Hurrah! Plenary Indulgence at Death for any rightly disposed Christian (that prayed regularly)? - what about attachment to venial sins?

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IwishIknew

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Hello - I came across something that sounds too good to be true, but seems to be so - can anyone validate the following from Wikipedia which draws from Concessiones 12 in the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum.
vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_doc_20020826_enchiridion-indulgentiarum_lt.html
Of particular significance is the plenary indulgence attached to the Apostolic Blessing that a priest is to impart when giving the sacraments to a person in danger of death, and which, if no priest is available, the Church grants to any rightly disposed Christian at the moment of death, on condition that that person was accustomed to say some prayers during life. In this case the Church itself makes up for the three conditions normally required for a plenary indulgence: sacramental confession, Eucharistic communion and prayer for the Pope’s intentions.
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Translating this into a real-world example, I’m assuming the Plenary Indulgence applies to anyone baptized Christian that had some regular prayer time in their lifetime (i.e. as a child), considers themselves a “Christian Disciple” and strives to avoid grave sin and is remorseful when he/she knows of sin committed. Would you concur?

Does the person still have to be detached from all venial sin per the instructions here:
A plenary indulgence can be gained only once a day. In order to obtain it, the faithful must, in addition to being in the state of grace:
— have the interior disposition of complete detachment from sin, even venial sin…
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vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_pro_20000129_indulgence_en.html
 
For the indulgence to be plenary, I believe one would still have to be free of all attachment to venial sin at that particular moment (the moment of death). Obviously one would also have to be in a state of grace (either you haven’t mortally sinned since your last confession or you were given the grace to make a perfect act of contrition). If you were not completely free of attachment to venial sin, I imagine it would be a partial indulgence to whatever degree God deems fit.
 
I’ve asked about this Apostolic Pardon for Catholics countless times. Seems to be a well kept secret in our Church :p, as I never heard about it until a few years ago. It is a ticket to Heaven. You by-pass Purgatory all together. 👍

Maybe some one knowledgeable about it can tell us more?
 
Lormar said:
I’ve asked about this Apostolic Pardon for Catholics countless times. Seems to be a well kept secret in our Church :p, as I never heard about it until a few years ago. It is a ticket to Heaven. You by-pass Purgatory all together. 👍

Maybe some one knowledgeable about it can tell us more?
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Yes, I thought it was strange I had never heard of it either - though I knew about the one with the Last Rights (but only if available). It seems to be fairly new with Pope John Paul II if I understood correctly. Also, the term “Christian” is used instead of Catholic - so hoping this might even apply to our Protestant brothers and sisters. The one caveat still might be “attachment to venial sin” (example: a sinful addiction to too much TV, perhaps?).
 
Seems to me that a safe passage to Heaven with by-passing Purgatory isn’t as difficult as one might imagine. I often wonder that at the moment of death, our attachments to sin may fall away as we see Our Lady or Christ himself. An active prayer life goes a long way towards helping us being well disposed when the moment of death arrives for us all.
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
Seems to me that a safe passage to Heaven with by-passing Purgatory isn’t as difficult as one might imagine. I often wonder that at the moment of death, our attachments to sin may fall away as we see Our Lady or Christ himself. An active prayer life goes a long way towards helping us being well disposed when the moment of death arrives for us all.
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I happen to agree with you. St. Therese of Lisieux said as much herself when she told one of her Carmelite nuns who was arguing with her about Our Lord being more just than merciful: Sister, if you expect the justice of Christ, that is what you will get.

In other words, trust more in His Mercy. That’s not to say we presume on it all the while committing as many sinful acts as we possibly can. No. That’s not it at all. But Our Lord knows what no one else can or could ever know - our hearts and all that goes into making us who we are.

We can certainly pray every day to go straight to Heaven, and then do our part to attain it, all the while trusting in His “gracious mercy.” (A most beautiful phrase I heard in one of the Sunday Mass prayers a couple of weeks ago.) 👍
 
This Apostolic Pardon is just great news for any repentant Christian who strives to be Christ’s disciple and who might fear being caught off-guard by a death.

This is especially true where the value of a Priest is not known (as in the case with most Christ-loving Protestants) and/or when a Priest cannot attend to administer the Anointing of the Sick.

The requirement for detachment to all venial sins does not seem to be addressed - it may, thus, still stand, but at least each good-hearted disciple can approach death hoping with yet greater confidence that temporal punishment for one’s errors has been mercifully paid for.
 
IwishIknew said:
The requirement for detachment to all venial sins does not seem to be addressed - it may, thus, still stand, but at least each good-hearted disciple can approach death hoping with yet greater confidence that temporal punishment for one’s errors has been mercifully paid for.
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The requirement for detachment does not apply - see the EWTN link in my previous post.
 
ProVobis said:
Let’s remember that the living can also gain indulgences for the dead. So it helps to have lots of friends pray for you after you pass. 😉
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Amen to that. I was told years ago that a good practice was to pray for souls in Purgatory who had no one to pray for them, for when they got to Heaven they would be able to pray for you.
 
IwishIknew said:
Hello - I came across something that sounds too good to be true, but seems to be so - can anyone validate the following from Wikipedia which draws from Concessiones 12 in the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum.
vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_doc_20020826_enchiridion-indulgentiarum_lt.html

Translating this into a real-world example, I’m assuming the Plenary Indulgence applies to anyone baptized Christian that had some regular prayer time in their lifetime (i.e. as a child), considers themselves a “Christian Disciple” and strives to avoid grave sin and is remorseful when he/she knows of sin committed. Would you concur?

Does the person still have to be detached from all venial sin per the instructions here:

vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_pro_20000129_indulgence_en.html
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If you don’t have complete detachment you still get a partial indulgence
 
TheDoctor said:
The requirement for detachment does not apply - see the EWTN link in my previous post.
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I read through the link here but didn’t see any mention of the detachment to venial sins: ewtn.com/vexperts/showmes…?number=520698

It does mention the following
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EWTN:
“…the three usual conditions required in order to gain a plenary indulgence are substituted for by the condition 'provided they regularly prayed in some way.”
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But I believe there are 4 conditions. I was thinking the three conditions referred to must be #2-4 below because they refer to acts where the first condition is more of a disposition (not an act).
Vatican:
A plenary indulgence can be gained only once a day. In order to obtain it, the faithful must, in addition to being in the state of grace:
  1. have the interior disposition of complete detachment from sin, even venial sin;
  2. have sacramentally confessed their sins;
  3. receive the Holy Eucharist (it is certainly better to receive it while participating in Holy Mass, but for the indulgence only Holy Communion is required);
  4. pray for the intentions of the Supreme Pontiff.
    vatican.va/roman_curia/tribunals/apost_penit/documents/rc_trib_appen_pro_20000129_indulgence_en.html
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Thoughts?
 
This seems a bit too good to be true. I’ve read many lives of the saints, and they sometimes speak about friends of theirs who appeared after death, saying they are still in Purgatory, and pleading for prayer. In her diary, St. Faustina mentions one such incident of a nun she knew appearing to her after death and asking her for a sacrifice so that she would be released from Purgatory. Surely a nun would have been a rightly disposed Christian who prayed regularly!

I do know that you have to be absolutely perfect to enter heaven. For one thing, the Bible says so (Revelation 21:27). Secondly, heaven is surely perfect, and if anything imperfect were introduced into it, heaven would no longer be perfect.

Can God grant a plenary indulgence to whomever He pleases? Of course. But I wouldn’t bank on that automatically happening.
 
IWish, why don’t you just ask a trusted and faithful priest at this point instead of a group of arm chair experts? 😃
 
Lormar said:
IWish, why don’t you just ask a trusted and faithful priest at this point instead of a group of arm chair experts? 😃
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Thank you for the suggestion - good idea, would anyone know of forums regularly monitored by canon lawyers (who respond to all - or at least most - questions posted)?

I like the forum format because it helps encourage discussion on all the various nuances of a question such as this. This may be one of those topics that the Church has left “open to discussion” - so one priest might have a different perspective than another.
 
Kay_Cee said:
St. Faustina mentions one such incident of a nun she knew appearing to her after death and asking her for a sacrifice so that she would be released from Purgatory. Surely a nun would have been a rightly disposed Christian who prayed regularly!
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Good point - thinking… maybe the nun wasn’t detached (from some addiction to) from some venial sin… or maybe the pardon hadn’t been rolled out by the time of her death.

Not sure - but at any rate since this is a true story: Eternal Rest grant unto her Oh Lord.
 
Kay_Cee said:
This seems a bit too good to be true. I’ve read many lives of the saints, and they sometimes speak about friends of theirs who appeared after death, saying they are still in Purgatory, and pleading for prayer. In her diary, St. Faustina mentions one such incident of a nun she knew appearing to her after death and asking her for a sacrifice so that she would be released from Purgatory. Surely a nun would have been a rightly disposed Christian who prayed regularly!..
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The nun in question may not have been rightly disposed. No one knows the state of a soul as God does. Not meaning to equate this nun to the Pharisees, but the Pharisees were good at appearing holy and praying in public, but their prayers were wanting. The nun may have been guilty of appearing holy and not really praying with her heart…but only the nun and God know why she was in need of further purification.
 
IwishIknew said:
Thank you for the suggestion - good idea, would anyone know of forums regularly monitored by canon lawyers (who respond to all - or at least most - questions posted)?

I like the forum format because it helps encourage discussion on all the various nuances of a question such as this. This may be one of those topics that the Church has left “open to discussion” - so one priest might have a different perspective than another.
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Why don’t you call Catholic Answers Live when they have a priest guest? Just click on “Radio” at the top of the page and then look for their calendar to see when a priest will be on. If you don’t have Catholic radio in your area, you can listen to the show live here. In any event, you can still call in and get your answer.

Fr. Vincent Serpa, who is a Dominican priest, is here on the forum as well. Send him a private message if you want.

I doubt very much if such a serious matter as this is open for discussion. There’s an answer. You just have to ask the right priest. 👍
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
The nun in question may not have been rightly disposed. No one knows the state of a soul as God does. Not meaning to equate this nun to the Pharisees, but the Pharisees were good at appearing holy and praying in public, but their prayers were wanting. The nun may have been guilty of appearing holy and not really praying with her heart…but only the nun and God know why she was in need of further purification.
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Well, all that’s true, but she must not have been in too terrible of a condition if all she needed was one sacrifice (which, as I recall was one day of fasting) to get her out of Purgatory.

I have the 2006 Manuel of Indulgences, and I think what the OP is referring to is this: “If a priest is unavailable, Holy Mother Church benevolently grants to the Christian faithful, who are*** duly*** disposed, a plenary indulgence to be acquired at the point of death, provided they have been in the habit of reciting some prayers during their lifetime; in such a case, the Church supplies for the three conditions ordinarily required for a plenary indulgence.” (bolding and italics mine)

So it’s duly disposed, not rightly disposed.

But what, exactly, is duly disposed? The book doesn’t say.
 
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