Husband and female friends?

[Petaro]

I am curious though if you had strong, non-sexual relationships with women though? I know if my closest friends that I’ve known for years suddenly dumped me because his wife was uncomfortable I’d feel deeply betrayed, as much as if I had a brother who suddenly wouldn’t see me anymore. I’d strongly advise him against marrying any woman who would see relationships like that as a threat - because I think if you have a real friendship you are doing a wrong to your friend to just dump them for no other crime than their sex.

But if you do marry such a woman, as her husband you have a duty to make her safe, both bodily and mentally. You are right in that you may be doing a wrong to a friend, but your wife has the supreme relationship with you and if loyalty to a friend goes before your loyalty to your wife, you do not recognise the reality of the marriage vows.
I believe such a realisation does not come immediately for a lot of men as soon as they are married. It didn’t for me to my eventual own detriment. It may be the case for this latin lover, so used to playing the game.
If jealousy raises its ugly head, close discussions between the partners to a marriage is advisable with agreed protocols set and abided by. A lot of men want to avoid the issue knowing or convincing themselves that there is nothing untoward in the friendship. But in reality he lost that right to decide when he gave himself to his wife.
If your wife is uncomfortable with a friendship, it is your duty as a husband to put her feelings before your own. She has property rights over your body. Sounds primeval but we are dealing with the most basic of emotions here and must be guided by our God in setting the parameters of a Christian marriage.

 

[DarkLight]

But if you do marry such a woman, as her husband you have a duty to make her safe, both bodily and mentally. You are right in that you may be doing a wrong to a friend, but your wife has the supreme relationship with you and if loyalty to a friend goes before your loyalty to your wife, you do not recognise the reality of the marriage vows.
I believe such a realisation does not come immediately for a lot of men as soon as they are married. It didn’t for me to my eventual own detriment. It may be the case for this latin lover, so used to playing the game.
If jealousy raises its ugly head, close discussions between the partners to a marriage is advisable with agreed protocols set and abided by. A lot of men want to avoid the issue knowing or convincing themselves that there is nothing untoward in the friendship. But in reality he lost that right to decide when he gave himself to his wife.
If your wife is uncomfortable with a friendship, it is your duty as a husband to put her feelings before your own. She has property rights over your body. Sounds primeval but we are dealing with the most basic of emotions here and must be guided by our God in setting the parameters of a Christian marriage.

Any man who demanded I get rid of my male friends I would get rid of, unless he had a very good reason about that specific relationship. It’s not about “loyalty” to this person or that person, it’s about doing what is right. If you allow your spouse to force you to betray your friend you are sinning, and if you think of it in terms of “loyalty” all you have done is put them over doing what is right. The simple truth is your spouse would be commanding you to hurt someone else who had done nothing wrong. It is no more right or loyal than if they required you to physically strike the person so they would feel better.

 

[DarkLight]

Think about it from the perspective of someone like me. Persistently single, no real relationship with my family, and dealing with SSA (which means just being friends with women hardly helps).

Would you want to live in a world where all your relationships are “lesser”, or become so when your friends marry? What does it say when the comfort of a spouse is all it takes to tear the closest people you’ve ever had away from you, no matter what you’ve done? What does it say to be in a world where no one can be truly loyal to you, truly love you, without being accused of failing at their marriage? Truly single life would be the most terrible curse if that were true!

 

[newcatholicwife]

As a Catholic husband I have had two friends who worried my wife. One was an old girl friend who had not got over me and resents that I married so soon after she broke off our relationship as I moved cities and she did not want to follow. The other was an old Uni friend who was married herself. I used to play pool with her husband and we would socialize together. One New Year’s party she got drunk and admitted to me that she had never gotten over me and had loved me in her heart all her life.
My wife is no fool and could see the true feelings of these other two old friends.
I selfishly did not want to lose the friendship of my old Uni friend as I had had no real romantic attachment to her on my side, and thus felt justified to continue the friendship between what I saw as two couples.
My wife has the absolute right, and I mean absolute right to order me as her husband to break off all contact with these women or any other woman she dislikes. I have no option because of my vows but to obey her in this demand.I have the same right with her old boyfriend and trust them when they have lunch together. I actually feel sorry for him for losing such a treasure as my girl. What an idiot!
She trusts me but doesn’t trust the other women. So she asked me not to ring one of them at all, and to have as little to do with the one who lives in the same city as possible.
So, my old girl friend rings me constantly and I feel sorry for her loneliness, as does my wife. So with that compassion she allows the friendship to continue. The other woman unfortunately could not contain her loss and killed herself and her husband. I have not forgiven myself, but have a feeling my wife was relieved, but went to the funeral with me.
I should have cut all contact before it got out of hand on her side.
You have the right to order your husband to cut off the friendship and I would do so before it gets out of hand. I found it flattering to have the attention of these women and I have sinned in this pride. I never broke my vows and have always respected my wife’s rights. I just wish now she had used them more emphatically to stop my foolish pride and tragic results of a disorientated friendship.

Hello,
First off I want to say Im so sorry for your tragic loss. However you need to KNOW that you did not contribute to your friends sickness at all. We are NEVER responsible for others hurting themselves. No matter even if they say “because of you” its not. Only they have complete control over their thoughts, emotions, and actions. (I know nothing what it felt like for you but I do kind of understand the irrational guilt. I always used to blame myself when I was younger for my moms manic depression and schizophrenia episodes. It tool a long time to teach myself that no matter what the other person says you have nothing to do with their mentally ill behaviors.) I pray that you find peace.
Also thank you very much for your comment. It does help a lot to hear advice from a husband who first disagreed with his wife about her concerns but later sees it as right. It feels so bad to have to ask my husband to be a certain way with his friends but me just completely putting up with it seems a sin to our marriage also.

 

[newcatholicwife]

Sorry OP, but can I just ask how old you and your husband are, and how old this other girl is? I feel like maybe that would help frame this conversation a bit better.

My husband is 28, I’m 25, and the girl is now 21.

 

[newcatholicwife]

Any man who demanded I get rid of my male friends I would get rid of, unless he had a very good reason about that specific relationship. It’s not about “loyalty” to this person or that person, it’s about doing what is right. If you allow your spouse to force you to betray your friend you are sinning, and if you think of it in terms of “loyalty” all you have done is put them over doing what is right. The simple truth is your spouse would be commanding you to hurt someone else who had done nothing wrong. It is no more right or loyal than if they required you to physically strike the person so they would feel better.

I just wanted to say that I agree its wrong if you get married and the wife says “You cant have any female friends anymore.” But I do know its true that your spouse always comes first. Like his wife, I think its best for the spouse to evaluate the situations individually. I guess Im really trying to learn how to do this in a christian wife way.

 

[DarkLight]

I just wanted to say that I agree its wrong if you get married and the wife says “You cant have any female friends anymore.” But I do know its true that your spouse always comes first. Like his wife, I think its best for the spouse to evaluate the situations individually. I guess Im really trying to learn how to do this in a christian wife way.

In your case, I would say what I’ve said before. Find someone who can sit down with the two of you and evaluate how best to handle the situations. I’ve had strong friendships that would never be a problem, and I’ve had ones that had to end lest they become a threat to someone else’s marriage. To me the issue is close for personal reasons.

It sounds to me like you’re not sure whether you’re just jealous or whether there actually is a problem. I doubt anyone online can really tell which is which. I would take it to a priest or some other person who can talk to you as a couple.

 

[Petaro]

Hello,
First off I want to say Im so sorry for your tragic loss. However you need to KNOW that you did not contribute to your friends sickness at all. We are NEVER responsible for others hurting themselves. No matter even if they say “because of you” its not. Only they have complete control over their thoughts, emotions, and actions. (I know nothing what it felt like for you but I do kind of understand the irrational guilt. I always used to blame myself when I was younger for my moms manic depression and schizophrenia episodes. It tool a long time to teach myself that no matter what the other person says you have nothing to do with their mentally ill behaviors.) I pray that you find peace.
Also thank you very much for your comment. It does help a lot to hear advice from a husband who first disagreed with his wife about her concerns but later sees it as right. It feels so bad to have to ask my husband to be a certain way with his friends but me just completely putting up with it seems a sin to our marriage also.

Thanks for the thoughts. I just want you to realise that you have rights within your marriage. Now whether and how you exercise them is up to you. I would suggest subtle recognition of your husband’s enjoyment with the stroking of his ego such attention can bring to an immature husband who has not yet come to recognise the responsibilities of marriage. I think I was like that. I would tell him outright of your discomfort and leave it at that. Let him find the solution. Men are good at finding solutions as they can bring them to you like a puppy with a rat. Demands may only get his back up, especially if he feels deep inside that his behaviour is skirting on the dangerous. I think I was cowardly like that.
It may take time but if he really is yours he will change the situation in his own way and come to you proudly with a solution or offer of compromise.God bless you.
The poster who suggests that they would leave someone who makes such demands as to end an innocent friendship may not recognise the sanctity of marriage over all other relationships. A true friend would understand and back off the couple respecting their vows to each other. In such situations discussion and compomise is the foundation of a trusting marriage. To stand up on one’s back haunches and demand the right to keep innocent friends doe not show respect due to a spouse. Discussion and request for compromise lays the foundation for the better road.

 

[DarkLight]

Thanks for the thoughts. I just want you to realise that you have rights within your marriage. Now whether and how you exercise them is up to you. I would suggest subtle recognition of your husband’s enjoyment with the stroking of his ego such attention can bring to an immature husband who has not yet come to recognise the responsibilities of marriage. I think I was like that. I would tell him outright of your discomfort and leave it at that. Let him find the solution. Men are good at finding solutions as they can bring them to you like a puppy with a rat. Demands may only get his back up, especially if he feels deep inside that his behaviour is skirting on the dangerous. I think I was cowardly like that.
It may take time but if he really is yours he will change the situation in his own way and come to you proudly with a solution or offer of compromise.God bless you.
The poster who suggests that they would leave someone who makes such demands as to end an innocent friendship may not recognise the sanctity of marriage over all other relationships. A true friend would understand and back off the couple respecting their vows to each other. In such situations discussion and compomise is the foundation of a trusting marriage. To stand up on one’s back haunches and demand the right to keep innocent friends doe not show respect due to a spouse. Discussion and request for compromise lays the foundation for the better road.

I think you’d be surprised…some of us have heard “sanctity of marriage” so many times over. What’s a single person to do, only make friends with people who aren’t going to date or marry? Or live in a world where every close relationship you have could be yanked away from you at any moment merely to satisfy the discomfort of a spouse? Heaven help those of us with SSA if we’d like some close friendships, ever, because it might threaten someone!

You can only put up with that sort of “sanctity” for so long before it starts to come across that you aren’t as important or worth having real relationships with, because you aren’t married. Because it only takes a spouse that’s uncomfortable for the people you’ve loved and who’ve provided you with friendship and emotional support to take that away.

 

[newcatholicwife]

Thanks for the thoughts. I just want you to realise that you have rights within your marriage. Now whether and how you exercise them is up to you. I would suggest subtle recognition of your husband’s enjoyment with the stroking of his ego such attention can bring to an immature husband who has not yet come to recognise the responsibilities of marriage. I think I was like that. I would tell him outright of your discomfort and leave it at that. Let him find the solution. Men are good at finding solutions as they can bring them to you like a puppy with a rat. Demands may only get his back up, especially if he feels deep inside that his behaviour is skirting on the dangerous. I think I was cowardly like that.
It may take time but if he really is yours he will change the situation in his own way and come to you proudly with a solution or offer of compromise.God bless you.
The poster who suggests that they would leave someone who makes such demands as to end an innocent friendship may not recognise the sanctity of marriage over all other relationships. A true friend would understand and back off the couple respecting their vows to each other. In such situations discussion and compomise is the foundation of a trusting marriage. To stand up on one’s back haunches and demand the right to keep innocent friends doe not show respect due to a spouse. Discussion and request for compromise lays the foundation for the better road.

Thank you. To be honest it seems like he is like you were with his friendships. I think he truly is a wonderful and genuine friend (one reason why I married him) but his behavior very much seems hungry for constant flattery/attention/recognition? I try to tell him often how amazing I think he is but I guess its just a weakness he has where he constantly needs affirmation from many people. Still I think he is a very selfless and generous friend to everyone.
I agree with you I should remember my place as wife but wont give any demands. Ill be as open with my feelings as I can but be willing to listen to him as well with compromise.
Thank you again for your valuable advice. God bless you.

 

[newcatholicwife]

Thank you everyone for your responses. It really helps to hear other Catholic opinions besides my family’s. I will pray often about this and do my best to be open and understanding for each of our feelings equally. Thank you, God bless you.

 

[maryjk]

I think you’d be surprised…some of us have heard “sanctity of marriage” so many times over. What’s a single person to do, only make friends with people who aren’t going to date or marry? Or live in a world where every close relationship you have could be yanked away from you at any moment merely to satisfy the discomfort of a spouse? Heaven help those of us with SSA if we’d like some close friendships, ever, because it might threaten someone!

Actually I would say, that a single female shouldn’t have a close, personal relationship with a single man unless they are considering marriage to each other.

You can only put up with that sort of “sanctity” for so long before it starts to come across that you aren’t as important or worth having real relationships with, because you aren’t married. Because it only takes a spouse that’s uncomfortable for the people you’ve loved and who’ve provided you with friendship and emotional support to take that away.

As harsh as it sounds, my husband’s relationship with me* is* more important than his relationship with a friend. Ours has to last a lifetime.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Actually I would say, that a single female shouldn’t have a close, personal relationship with a single man unless they are considering marriage to each other.
As harsh as it sounds, my husband’s relationship with me* is* more important than his relationship with a friend. Ours has to last a lifetime.

As a single person, there was no person I was closer to as a friend or relation than my mother. Even today, I talk to her daily, even if it is a short howdy and I love you.

However, as a husband, I know I had to leave my mother (and father) and cleave to my wife. Not always easy for some, but that is my wife and I’d calling. The things my mother and I discuss now are not the same things we discussed when I was single. Those topics are now reserved for my wife.

Marriage involved sacrifice for our spouses, and prioritizing their needs over ours (and certainly over “friends.”). If we are to leave our parents in order to cleave to our spouses, what do you think the expectation is for friends, who are of no relation at all?

 

[PhiloMed]

Actually I would say, that a single female shouldn’t have a close, personal relationship with a single man unless they are considering marriage to each other.
.

Well that would probably mean I didn’t have any friends at all except for my husband.

We make friends at all different stages of life. Some of the same sex, some of the opposite. Some of these friendships last. For me, it happens that my closest friends are male (one I’ve known since we were 6 years old). If my husband had a problem with me continuing to have them as an important part of my life I wouldn’t have married him…since I don’t marry crazy, jealous people.

But to the OP: I think you’ve gotten some great advice from DarkLight. You might need a neutral 3rd party (like a priest or counselor) to help you decide how to handle this. Remember, though, that he has respected your wishes so how about you respect his friendship with this person. Particularly if neither has ever given you any reason not to trust them.

 

[AnneTeresa]

Thank you for your post. Yes we are trying to get to know each other. Its difficult as she doesnt speak much english and I dont speak much spanish. But we are both taking classes.

And honestly yes I do trust him but to a certain extent. Like if he got drunk with one of his female friends that was attracted to him. He has a history of heavy drinking but is better now. Also when we first started dating I had problems with his sense of humor. He is a flirt with a lit of women. But he does it in a joking matter. He even does it with 80 yr old ladies. I understand sometimes but the problem is sometimes they dont understand. Ive also seen him be too friendly/flirty with women that were clearly attracted to him… but he sees it all as a joke and doesnt realize how much hes leading them on.

I cant change his sense of humor and flattery. Hes better about it now but still does it sometimes. However I know he never has bad intentions.
I trust him, but I guess I just feel like hes too naive sometimes when it comes to personal boundaries and how he makes others feel despite his innocent intentions.

My 2 cents… you don’t fully trust him and there are some reasons why that is the case. Out of respect he should honor your wishes. Of course you can’t force that he do so. But if you are uncomfortable, then the loving thing for him to do is listen and respond. If you feel uncomfortable you have every right to express that and ask him to stop seeing her. It is up to him if he responds or not. I’ve been married 28 years to a man with boundary issues, so I’ve been there, done that!

 

[brigid12]

I think that you should do as you have done and cut down his contact with this girl. I had the exact same thing happen in my family (he was sure nothing would happen with a friend) and the result was not what he expected - the result was wrenching for the girl. A husband/wife own the others body and anything uncomfortable or risky should be respected. I can see only heartache for you if you let him flirt with her.

 

[DarkLight]

Actually I would say, that a single female shouldn’t have a close, personal relationship with a single man unless they are considering marriage to each other.
As harsh as it sounds, my husband’s relationship with me* is* more important than his relationship with a friend. Ours has to last a lifetime.

Of course, my point about SSA…would that mean that some of us shouldn’t have a close, personal relationship with a woman either? Because there’s people who know I’m attracted to women and I know guys who aren’t comfortable with people like me being friends with their wife either.

And yes, we don’t have full control over the relationships we get in our lives. My life path has brought me into contact with very few women my own age. None of those relationships really worked out. It was men who were there when I had a tough time, men who guided my journey back to faith, all that. I didn’t pick them specifically, they were just who was there.

One doesn’t have to disbelieve in the sanctity of marriage to believe that it’s possible to go to far and do wrong. A man must leave his family and cleave to his wife - but were his wife to tell him she didn’t want his mother around without serious reason it would not be right for him to go along. It is not a requirement of marriage that relationships that threaten only the spouse’s comfort be abandoned. As I said before, if your spouse’s comfort required you to strike your friend, that would still be wrong. Why would inflicting emotional pain on a friend be right?

 

[maryjk]

lOne doesn’t have to disbelieve in the sanctity of marriage to believe that it’s possible to go to far and do wrong. A man must leave his family and cleave to his wife - but were his wife to tell him she didn’t want his mother around without serious reason it would not be right for him to go along. It is not a requirement of marriage that relationships that threaten only the spouse’s comfort be abandoned. As I said before, if your spouse’s comfort required you to strike your friend, that would still be wrong. Why would inflicting emotional pain on a friend be right?

I simply believe that if my spouse needs a girl friend to hang out with, he doesn’t need me.

I wouldn’t have a problem with my husband having a female friend,* if *she was also my friend.

(Are you really comparing assault to ending a friendship?)

 

[DarkLight]

I simply believe that if my spouse needs a girl friend to hang out with, he doesn’t need me.

I wouldn’t have a problem with my husband having a female friend,* if *she was also my friend.

(Are you really comparing assault to ending a friendship?)

shrug I think intentionally hurting someone is intentionally hurting someone. I don’t think I make as big a deal about the gender of friends as some people here. Between dealing with SSA, being frequently in all-male environments, and so forth, I realize that any friendship can be either innocent or damaging. Sometime’s it’s the husband’s female friend, sometimes it’s his male buddy, sometimes it’s the wife’s female friend who she knows had a girlfriend in college.

I think issues should be discussed and worked out on a case-by-case basis, but that it’s wrong of a spouse to demand that the other partner end a friendship (hurting the other person in the process) without good reason, and I don’t think a spouse is automatically required to comply with ending an innocent friendship out of the partner’s discomfort. I know I certainly would not want to be in the position of being told I can no longer talk to a life-long friend because their spouse is uncomfortable, and I don’t think that’s a fair position to put someone in. A slap across the face would hurt far, far less.

Sometimes the friendship really does need to end. Sometimes the other partner needs to work on their jealousy. It’s too hard to tell which is which over the internet. I just don’t think this is a matter that can be reduced simply to “don’t be close friends with the opposite sex.”

 

[maryjk]

shrug I think intentionally hurting someone is intentionally hurting someone. I don’t think I make as big a deal about the gender of friends as some people here. Between dealing with SSA, being frequently in all-male environments, and so forth, I realize that any friendship can be either innocent or damaging. Sometime’s it’s the husband’s female friend, sometimes it’s his male buddy, sometimes it’s the wife’s female friend who she knows had a girlfriend in college.

Obviously many different types of friends can cause problems after someone is married.

I think issues should be discussed and worked out on a case-by-case basis, but that it’s wrong of a spouse to demand that the other partner end a friendship (hurting the other person in the process) without good reason, and I don’t think a spouse is automatically required to comply with ending an innocent friendship out of the partner’s discomfort. I know I certainly would not want to be in the position of being told I can no longer talk to a life-long friend because their spouse is uncomfortable, and I don’t think that’s a fair position to put someone in. A slap across the face would hurt far, far less.

Discomfort comes from somewhere. Those hairs on the back of your neck? They mean something.

True story:
When my son was young, he had a friend whose parents I hung out with. I was friendly with the family, but my husband didn’t really know them all that well. My husband was at work during the day, and the other couple worked funky hours and were both home during normal working hours.

Then the wife had an affair. And the couple separated. The wife moved out of the family home and the kids were on an alternate week schedule. I wasn’t thrilled with the situation, but it really didn’t effect me much. Our kids still played together and I still saw the kids as often as I normally did.

But then the husband started calling me at odd hours. Normally to complain about his wife, but sometimes “just to talk.” I didn’t see it as a problem. I mean heck, the guy just got dumped on. No wonder he needs a shoulder to cry on.

But my husband knew something was hinky. So the next time the guy called, my husband told him that I had already gone to bed. He then asked if there was something that he could do for the guy. Nope, the guy just wanted to talk. But the next time I saw the guy, he was quite upset at my husband. He didn’t understand why my husband wanted to “keep us apart.” At that point we sat down and talked. The guy really seemed to think that we had something starting, with each other.

I never saw that coming. But my husband did. He said that he had felt uncomfortable with our “friendship.” When I really only saw it as a couple of parents hanging out while the kids played.

Sometimes the friendship really does need to end. Sometimes the other partner needs to work on their jealousy. It’s too hard to tell which is which over the internet. I just don’t think this is a matter that can be reduced simply to “don’t be close friends with the opposite sex.”

All I can say is that once I got married, I wasn’t interested in spending time with another guy. And I wouldn’t have been happy if my husband wanted alone time with another woman.

I just don’t see the point.

And as I said before, I can’t see a young woman being so close to a man, that she isn’t interested in dating/marrying.

Obviously those with SSA have an entirely different can of worms to open.