Husband and female friends?

[DarkLight]

I just don’t see the point.

And as I said before, I can’t see a young woman being so close to a man, that she isn’t interested in dating/marrying.

Obviously those with SSA have an entirely different can of worms to open.

And I have the opposite story to tell. I’ve spent close time with a married man. Nothing was happening, his wife knew me and knew that I’d never do anything. I also have close unmarried male friends where we’ve known each other for years and never been interested at all in each other. In fact these people are probably the best and closest support system I have - if I had to leave them I’d be utterly alone in the world. I also credit these men, married and not, with being the people that brought me back to Christianity, something that never would have happened if they’d avoided close friendships.

I also happen to be a person with bisexual attractions which are fairly commonly known, so as far as I can tell there’s no “safe” relationship for me. I’ve known men who wouldn’t want me anywhere near their wives based on that fact alone, no matter that I would never do anything. Discomfort can come from many things - in that case all it came from was some guy’s assumption that bisexual tendencies were automatically equivalent to promiscuity and that my history (of having one girlfriend) meant that I was going to try to seduce his wife. I’ve also had a boyfriend who tried his hardest to isolate me from male friends and ended up trying to be very controlling in other areas out of jealousy. I work long hours with mostly men, and I know many guys who would be uncomfortable that I’m alone in an office with another man like that.

That’s why I said what I did. Sometimes discomfort means there’s a problem with the spouse, or with their friend. Sometimes it means the person getting uncomfortable is just unduly suspicious.and needs to work on that. Absent any specific signs I think this is something that needs to be worked out between spouses, without one side or the other making demands.

 

[White_Tree]

I am so confused as a newly married wife (its been a little over a year).

Should my husband be able to have close female friends? Like the kind who he would hang out with alone for at least a few hours at a time, or talk to/text for periods of time?
All my family who is married (my grandparents, parents, uncles and aunts, and cousins) dont believe in having close friends of the opposite sex once your married.

…]

Jealousy is a frightening demon to have to deal with. If you let it get out of control, it can destroy your marriage. I’ve seen more than one marriage end because of unfounded jealousy on the part of one of the partners.

Already, your jealousy has driven you to spy on your husband’s communications. What will it convince you to do next?

 

[Petaro]

I think you’d be surprised…some of us have heard “sanctity of marriage” so many times over. What’s a single person to do, only make friends with people who aren’t going to date or marry? Or live in a world where every close relationship you have could be yanked away from you at any moment merely to satisfy the discomfort of a spouse? Heaven help those of us with SSA if we’d like some close friendships, ever, because it might threaten someone!

You can only put up with that sort of “sanctity” for so long before it starts to come across that you aren’t as important or worth having real relationships with, because you aren’t married. Because it only takes a spouse that’s uncomfortable for the people you’ve loved and who’ve provided you with friendship and emotional support to take that away.

I can understand your frustration at having to be the innocent victim of another’s insecurity and jealousy. However, put yourself in the other’s shoes. Would you expect your man to show you that you are the one special to him if you expressed fear or discomfort at what to him is an innocent friendship based on years? I would hope you would have the maturity to accept compromise as my wife did and come to a trusting continuation or accommodation to the partner’s past. After all he didn’t just rise up from the ocean.
However, if the other woman cannot get over her own insecurities, real or imagined, then there is little option, if you love your friend to withdraw from the field as a matter of honour.

 

[maryjk]

And I have the opposite story to tell. I’ve spent close time with a married man. Nothing was happening, his wife knew me and knew that I’d never do anything. I also have close unmarried male friends where we’ve known each other for years and never been interested at all in each other. In fact these people are probably the best and closest support system I have - if I had to leave them I’d be utterly alone in the world. I also credit these men, married and not, with being the people that brought me back to Christianity, something that never would have happened if they’d avoided close friendships.

I’m glad you have had friends.

But that doesn’t convince me that *married *men should have close, personal, friendships with a woman. I just cannot see a married man spending hours of alone time with another woman as being a good idea. (Obviously if it is his mother or sister, that is another story.) But when a man marries, he leaves his mother for his wife. Why wouldn’t he leave his *girl *friends?

I also happen to be a person with bisexual attractions which are fairly commonly known, so as far as I can tell there’s no “safe” relationship for me. I’ve known men who wouldn’t want me anywhere near their wives based on that fact alone, no matter that I would never do anything. Discomfort can come from many things - in that case all it came from was some guy’s assumption that bisexual tendencies were automatically equivalent to promiscuity and that my history (of having one girlfriend) meant that I was going to try to seduce his wife. I’ve also had a boyfriend who tried his hardest to isolate me from male friends and ended up trying to be very controlling in other areas out of jealousy. I work long hours with mostly men, and I know many guys who would be uncomfortable that I’m alone in an office with another man like that.

As I said, SSA is a different can of worms. Well, so is bisexuality. And neither is what we are talking about here.

 

[newcatholicwife]

Thank you again everyone for your responses. Im so grateful to have joined this site. Last night I confessed to my husband that I was looking at his messages in the past and asked for his forgiveness. He was very loving and patient, saying he has nothing to hide. We talked about many things… and I realized I really had been in the wrong because of my lack of trust in him. Unfortunately, shamefully, I realize its probably from a past relationship I had. He too had many female friends. The difference was was that he was extremely secretive about it. Also the nature of his friendhips were different. Sometimes they would call him at midnight crying about boyfriend troubles. Other things too., This is not the case with my husbands friendships. Maybe he really does know to keep the right emotional boundaries. Another thing I realized really hurt was that I was working too much. I didnt even have time to see my own friends and family. Of course I was jealous when he had free time and spent it with another lady who doesnt work. He never asked me to work so much, I was scared as it was the first time living away from parents and wanted to make sure we earned enough. Anyways I understand and trust him completely now and realize in my personal situation it was mostly my doing. I am so blessed to have an amazing husband I can trust fully.
I read what all of you have been saying and now Im seeing it differently. Do you think inappropriate friendships are more about EXCLUSIVENESS? Like either hiding them from our spouse, not wanting our spouse to be there, talking about things that should be saved only for our spouse? So when is it appropriate to confide in friends things you cant talk to with your spouse? Like if you get in a fight with your spouse and need venting/advice? I dont think its appropriate to talk to about with a close opposite sex friend. So would it be ok with a same sex friend?
I still agree your spouse is always first. That never changes. So what exactly IS an inappropriate friendship? I am thinking when it is exclusive, and when you are sharing time and intimate secrets that should only be saved for your spouse?

 

[maryjk]

I read what all of you have been saying and now Im seeing it differently. Do you think inappropriate friendships are more about EXCLUSIVENESS? Like either hiding them from our spouse, not wanting our spouse to be there, talking about things that should be saved only for our spouse? So when is it appropriate to confide in friends things you cant talk to with your spouse? Like if you get in a fight with your spouse and need venting/advice? I dont think its appropriate to talk to about with a close opposite sex friend. So would it be ok with a same sex friend?
I still agree your spouse is always first. That never changes. So what exactly IS an inappropriate friendship? I am thinking when it is exclusive, and when you are sharing time and intimate secrets that should only be saved for your spouse?

I believe that if you need to vent, you need to do so with your spouse. Not with your friends, regardless of their gender. The only time I could see someone telling me about their spousal fights is if they need a place to stay when they are fleeing an abuser.

Think about it this way. If we are friends, lets say we exercise together, every day. And every day, you share with me your marital problems. After about a month of it, I meet your husband. What do you think I would think of him? Keep in mind I have been listening to you vent about him. Is that really how I should see your husband?

If I have problems with my husband, I take it to my husband. Its that simple.

 

[DarkLight]

I’m glad you have had friends.

But that doesn’t convince me that *married *men should have close, personal, friendships with a woman. I just cannot see a married man spending hours of alone time with another woman as being a good idea. (Obviously if it is his mother or sister, that is another story.) But when a man marries, he leaves his mother for his wife. Why wouldn’t he leave his *girl *friends? As I said, SSA is a different can of worms. Well, so is bisexuality. And neither is what we are talking about here.

It is what we are talking about here because the logical implication of what you’ve said would be that a bisexual person couldn’t have close friends that weren’t permanently single. It’s a simple reductio argument. And I think no true friendship is possible if a man is willing to dump his friend the minute he marries.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

As a happily married woman with almost exclusively male friends, I believe that MaryJK and DarkLight are both right.

Hear me out. MaryJK is right in that regardless of the friendship or the circumstances, a marriage must always be put first. If friendships must end to protect a marriage, it’s unfortunate, but so be it. One of the harsh realities of being single is that you will never be loved the way that a husband or wife is loved, and you will never hold the same high place in someone’s life that a spouse holds.

DarkLight is right in that it is wrong to demand that your spouse end friendships. In a loving marriage each spouse should want what is truly best for the other. Sure, my husband has the “right” to ask that I discontinue my friendships with men-but he wouldn’t because he knows that would leave me very sad, lonely, and unfulfilled. My husband is the greatest man I know and he means the world to me. But I have interests, hobbies, and talents that he does not, and I have friends that I take a lot of joy in getting to explore those with. If he cut out my friends, he would be taking away a huge aspect of my life, and I don’t know if I would ever be the same. But because he is my husband, he doesn’t want that to happen. He has the right, but he also wants me to be happy. Because I am his wife, I am careful that my friendships never cross lines, that they are completely transparent, and that my husband is comfortable. If he weren’t comfortable, we would look for a solution that made us both happy and comfortable. That’s just part of being married.

I do take issue with MaryJK’s attitude that friends of the opposite sex are unnecessary for married people. My friends are all unique individuals and I have a unique relationship with each of them. The day I married I did not cut loose all of my friends with the intent to just go out and find suitable replacements with different genitals. They are real people, and they have seen me through a lot. They are not interchangeable with others and I’m not going to replace them. The fact is that I have a very hard time making female friends. I don’t know that I’ve ever had more than two at a time. Most of my interests, from my professional interests, to my love of the outdoors, to my love of football, to my love of war movies, to my table top role-playing hobby are very male-oriented. Even my musical talents are best shared with men-as most women don’t drum or love raw, 1980’s punk.

It’s funny, I have one friend that I actually go out dancing with. He’s a ballroom and swing dance instructor, and it’s something that I’ve always wanted to get into. My two left-footed husband has never had the ability or the interest, and a night out dancing sounds like a cruel punishment to him. So about once a month this friend will come over, we’ll all eat dinner, and then he and I head out to the ballroom. You can read from many of my other posts in Family Life that I take marital fidelity extremely seriously. But I introduced my husband to this friend when we were first dating. He has gotten to know and trust him over the years, and he trusts the nature of our friendship. Should I never explore this interest of mine because my husband doesn’t like it? Of course not! Should I go out dancing with any handsome man who asks? Of course not! But a good friend who has made an effort to get to know my husband and who has never been anything but honorable towards me and my marriage? Sure.

OP-Make an effort to get to know her. You are right to ask that they not spend a lot of time alone together, especially in someone’s private home. You are right to ask to be put first, and absolutely everything should be transparent. There should not be a single secret kept from you. But just because you are his wife doesn’t mean that he doesn’t need any other female to hang out with. You cannot fulfill every social or intellectual need that he has. He does need other friends to have fun with and talk to. That’s normal and healthy.

 

[InNomineDomini]

I’m glad you have had friends.

But that doesn’t convince me that *married *men should have close, personal, friendships with a woman. I just cannot see a married man spending hours of alone time with another woman as being a good idea. (Obviously if it is his mother or sister, that is another story.) But when a man marries, he leaves his mother for his wife. Why wouldn’t he leave his *girl *friends?

I agree with this completely. I find it odd to imagine a husband saying, Hi, dear! Welcome home from work. I’m sorry I can’t stay, I’m just going out to get some coffee with Jane. Be back in a few hours!

As is evidenced by this thread being created, these friendships are already causing some degree of scandal, confusion, and unease. A husband who is apathetic about establishing such conditions for his wife perhaps needs to develop a stronger prayer life.

Even if a wife were to have a weakness that would require sacrifice on the part of the husband, why … sacrifice is precisely what the Christian life is all about, to say nothing of the married life. A refusal to make sacrifices is neither loving nor Christian.

 

[maryjk]

As a happily married woman with almost exclusively male friends, I believe that MaryJK and DarkLight are both right.

Hear me out. MaryJK is right in that regardless of the friendship or the circumstances, a marriage must always be put first. If friendships must end to protect a marriage, it’s unfortunate, but so be it. One of the harsh realities of being single is that you will never be loved the way that a husband or wife is loved, and you will never hold the same high place in someone’s life that a spouse holds.

DarkLight is right in that it is wrong to demand that your spouse end friendships. In a loving marriage each spouse should want what is truly best for the other. Sure, my husband has the “right” to ask that I discontinue my friendships with men-but he wouldn’t because he knows that would leave me very sad, lonely, and unfulfilled. My husband is the greatest man I know and he means the world to me. But I have interests, hobbies, and talents that he does not, and I have friends that I take a lot of joy in getting to explore those with. If he cut out my friends, he would be taking away a huge aspect of my life, and I don’t know if I would ever be the same. But because he is my husband, he doesn’t want that to happen. He has the right, but he also wants me to be happy. Because I am his wife, I am careful that my friendships never cross lines, that they are completely transparent, and that my husband is comfortable. If he weren’t comfortable, we would look for a solution that made us both happy and comfortable. That’s just part of being married.

I do take issue with MaryJK’s attitude that friends of the opposite sex are unnecessary for married people. My friends are all unique individuals and I have a unique relationship with each of them. The day I married I did not cut loose all of my friends with the intent to just go out and find suitable replacements with different genitals. They are real people, and they have seen me through a lot. They are not interchangeable with others and I’m not going to replace them. The fact is that I have a very hard time making female friends. I don’t know that I’ve ever had more than two at a time. Most of my interests, from my professional interests, to my love of the outdoors, to my love of football, to my love of war movies, to my table top role-playing hobby are very male-oriented. Even my musical talents are best shared with men-as most women don’t drum or love raw, 1980’s punk.

It isn’t that friends of the opposite sex are unnecessary. It is that close, personal friends, that you spend a lot of alone time with, are unnecessary. It is the going off alone that seems to be the problem. Essentially it is the replacing of the spouse with a friend that I find problematic.

It’s funny, I have one friend that I actually go out dancing with. He’s a ballroom and swing dance instructor, and it’s something that I’ve always wanted to get into. My two left-footed husband has never had the ability or the interest, and a night out dancing sounds like a cruel punishment to him. So about once a month this friend will come over, we’ll all eat dinner, and then he and I head out to the ballroom. You can read from many of my other posts in Family Life that I take marital fidelity extremely seriously. But I introduced my husband to this friend when we were first dating. He has gotten to know and trust him over the years, and he trusts the nature of our friendship. Should I never explore this interest of mine because my husband doesn’t like it? Of course not! Should I go out dancing with any handsome man who asks? Of course not! But a good friend who has made an effort to get to know my husband and who has never been anything but honorable towards me and my marriage? Sure.

But see, even here, you are eating dinner with your spouse. Then you are attending an event. Unless you are going over to your friend’s house, alone with him, to dance?

For the OP, the woman that her husband is hanging out with speaks a different language. So when the two of them talk, the wife is left out of the conversation. And it isn’t that the friend doesn’t speak English. So why are they intentionally speaking a language that isn’t understood by everyone present?

It also sounds like the two of them hang out at the house, alone. This doesn’t sound like an open relationship where nothing is hidden. Sorry it just doesn’t.

OP-Make an effort to get to know her. You are right to ask that they not spend a lot of time alone together, especially in someone’s private home. You are right to ask to be put first, and absolutely everything should be transparent. There should not be a single secret kept from you. But just because you are his wife doesn’t mean that he doesn’t need any other female to hang out with. You cannot fulfill every social or intellectual need that he has. He does need other friends to have fun with and talk to. That’s normal and healthy.

I agree. Especially to the point that the relationship should be transparent. That there shouldn’t be any secrets. And they shouldn’t be hanging out with each other when no one else is around.

All of that said, I still believe that men and women should avoid friendships with the opposite sex, when the friendship is a close, personal one and when they spend time with just each other. Sorry, maybe I am just old fashioned, but to me it is wrong.

 

[DarkLight]

For the OP, the woman that her husband is hanging out with speaks a different language. So when the two of them talk, the wife is left out of the conversation. And it isn’t that the friend doesn’t speak English. So why are they intentionally speaking a language that isn’t understood by everyone present?

From the thread it sounded like the woman has difficulty conversing in English, so she probably only basically understands it.

 

[maryjk]

From the thread it sounded like the woman has difficulty conversing in English, so she probably only basically understands it.

If this is the case, then the husband should be acting as translator.

It is simply rude for the husband to have private conversations *in front of his wife, in another language. *

It is rude for anyone to do that. But particularly harsh for the husband to do it.

 

[LoveJesus13]

I think you have every right to ask your husband and to talk to him how you truly feel. Open and honest communication is expected at all times. I’m sorry that you are hurting, I’d feel the same. Please pray and ask God to help you. It’s hard when emotionally he is spending a lot of time with her too. My prayers are with you and you can always get support here on CAF! God bless you.

 

[bstorm]

If this is the case, then the husband should be acting as translator.

It is simply rude for the husband to have private conversations *in front of his wife, in another language. *

It is rude for anyone to do that. But particularly harsh for the husband to do it.

I disagree with you. Different cultures have different definitions of what is rude. What you might find extremely rude can be completely normal for somebody else and vice versa. It is also very tiring to be translating everything all the time. The OP married somebody from a different culture who speaks a different language. She will either have to learn the language or deal with the fact that there will be a lot of conversations in front of her that she will not understand. It is simply impractical for the husband to act as a translator all the time. My husband’s family speaks a language I do not understand, so I know what I am talking about.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I would paraphrase Blueeyedlady and say that friendships between members of the opposite sex are not in and of themselves immoral, but may present problems.

It’s possible the husband here doesn’t even know what an emotional affair is. He’s just out having a good time with a friend to notice your pain.

But Blueeyedlady is right: the marriage must come first, and that is not really what is happening here.

It could be considered an emotional affair I suppose, but it sounds like the type of affair where he’s just having fun, not the sultry, sneaky pillow-talk of “let’s HAVE a sexual encounter.”

Of course, that’s a possibility, and you need to let him know about your concerns immediately.

 

[thewanderer]

I would paraphrase Blueeyedlady and say that friendships between members of the opposite sex are not in and of themselves immoral, but may present problems.

It’s possible the husband here doesn’t even know what an emotional affair is. He’s just out having a good time with a friend to notice your pain.

But Blueeyedlady is right: the marriage must come first, **and that is not really what is happening here. **

It could be considered an emotional affair I suppose, but it sounds like the type of affair where he’s just having fun, not the sultry, sneaky pillow-talk of “let’s HAVE a sexual encounter.”

Of course, that’s a possibility, and you need to let him know about your concerns immediately.

Actually, I think that is not true at all. It sounds like the relationship was perfectly innocent, but more time-consuming because of the particular circumstances than was appropriate, especially because it bothered the OP. The husband didn’t realize this was a problem and so thought it was all fine until one day the OP brought it up to him and asked him to spend less time with this person and especially to spend less time with her alone. The OP’s husband, seeing that this was something that bothered his wife willingly complied and has both cut back on the amount of time spent with this woman as well as the amount of time spent with her alone. That sounds to me as though the husband is being very considerate here, sure, he didn’t realize at first that it was a problem, but as soon as he did he willingly did what it took to fix that aspect of the problem.

Also, the OP has been checking her husband’s correspondence because she felt insecure, there is no indication that this is any kind of affair, and, from the husband’s willingness to work with his wife and b respectful of her wishes I highly doubt the OP has anything to worry about.

OP, don’t feel bad about asking your husband to cut back on time spent with this woman. It is really very understandable that someone would become jealous of their husband spending hours alone with another woman. I agree that you should not try to overly restrict the relationship, but asking him to cut down time spent with her, and specifically, time spent with her alone especially considering the amount of time he spends with her and the particular way it effects you is not something to feel guilty about.

 

[Stillsosola]

1st contact e registro civil in mexico she might have been jis wife! Just saying i live in mexico and have seen men and women do things like that such as hes married in mexico and gets married in the states brings in his “sister,aunt,friend” around his american wife same goes for women.

2nd tell him how it makes you feel and that its not appropriate in your opinion

3rd tell her to back off that its inappropriate if she speaks spanish pm me i can tell you what to say to her

Also its incredibly rude to speak in another language around others in mexico im mot allowed to speak english in front of my husbands relatives its very rude to them so your husband knows hes being rude

Also its inappropriate for a married man to publically dance with a woman whom is not a blood relative or his wife its a no no in my husbands family so tell himto either teach you cumbias which are a very sexy dance in my opinion or to sit down!

And im going to be blunt he sounds like a typical cheating man to me texting “sisters,friends” in spanish knowing your not fluent is trouble

Also you said hes a flirt red flag

You need to confront him and this woman and pm me ill send you thhe registro civils phone numbers and website just pm me the state they are from to be sure hes never been married before even joking like that is inappropriate

Mexican culture does not encourage these kinds of friendships from what ive seen during my 8 years married to a mexican man and my 3 yrs living in mexico he has no excuse so dont let him feed you any

Good luck and sorry for my bluntness i just hate to see women suffer and it seems your very bothered by this

 

[twf]

We have the right to set reasonable boundaries in our relationships. Spouses need to respect each other’s feelings. We should be able to sit down, hash everything out, and come to an agreement. If one or both spouses aren’t willing to do this, there is an issue of communication.
I think cultural differences may also be at play here. I am a very Anglo Canadian man married to a Dominican woman. One of the biggest struggles in our relationship before we got married, especially during the first year of dating, was my constant jealousy…because the way Dominican men and women, even if they are only platonic friends, talk to each other comes across as EXTREMELY flirty plain and simple, non-stop. Married men, with their wives right next to them, would act and talk to my then girlfriend in a way any Canadian (or Anglo American) would consider OVER THE TOP flirting. It’s simply the way the culture operates, and it took many months for my then girlfriend (now wife) to understand why this bothered me. At first she thought I was a crazy foreign nut job who was blowing up over what she considered normal cultural behavior. For example, one man at her church texted her that she is so beautiful “Eve in Paradise would be jealous”. Apparently this man had a girlfriend of his own and was a respected member of the church community. It took many hours to get across why this would bother me, or why this would be seen as inappropriate flirting in my culture. Understanding those cultural differences is very important. My wife also had many male friends who she would spend time with alone earlier on in our relationship, but she has since come to understand why I consider it so important that neither of us ever see a friend of the opposite sex without the other knowing the “who, why, and when” in advance…but it took a lot of dialogue and patience to get to this point.

I do have close female friends as well, but my wife knows who they are (in fact two of them were among her bridesmaids) and when I see them - which is quite rare. I can truly say they are like sisters to me. It is indeed possible to have platonic relationships with the opposite sex, but when one or both of you are married, very clear boundaries must be in place.

 

[sad_brown_eyes]

Hi There OP
I think your husband is being a bit silly here accidentally. As I understand you are newly married and this relationship is causing you a bit of insecurity. As others have said it would be great if you could meet this girl and be friends with her that way you can find out more about her.
also it seems to me that he is of a different cultural and linguistic background from you which is probably why he can talk to her in a way and a language he cant speak with you. This is a great place of growth in your marriage, ask him about his past his culture, ask him to teach you spanish. This way he and you will spend more time together as well.
Try to discover what needs in your husband this sister of his is meeting, and then try to meet this need for him.
I also sense you are a bit insecure about this friendship, you may want to find out why you are insecure, do you feel he will cheat on you? if so where is this idea and fear coming from.
I understand you dont want to pressure him by bringing it up all the time, this is good men tend to hate that and think you are mothering him and he will resent it and end up resenting you and will talk more to her and that will be bad. So pray pray pray as well.