you would care to make should be addressed to the Principal of the college.

Personally, however, I would expect an apology from you for misquoting me in your email. You first quote me directly in an email I sent yesterday and then in the following paragraph again claim to quote me with*"what you choose to refer to as “A Woman’s Right to Choose”.* At one point did I refer to this?

Given the debate in which you are engaged and the Christian morality which informs your position, I would think that you would want truth on your side and attributing false quotations hardly seems either to serve your argument or serve God in any manner my Christianity can understand.

You are engaged in an important debate, shouldn’t truth rather than inflamatory, false rhetoric guide your discussion? I look forward to your apology.

Sincerely,

Neil Brooks

Brothers and Sisters - My Reply:

Dr. Brooks:

You’re absolutely correct - You are rightly owed an apology, if the statement does not acurately reflect your position. If you are opposed to “Abortion Rights” or “A Woman’s Right to Choose” or are opposed to Legalized Abortions, I apologize for what would then be untruthful remarks made in the heat of the moment and beg forgiveness.

Dr. Brooks, were those untruthful remarks? Do you believe that the overwhelming majority of abortions should be outlawed and the phrase “The Right to Choose” is a deliberate obfuscation? or, Is your position more accurately represented by people such as Dr. Morgantaler, Ms. Barfoot and the ECUSA before
reconsideration?

I must admit that I’ve not seen public statements of yours on this issue, and the Anglican Church of Canada’s position on Abortion is not exactly anti-Abortion, and the ECUSA used to say that they supported “A Woman’s Right to Choose” in all
situations.

Regarding contacting Dr. Ramona Lumpkin and only Dr. Ramona Lumpkin on this - You were the one who announced that the choice to honor Ms. Barfoot had been made months in advance. I’m sure that means others besides Dr, Lumpkin were involved in the decision. Therefore, I see no reason why those involved shouldn’t be informed as to the possible consequences of their decision. If you do, please enlighten me, and I’ll reconsider my position.

Besides, If you are Anti-Abortion or Pro-Life, don’t you want to know that you’re not alone, no matter how clumsily you find out?

Either way, this controversy will be over before you know it.

In Christ, Michael…

Dr. Brooks never stated that the statement did not accurately reflect his position - He only demanded an apology.

What I gave him was a conditional one - If the statement is false, I apologize. And, then I asked him what his position was.

I think that’s fair. I’ll be surprised if he responds.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

This Letter is for Principal Dr. Lukpin and for the rest of the Faculty

Dr. Brooks’ Remarks that the Decision to honor Ms. Barfoot was made months ago

Dr. Ramona Lumpkin Principal

Dear Principal Dr. Lumpkin:

I understand that Sunday, in response to a letter and e-mail campaign initiated by a few friends and yours truly, Dr. Brooks announced that the decision to have Ms. Joan Barfoot speak at your Convocation was not made as initially reported, but was “made several months ago independent of any knowledge of UWO’s selection of honorary degree recipients”. That doesn’t change the fact that, given the her recent defense of UWO’s decision to honor Dr. Henry Morgantaler and her recent attacks on those protesting that decision, it appears that Huron University College is honoring her for that defense.

Principal Lumpkin, it also doesn’t change the fact that most of the members of the Worldwide Anglican Communion do not approve of Unlimited Abortion Rights or of Abortion on Demand, if they approve of allowing Abortion at all. and, It doesn’t change the fact that many of those members will now be listening to any remarks Ms. Barfoot may choose to make in regard to the Morgantaler controversy or about what some may choose to refer to as “A Woman’s Right to Choose”, and what many of the rest of us, and the Fathers of the Christian Church, call (and in the case of the Church Fathers, called) “Infanticide”.

Please understand, If Ms. Barfoot chooses to defend the Morgataler decision and to “trash” those protesting that decision during her speech, or to make any extended remarks supporting Abortion Rights, the Bishops and primates of the Anglican Global South will find out. That’s the nature of the internet. and, Having found out, they will act.

I don’t know if you’re a practicing Anglican, but that could have some repercussions for the Anglican Church of Canada and the Worldwide Anglican Communion of which both Huron University College and the Church of Canada are parts. Are you sure this one act to advance the Pro-Abortion agenda in Canada would is worth that?

Regards,
Name and Address on Original

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Brothers and Sisters - It is vital that you post any letters you send as well as replies you receive!

It is absolutely vital that we have the feedback so we know if what results we are getting with this!

Please post those letter and those replies, even if they seem stupid.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Rosalinda:

Traditional Ang, Here is a quote from James Schall, Catholic Commencements A Time for Truth to Be Honored, June 4 which you put up on the thread about Prolife speaker being cancelled at college. Is anybody speaking about the true, the good and the beautiful? These are classical values which have been cast aside in a vain effort to publicly whitewash infanticide. A red river of blood flows through North America while they primp their pompous egos.

www.ignatiusinsight.com

“Honorary degrees should be given for what is honorable. They should testify to what is honorable. They should be in a context of knowing what is honorable and what is not. By giving an honorary degree a university, whether it knows it or not, teaches us what it stands for. By accepting a degree, the recipient tells us what he stands for. Honor is a subtle thing, much more subtle than monetary rewards, as Aristotle also saw. It intends to emphasize the good, true, and beautiful in a particular way, in the way that such institutions can point to the importance of these realities and their understanding of them.”

Rosalinda:

If you want to know who is speaking out for what is true and good, read the Profiles on the Owoprotest site:
uwoprotest.com/profiles.php

I thank you’ll be proud of the people we’re working with. they’ve all put something on the line.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Rosalinda]

Traditional Ang, In fairness to Neil Brooks you quoted what I wrote he said not Dr. Brooks. I’m sorry for the confusion but I did not post the entire email using only one direct quote in my posting yesterday “last minute decision”. Nonetheless, he did indeed say “decision made several months ago” and “independent of any knowledge of UWO’s honorary degree recipients.”

The real problem though and what indeed was most disconcerting about your letter to Dr. Brooks was the unfair assumption he is pro-choice. While that may be your gut feeling there was no basis in fact and an apology- clear, brief and simple would be in order.

Did you ever hear about St. Anthony of the desert? He was known to be a very holy man living in a cave in continual prayer and fasting.The devil was tormenting him one day and said Anthony, you pray all day but I never sleep. Anthony, you fast all day but I never eat. But Anthony you are humble and against you I can do nothing.

So give Neil Brooks the benefit of a doubt. He may well be prolife and caught in difficult circumstances.
We don’t need to add any more fuel to the fire. We can express our concerns and offer our suggestions with courtesy and respect but we can’t leverage anyone to change their position. That will be a work of grace done by the Holy Spirit. We are only workers in the fields of the Lord planting seeds. It is the Lord who provides the rain and sunshine for these seeds to grow. Some seeds take a long time to germinate so be patient as your Father in heaven is patient.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Rosalinda:

We can express our concerns and offer our suggestions with courtesy and respect but we can’t leverage anyone to change their position.

The positions of some people are prone to leverage. The leverage is to get their positions into the light, into a place of community dialogue, so that they can be negotiated among Christians instead of decided in an arbitrary ‘top down’ way foreign to the democracies of Canada and the United States.

Rosalinda:
That will be a work of grace done by the Holy Spirit.

The change of heart or the deepening of faith is achieved by the Holy Spirit and the person involved. Let us also remember that some of us are not privy to all the deals which have been made under the cover of darkness. Even if some have been privy to such information, they may not be in a position to disclose it. Out of charity.

I think Trad Ang’s approach has been valid, particularly in a scenario in which Huron has been absolutely silent on a matter which intimately involves them and to which a huge segment of their Church has objected to the point of wishing to break away. Trad Ang has apologized swiftly and conditionally. It is now contingent on Huron to come forth and make an accounting.

Let us also remember that people have a choice in this matter. They can continue to protest directly against the Morgentaler award. This will probably not bear fruit. Or they can choose to appeal to the Christian teaching which applies to Kings and Huron. Far more likely to bear fruit, if not now then in the near future.

Some people are going to choose only one route. Others will choose both. I seriously object to any infighting between the two.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Huron College at UWO is Also Honoring a Pro-Abortion Writer.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=730347&postcount=25

Rosalinda:

Traditional Ang, In fairness to Neil Brooks you quoted what I wrote he said not Dr. Brooks. I’m sorry for the confusion but I did not post the entire email using only one direct quote in my posting yesterday “last minute decision”. Nonetheless, he did indeed say “decision made several months ago” and “independent of any knowledge of UWO’s honorary degree recipients.”

Rosalinda:

I don’t wish to argue this point, I’ve already offerred Dr. Brooks an apology, which he has neither accepted nor rejected.

I believe I did have factual basis for my assumptions - The Official positions of ECUSA, the Church of Canada and of most of the national Churches in the Anglican Communion, esp. in the prosperous West, are Pro-Abortion. from 1979-2000, that of ECUSA was the PP/NARAL position of Unlimited Access with no legal restrictions of any kind. I understand they’ve begun to reconsider and repudiate that, but they are still Pro-Abortion. The Anglican Church of Canada’s position has been Pro-Aborion with Limitations (I can discuss those if you wish). Given those positions and the fact that he was defending the decision to honor Ms. Barfoot at the Convocation, I thought it was a safe bet. I admit that I could have used clearer language that left him out of the loop (as in the revised letter), but it was the best I could do at 2 am.

And, as you saw, I’ve both apologized for it and asked Dr. Brooks what his actual position was since he never did say he was Pro-Life or Anti-Abortion. He just said he hadn’t made that public statement. As I said, he has neither accepted the apology nor clarified his position.

Rosalinda, I am trying to give him and all of the faculty and adminstration at Huron University College the benefit of the doubt, but could you please try to give me the same benefit of the doubt, esp. for things I do at 2 am when I can’t see straight and my typing skills get the better of my common sense?

Regarding the use of “leverage” - What do you think “Satyagraha”, the non-violent confrontation used by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and his people was? That was “Moral Leverage”! and, Are you saying that I shouldn’t warn the people at Huron University College about the foreseeable consequences of their actions?

On this, I know something you don’t. The Anglican Communion is nothing like the Catholic Church. If someone does something potentially disunifying in the Catholic Church, everyone “Goes to Rome” and gets an answer. That’s helped to keep the Church together for almost 2000 years.

The Anglican Communion has nothing like that - It’s a group of national churches with a common heritage in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury and with each other. Right now, ECUSA is in “Impaired Communion” with most of the Bishops and Primates of the Global South, and the Archbishop of Canterbury really doesn’t know what to do. in 2009, if nothing is done, that rupture will become permanent, and “Impaired Communion” will become “NO Communion”, and the rest of the national churches of the Anglican Communion will have to join the Global South, or risk “Impaired Communion” with the Global South themselves.

One of the national churches having problems with this is the Anglican Church of Canada. The Global South is already uncomfortable with several practices of the Church of Canada, including its support for Abortion Rights (Limited, first 3 months and then under some conditions).

If Ms. Barfoot speeks at this Convocation at THE ANGLICAN COLLEGE and DIVINITY SCHOOL of the Church of Canada promoting Abortion Rights and “Trashing” the people who protested the Morgantaler decision, It just might force the Global South to place the Anglican Church of Canada (which is already on probation and in hot water) in “Impaired Communion”!

What that means is that most Canadian Anglicans won’t be able to receive the Sacraments of their Church OUTSIDE of a few countries in the Northern hemisphere! That may also cause many congregations to leave the church, which means they’ll lose their property, their vestments and sacred objects, and their priests and deacons will lose their saleries and their pensions.

I think those are serious consequences and deserve some mention. Don’t you?

Rosalinda, that’s why I’m warning them. I hope you can understand the severity of the situation we’re all looking at.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Brothers and Sisters, these two letters should tell you what it’s like at Huron:

Re: Huron Letters addressed to William VanDoodewaard

Michael,

Thank you for your e-mail. My husband is the one who tends to pick up the mail from this address, but I have seen what you sent.

I do not plan to attend my convocation at Huron, which takes place this morning. Even if Barfoot were not speaking, Huron’s lack of protest and action against Dr. Davenport’s decision to honour Morgentaler would keep me from going. The results of your efforts to prevent Barfoot from speaking are what I expected; at Huron we have a professor who openly speaks with students, telling them to “use” pornography and offering his own sources to help them in this. Dr. Lumpkin encourages this, so having a pro-abortionist speak at convocation is really just the next step.

It is interesting that you heard that we are Anglican - many other people “have heard” we are Roman Catholic. We are, in fact, Presbyterian (ARP). Had we been living in London in the 1830’s and 40’s, we probably would have been Anglicans; Bishop Cronyn, who started this diocese and Huron College, was Evangelical and godly. Today, though, the diocese is about as liberal as anything else; the cathedral downtown reads from extra-canonical “texts” during Sunday worship, has no problem with homosexuality, priests in other congregations do not believe in the insiration or infalibility of Scripture, much less its authority, are divorced, etc. Where we worship weekly, we do hear Scripture expounded and the Gospel proclaimed.

thanks again.

Rebecca VanDoodewaard

Rebecca VanDoodewaard is a fourth year combined honours History and English student at Huron University College, UWO. A recipient of several academic awards, she serves the college as a Cultural Liaison Manager in the International Student programme. Despite the offer of a Graduate Research Scholarship and Teaching Assistanceship in Western’s MA History program, Rebecca will be declining the acceptance and pursuing her graduate studies elsewhere. “As an expectant mother looking forward to the delivery of my child, Western’s current stand means that I cannot take part in my own convocation, knowing it is associated with the honouring of Dr. Morgentaler, whose profession is to kill children in the womb.” Her husband, William, also a Western graduate (BA '96), is about to begin a PhD in conjunction with the UHI Millenium Institute and the University of Aberdeen. He is a media and communications officer for Western Alumni Against Honouring Morgentaler.

uwoprotest.com/profiles.php

Re: Huron Letters addressed to William VanDoodewaard

Dear Micheal,

We’ve received your fwded emails and greatly appreciate the work you are doing in regard to Huron College, which is also home to the Huron Divinity School. We have requested Bishop Howe some weeks ago to make a public statement on the honouring of Morgentaler by Western (which Huron is part of) but no response. There is much about Huron which indicates that it is not remotely a Christian/Anglican college, and ought not bear that name; the current situation is simply an expression of this reality. We believe this matter should be articulately and fully be brought to the attention of the global south of the Anglican Church, particularly to men such as the Bishop in Nigeria whom you mentioned. Do you have contact information for him? I would be happy in the next week or so to write him a letter of concern regarding the state of things here in London and Canada, where certainly much of the “Anglican” church is a false church by its unrepentant pursuit of and promotion of evil.

My wife, Rebecca and I are evangelical Presbyterians, members of the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church; hence we are not Anglicans, though we do certainly see evangelical, biblical Anglicans as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Sincerely yours,

William VanDoodewaard

Willaim and Rebecca operate as a team and have one entry to the Owoprotest Website.

They’ve both lived in the situation, and they’ve decided they can’t do it any more. They belong to one of the few believing Presbyterian denominations out there. I kind of wish they were Catholics, but we can’t have everything.

They deserve our thanks for the Yoeman’s work they’ve done and for staying those last few weeks when they could easily have gone to William’s grad school.

The Convocation was this morning - We ran out of time.

May God richly bless them and give them a healthy and happy new baby.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Meanwhile - This in the London Free Press:

Local writer set to receive top honour from Huron
The challenges faced by graduates is compared to novelist’s stories.

Sandra Coulson, Lifestyles Reporter
The London Free Press

*London writer Joan Barfoot’s success as a novelist and ability to depict characters as they grow through crisis have earned her a medal of distinction from Huron University College.
The honour will be granted on Tuesday as part of the University of Western Ontario’s spring convocation.

Huron principal Ramona Lumpkin said the medal selection committee has a high regard for Barfoot as a writer and is proud she is from London.

“And we want to have an opportunity for our students as graduates from Huron to see someone who embodies the kind of thing our curriculum embodies: a focus on literacy, breadth of understanding, intelligence, compassion and communication.”

Neil Brooks, chairperson of Huron’s department of English, sees similarities between the growth of Barfoot’s characters and the challenges facing new graduates. “The characters find knowledge, strength, and fulfilment through moving beyond the restraints of conformity and custom.”

This is the first such honour for Barfoot, who will give an address to the graduates.

“I was startled, surprised, and of course this is a pretty high-profile week,” Barfoot said, referring to Western’s granting of an honorary degree to Henry Morgentaler later in the week.

The Morgentaler decision will enter into her comments to students, Barfoot said.

“I want to talk about . . . intelligent curiosity, respectful debate, a multitude of perspectives, a bit about Morgentaler and the importance of that discussion.”*

fyilondon.com/books/

I’ll post the remarks as soon as I find them.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones, michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Ani Ibi:
The positions of some people are prone to leverage. The leverage is to get their positions into the light, into a place of community dialogue, so that they can be negotiated among Christians instead of decided in an arbitrary ‘top down’ way foreign to the democracies of Canada and the United States.

The change of heart or the deepening of faith is achieved by the Holy Spirit and the person involved. Let us also remember that some of us are not privy to all the deals which have been made under the cover of darkness. Even if some have been privy to such information, they may not be in a position to disclose it. Out of charity.

I think Trad Ang’s approach has been valid, particularly in a scenario in which Huron has been absolutely silent on a matter which intimately involves them and to which a huge segment of their Church has objected to the point of wishing to break away. Trad Ang has apologized swiftly and conditionally. It is now contingent on Huron to come forth and make an accounting.

Let us also remember that people have a choice in this matter. They can continue to protest directly against the Morgentaler award. This will probably not bear fruit. Or they can choose to appeal to the Christian teaching which applies to Kings and Huron. Far more likely to bear fruit, if not now then in the near future.

Some people are going to choose only one route. Others will choose both. I seriously object to any infighting between the two.

Ani:

Thank you.

The article I just posted causes me to wonder me why the Good Dr. demanded the apology, because it does seem that, unless he comes up with something that strongly disagrees with the evidence, that he agrees with the Pro-Abortion position.

In other words, demanding the apology just might have been a debate trick. And, looking at the reaction of some here who saw the demand, it worked.

It’s why, I think, the situation and the public actions and statements that are on the record have to matter, and why those of us who are Pro-Life can’t be sucked in by Evil’s Empty Promises Like Dr. Killan was. That’s why we can’t be seen to accomodate the Evil and not to allow it to go unremarked as Fr. Malloy sadly did:

Friendship, Service and Courage

]*By Jim Anderson *

Friendship, generous service and moral courage were three major themes delivered to graduates of Brescia, Huron and King’s University Colleges by University of Notre Dame President Rev. Edward A. Malloy, at Western’s Convocation Tuesday afternoon.

“Friendship is so essential,” said Malloy. “College years so often are a time of fruitful friendships.”

Malloy also urged the graduates to cultivate lifetime habits of service and to help others.

A third touchstone in his speech was moral courage and integrity and he noted the important message of the movie Hotel Rwanda. “It is an important thing to see what good can come from a person of moral integrity.” He cited the Enron scandal as an example of what happens when people stay silent.

“Whatever your work or profession, at some point you will be called to stand apart from the crowd to do the right thing for the right reason,” Malloy told the graduates.

In introducing Malloy, King’s Professor Emeritus John Snyder noted that during his Notre Dame presidency Malloy “was a vigorous defender of academic freedom within contemporary Catholic universities” and also a national leader in discussions about implementing the papal document on Catholic higher education, Ex Corde Ecclesiae.

communications.uwo.ca/western_news/story.html?listing_id=18828

Western’s story seems deliberately VAGUE. I’ll see what else I can find.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Schedule for Fr. Malloy’s Festivities:

Media Advisory - President of the University of Notre Dame to deliver homily at King’s Baccalaureate Mass

LONDON, ON, June 13 /CNW/ - Father Edward A. Malloy, CSC, President of the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana will deliver the homily at the Baccalaureate Mass on Tuesday, June 14th prior to the convocation ceremonies at Alumni Hall at The University of Western Ontario. Father Malloy will be the recipient of an honorary doctorate as the students of the affiliated colleges receive their degrees.

Father Michael Bechard, Chaplain of King's University College will be presiding at the Mass. Father Bechard is a graduate of both King's and Notre Dame.

For further information: Mary McLaughlin at (519) 439-1140

newswire.ca/fr/releases/archive/June2005/13/c1153.html

I’m looking for Remarks for both Fr. Malloy and Ms. Barfoot.

Anyone who finds them, please post them.

Thank you.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Traditional Ang:

The article I just posted causes me to wonder me why the Good Dr. demanded the apology, because it does seem that, unless he comes up with something that strongly disagrees with the evidence, that he agrees with the Pro-Abortion position.

I think the criticism of your letter was of the ‘robustness’ of it. However, I must point out firmly that the failure of Huron to make its position clear – its stonewalling, if you will – and its backroom jockeying for position is also ‘robust.’ Both Huron and Kings seemed to have appealed to a theory concerning ‘their hurt feelings.’ What about the hurt feelings of those depending on them for Christian leadership and who have been let down hard? What about the schoolchildren with black armbands?

The folks at Huron and Kings are academics. Certainly an ambiance of ‘friendship’ is foundational for academic debate. This springs up from the Symposium and also from the Christian Gospels in the friendship of Jesus. However academics are trained for a certain amount of ‘robustness’ in the interest of apprehending the truth. I find the responses of Kings and Hurons to disingenuous to say the least, and most likely flatly irresponsible. They have no business appealing to the ‘hurt feelings’ ploy: pot, kettle, mote, log!
Traditional Ang:

It’s why, I think, the situation and the public actions and statements that are on the record have to matter

They do matter. Even yesterday William caught Dr Killan misrepresenting the relationship between Catholic colleges and secular universities. The Catholic colleges are not obliged either financially or legally to remain affiliated with secular universities. Examples of independent religious colleges are numerous.

Because of the work of many faithful Christians (and Jews by the way), public actions and statements are now a matter of public record. This story is not over. The truth is trickling through the Church at high levels now. Very high levels.

One thing to consider is demographics. I do not have the stats. Some say that London has many Catholics. Certainly William would not have started the petition if he was not already certain of the existence of a strong pro-life presence in London. Judy Rebick and Jack Layton badly underestimated this presence and have made major political mistakes because of it.

Rebick claims that over 100 people showed up to hear her speak at the NDP screening of the Morgentaler film a week ago. Nonsense! Barely 25 showed up. That is why she published a statement on her hate-site last week. And no, I am not backing off claiming her website promotes hatred.

Several threads are worse than any Jack Chick tract that people on this board have encountered. CA posters have said as much to me and have therefore refused to enter into debate on rabble.ca, comparing it to a ‘toilet.’ As soon as the posts reach about 125 or so, the editor locks them down: locked but loaded, because the hate comments have not been pulled and the authors have not been banned.

Notwithstanding that Catholics may abound in London, how many are observant, orthodox Catholics is not known. The demographics have changed. Hence Bishop Fabbro is reorganizing the diocese. Do I think this is a good reason to be lenient with Dr Killan? No. It is a good reason to be tough with him, but there is another very vital consideration at Bishop Fabbro’s table.

The Catholic colleges are absolutely riddled with heterodox professors. An example is up here in Toronto. The School of Theology is comprised of St Michael’s (undergraduate), Regis (graduate), and St Augustine Seminary: all within U of T. Countless times St Augustine has been on the brink of disaffiliating from the School. Why? Here is an insight: a person down the street from me was attending Regis. She abandonned her entire graduate program because one of her profs was teaching that the Virgin Mary was not a virgin.

Academic freedom has been defined specifically in Ex Corde Ecclesiae. Pope John Paul II (I miss him) defined it. We don’t need to redefine it. The colleges are all over the place: everywhere but within the Church. However, getting tough about that at this late stage of the game would only result in dismantling the colleges themselves. That would be a disaster. Bishop Fabbro is wise in being cautious about stirring up the viper’s nest. It will take time to make the Catholic colleges Catholic again.

I think William is right. Disaffiliation seems like the next logical step. It might also be a good idea to have a Canadian Cardinal Newman Society. But what would really turn this puppy around is the creation of the Centre for Studies in the Culture of Life. Apparently Kings didn’t want it. Too late now for Dr Killan and for Rev Malloy, because another college is going to get it.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

“Friendship is so essential,” said Malloy. “College years so often are a time of fruitful friendships.”

Friendship, not nepotism.
Traditional Ang:

A third touchstone in his speech was moral courage and integrity and he noted the important message of the movie Hotel Rwanda. “It is an important thing to see what good can come from a person of moral integrity.”

I will wait to see the full transcript of his speech before I allow the blood to rush to my head. Lt Gen Romeo Dallaire has been badly omitted from American commentary on Rwanda. (By American commentary, I mean most pointedly Oprah Winfrey’s recent sudden discovery of a genocide which now is close to 4M dead and decades in duration. Where was Dallaire in her analysis? Nowhere. Considering he and his collegues paid an extremely high price for their moral courage, I have stopped watching Winfrey’s show.) That is the subject of another thread.

“Whatever your work or profession, at some point you will be called to stand apart from the crowd to do the right thing for the right reason,” Malloy told the graduates.

Like Dr Killan? :ehh:
Traditional Ang:

In introducing Malloy, King’s Professor Emeritus John Snyder noted that during his Notre Dame presidency Malloy “was a vigorous defender of academic freedom within contemporary Catholic universities”

So vigorous that he got Notre Dame in hot water several times with the Cardinal Newman Society. :yawn:
Traditional Ang:

and also a national leader in discussions about implementing the papal document on Catholic higher education, Ex Corde Ecclesiae.

Bishop D’Arcy deserves the credit for that.

 

[Rosalinda]

Traditional Ang,
The bottom line is Dr. Neil Brooks nailed you for an illegitimate quotation "what you choose to refer to as ‘A Woman’s Right to Choose’ " That was all you needed to apologize for.

No one likes to have words put in their mouth and we have a responsibility to measure our words carefully and to respect proper norms of public debate irrespective of which side we are on.

While Dr. Brooks response was pharisaic and if indeed he is pro-abortion, as you yourself confessed was an assumption, than it is Our Lord who sees and knows all hearts who will have a few choice words for him -Mt. 23:25-36.

All the rest of it, was beside the point. He is an academic, subsequently style, at least in this instance, seems more important to him rather than content. Whereas, you made an honest mistake he is the one who wasn’t gracious enough to let it pass.
Meanwhile, we both will pay more attention to details in future. Don’t forget, I wrongly assumed it was “a last minute decision” to award Joan Barfoot whereas it was a carefully planned ruse.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

ANI:

HIS WILL HAVE TO DO FOR BOTH POSTS - The Previous Post and this One. I assume by “Robustness”, you meant that I confronted Dr. Brooks with the truth of what he was doing and he didn’t like it very much, if at all.

I’m sorry, the Truth hurts, and Dr. Brooks chose to ignore the consequences of something he seems to have had a hand in deciding until he was confronted with those consequences in black and white. I’ve now created a situation where he can’t say, “I didn’t know,” when everything comes apart, and that must really irritate him.

NO ONE likes to be knocked out of his denial, esp. when it’s as necessary as this was to doing the deed.
Ani Ibi:

Friendship, not nepotism.

I will wait to see the full transcript of his speech before I allow the blood to rush to my head. Lt Gen Romeo Dallaire has been badly omitted from American commentary on Rwanda. (By American commentary, I mean most pointedly Oprah Winfrey’s recent sudden discovery of a genocide which now is close to 4M dead and decades in duration. Where was Dallaire in her analysis? Nowhere. Considering he and his collegues paid an extremely high price for their moral courage, I have stopped watching Winfrey’s show.) That is the subject of another thread.

Like Dr Killan? :ehh:

So vigorous that he got Notre Dame in hot water several times with the Cardinal Newman Society. :yawn:

Bishop D’Arcy deserves the credit for that.

Lt. Gen. Romeo Dallaire got a raw deal all around. I shudder to think that but for him and the harrassed, overworked and underequipped Canadians, the situation in Rwanda would have been worse.

I was amazed when Oprah and friends found out about Rwanda and what details somehow got left out. In a way, given their proclivities, it’s predictable.

I don’t watch Oprah’s show either.

I know what you’re saying about Notre Dame. I have to admit that Notre Dame had become largely secularized and heterodox before he got there, and that Fr. Malloy probably felt overwhelmed when he looked at the extent of that, exp. at first.

The University of San Francisco solved its problems by kicking the truly orthodox St. Ignatius Institute and its Director, Fr. Joseph Fessio, out, in spite of the objections (they weren’t very strenuous) of the Archbishop of San Francisco.

If the University is in the same state as it was then, I think it may have to be delisted. The new Prefect is more familiar with the situation than I am.

May God richly bless you. Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Rosalinda:

Traditional Ang,
The bottom line is Dr. Neil Brooks nailed you for an illegitimate quotation "what you choose to refer to as ‘A Woman’s Right to Choose’ " That was all you needed to apologize for.

No one likes to have words put in their mouth and we have a responsibility to measure our words carefully and to respect proper norms of public debate irrespective of which side we are on.

While Dr. Brooks response was pharisaic and if indeed he is pro-abortion, as you yourself confessed was an assumption, than it is Our Lord who sees and knows all hearts who will have a few choice words for him -Mt. 23:25-36.

All the rest of it, was beside the point. He is an academic, subsequently style, at least in this instance, seems more important to him rather than content. Whereas, you made an honest mistake he is the one who wasn’t gracious enough to let it pass.
Meanwhile, we both will pay more attention to details in future. Don’t forget, I wrongly assumed it was “a last minute decision” to award Joan Barfoot whereas it was a carefully planned ruse.

Rosalinda:

Here is something I found that might be of interest:

**The Bias Of The Law Commission Of Canada Marriage Takes A Beating

Law Commission Webcast**

The LCC held a webcast on January 31, consisting of a panel discussion with e-mail participation. The webcast moderator was newscaster Francine Pelletier. Members of the panel were Nathalie Des Rosiers, President of the Law Commission of Canada, Neil Brooks of Osgoode Hall Law School, Nicole LaViolette of the University of Ottawa’s Law Faculty, and Monica Townson, a well known feminist economist. The panel discussed whether the conjugal relationship is to remain as the basis of Canada’s social policies. Their bias against traditional marriage was obvious.

Neil Brooks wants to put fostering, caring relationships first and “just set aside these notions of being married or conjugal relationships or whatever” in dealing with subsidies or benefits. To view the unpaid work of mothering and care for elderly family members, as a private obligation is “profoundly wrong;” it is, rather, a “social responsibility that we all have.” He stated that "conjugal is totally irrelevant… we have to structure our tax and transfer systems to encourage both parents to assume the obligation of care-giving.

If you’re not careful you will build in programs that simply reinforce the traditional role of women as care-givers and I think that’s profoundly wrong!" When asked how he would do that, he stated: “I would just make men stay at home!” Other panelists responded with uproarious laughter.

realwomenca.com/newsletter/2001_Mar_April/article_4.html

We still don’t know what Dr. Brooks position on Abortion is, but it would seem that we have his position on MARRAIGE!

Given that position, I probably was stating Dr. Brooks’ postion on Abortion accuratey and NOT “Putting words in his mouth”, since the words seem to have accurately represented his postion.

I’m really too tired to find the confirming link tonight, so this link on a related matter will have to do.

Goodnight.

Blessed are they who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Traditional Ang:

I assume by “Robustness”, you meant that I confronted Dr. Brooks with the truth of what he was doing and he didn’t like it very much, if at all.

Robust debate uses rhetorical devices such as ridiculo ad absurdum, hyperbole, jockeying for position, with holding responses, and so on as well as straight logic and appeal to authority. It is rougher than a dispassionate exchange of ideas. It allows for soaring passions.

What I am saying is that Brooks and Killan were already using ‘robust’ approaches to the encounter. Their ‘hurt feelings’ were just another robust offering among many: a false appeal for sympathy, a false portrayal of themselves as victims. Sincere people engage in dialogue, particularly if they are teachers.

The observation which several have made now re Family Compact is right on the money. There is quite a bit of elitism involved in these colleges.
Traditional Ang:

I’ve now created a situation where he can’t say, “I didn’t know,” when everything comes apart, and that must really irritate him.

That is correct. Often a journalist will make a false statement in an interview to lead out the person being interviewed. It’s a fishing expedition. When someone whose responsibility it was to make a clear statement then makes no statement, then his position is fair game.

You apologized conditionally. The ball is in his court.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I meant reductio ad absurdum not ridiculo ad absurdum. Lack of sleep. D-oh!

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Ani Ibi:

I meant reductio ad absurdum not ridiculo ad absurdum. Lack of sleep. D-oh!

Ani:
I have received good news today via e-mail from David Virtue of Virtue Online. ***I will use this in next digest
thanks

david***

I’ve just forwarded this to our friends in Canada. I’m sure they will appreciate the good news, as this means the Bishops and Primates in the Global South will now be INFORMED, if they haven’t been already!

Apparently the hot water the Church of Canada was in was only slightly less hot than the boiling water ECUSA managed to get itself into.

If you have any friends who are Anglicans, you might want to let them kinow that you’re available and that the Catholic Church isn’t as hard to get into as they might think. If they’re not ready for that, but can’t deal with all the garbage in the Church of Canada, you can also give them the information from the TAC, or ask me and I’ll give it to you.

Blessed are they who act to save the lives of God’s Little Ones. Michael