Husband and I not having sex because we don't want children.

[Laurent_LUG]

@ EasterJoy
Ok and thanks for the info , anyway , i do respect the couple’s choice

I’m not married or living together and also i don’t wanna have kids !!
I love my life , i love to live “alone” (my own choice)
And so i’m not qualified to give a solution

 

[EasterJoy]

Some people are suggesting that you use NFP. They are wrong. NFP cannot be used for selfish reasons (which you yourself admit is the reason you don’t want children). It can only be used for serious reasons.

There doesn’t seem to be any direct ordinance against abstaining from sex completely for selfish reasons. On the other hand, there are certain principles that you would run afoul such as the teaching that procreation is the primary purpose of marriage.

Hopefully Christ will “thaw” your hearts a little more still.

That is not quite right. A couple should not avoid having children, whether by NFP or by complete abstinence, unless they have a good and serious reason, such as wanting to avoid bring a child into a home where the child cannot be provided for or, in the case of this couple, in order to devote themselves to prayer and charitable works. That does not mean their motivations have to be perfectly without any less-praiseworthy elements.

For instance, let us say that my doctor wanted to put me on a medication that would render me infertile, for a condition serious enough to warrant that side-effect. I need to make that decision based on the medical reasons–is the condition serious enough to accept infertility as a possible side-effect? If the reason is serious and argues in favor of the medication, I shouldn’t decide against it purely because I also would rather not get pregnant. I just need to make sure that avoiding pregnancy isn’t my primary reason for accepting the treatment. That would be wrong. It needs to be a side-effect I would accept even if I did want to get pregnant, that is what I mean.

 

[dluna]

If you currently don’t wish children, but are open to God changing your desires, that is all you need to concern yourself with at present. There seems to be evidence that He is at work.

You aren’t contracepting, which is praiseworthy compared to most catholics, and it appears that God is sustaining you without sexual activity, so continue to trust Him and follow the requirements as you are now with an openness to a change in your desires in the future.

We agree that the Lord seems to have changed our minds somewhat from “total no to children” to "option of having children’. I sometimes pray that the Lord to please use me but not my womb, is this a wrong prayer? I fear childbirth and child rearing and don’t want to spend my time raising a child and spending time and resources on one. I know I sound selfish, I do really think I am.

The way children are raised comes from home. If you don’t raise children to be “ill mannered brats” then they won’t be. Not all children are ill mannered brats, no matter where you live.

There are good children, but there is so much bad influence everywhere in the city - consumerism, wants, demands, etc. These should not influence us but they have.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

It sounds like there is more going on than avoiding having a baby…

The top reasons I shared prior to having children is that husband and I both do not like babies and toddlers, and that even though they grow to be teenagers and adults, we don’t want to spend time and resources on them, given our hectic lifestyles. The other reason is that I fear pain and all the medical procedures that come with pregnancy and childbirth. I have not had a health check since 7 years ago because I cannot bear to be pricked with a needle to get a blood test done. I am in my early thirties and not had a pap smear or scope done at all too.

You mentioned that it sounded like there is more about us avoiding a baby. I’ve been pondering about this and the other reasons are such as:

• we don’t want a live-in maid to take care of our child should we have one but we both work full-time.
• husband is estranged from the non-catholic side of his family and thus, child will grow up without cousins and the support of a larger extended family
• I’ve been upfront with husband by telling him, that IF he wants a child, I will do my duty to provide one. However will he ever be supportive by helping with child-rearing and child-educating duties - ferrying child to classes, spending an hour of reading time or bonding time with child, spending time with other parents over child activities etc? He said no immediately. He wants his time to exclude such activities. He says he’s happy helping with catechism classes and choir at our parish now and whatever time left after house chores, he just wants to rest instead of dealing with a child. And I completely agree.

 

[sainthumbert]

That is not quite right. A couple should not avoid having children, whether by NFP or by complete abstinence, unless they have a good and serious reason, such as wanting to avoid bring a child into a home where the child cannot be provided for or, in the case of this couple, in order to devote themselves to prayer and charitable works. That does not mean their motivations have to be perfectly without any less-praiseworthy elements.

For instance, let us say that my doctor wanted to put me on a medication that would render me infertile, for a condition serious enough to warrant that side-effect. I need to make that decision based on the medical reasons–is the condition serious enough to accept infertility as a possible side-effect? If the reason is serious and argues in favor of the medication, I shouldn’t decide against it purely because I also would rather not get pregnant. I just need to make sure that avoiding pregnancy isn’t my primary reason for accepting the treatment. That would be wrong. It needs to be a side-effect I would accept even if I did want to get pregnant, that is what I mean.

Where is my post not quite right? I don’t understand from your post what you think isn’t quite right in my post.

 

[dluna]

As you both love each other dearly, I’m guessing you would happily have sex if it wasn’t for the possibility of kids?

I think you have gone a little too extreme and I’m not sure if it’s because you find the easier or truly don’t have knowledge of certain things. I don’t mean to patronise you if you do, so apologies if you are already aware of what I’m about to say…

OK, have you heard of natural family planning? Some sites make it sound a lot more complicated than it is?

Yes, we would be happily having sex if it weren’t about the possibility of having children. But it is hard to even want to get our paws around each other now. We feel “holy” about our bodies now and the act of sex seems so foreign.

Yes, we’ve heard of NFP but don’t trust it to be 100% safe.

 

[dluna]

I will check out the book and the link provided. Some of you have suggested speaking to a priest. We know many good priests, thank God for our clergy, but have not been close and comfy enough with one yet whom we want to share this with. Will pray about this.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

We agree that the Lord seems to have changed our minds somewhat from “total no to children” to "option of having children’. I sometimes pray that the Lord to please use me but not my womb, is this a wrong prayer? I fear childbirth and child rearing and don’t want to spend my time raising a child and spending time and resources on one. I know I sound selfish, I do really think I am.

There are good children, but there is so much bad influence everywhere in the city - consumerism, wants, demands, etc. These should not influence us but they have.

The top reasons I shared prior to having children is that husband and I both do not like babies and toddlers, and that even though they grow to be teenagers and adults, we don’t want to spend time and resources on them, given our hectic lifestyles. The other reason is that I fear pain and all the medical procedures that come with pregnancy and childbirth. I have not had a health check since 7 years ago because I cannot bear to be pricked with a needle to get a blood test done. I am in my early thirties and not had a pap smear or scope done at all too.

You mentioned that it sounded like there is more about us avoiding a baby. I’ve been pondering about this and the other reasons are such as:

• we don’t want a live-in maid to take care of our child should we have one but we both work full-time.
• husband is estranged from the non-catholic side of his family and thus, child will grow up without cousins and the support of a larger extended family
• I’ve been upfront with husband by telling him, that IF he wants a child, I will do my duty to provide one. However will he ever be supportive by helping with child-rearing and child-educating duties - ferrying child to classes, spending an hour of reading time or bonding time with child, spending time with other parents over child activities etc? He said no immediately. He wants his time to exclude such activities. He says he’s happy helping with catechism classes and choir at our parish now and whatever time left after house chores, he just wants to rest instead of dealing with a child. And I completely agree.

It’s a matter of faith. All those things you want to avoid are God’s gift to you and your spouse. To deny that, is to deny God’s truth. Children are hard but it’s the hard work of parenting that can sanctify us – if we allow it! Babies and toddlers are good for you. This is a fact. You don’t want to because you’d rather be selfish? Well you are not alone. Many feel the same. But so you want to do what makes you comfortable or do you want to submit to God’s truth. Remember Jesus’ words in his Sorrowful Passion. He didn’t say to be selfish and lead the hectic lifestyle that you want – He said to take up your cross. He said to give up your life. If you want to keep your life, you lose it. There’s a reason God designed it this way. It is for your own good. But you have to have faith. If you don’t have it, pray. Read the catechism and we are taught how to do this.

Also, you can take control of your own pregnancy and birth. I gave birth without anyone touching me. I didn’t have any poking or proding. No IV, no cervical checks. I gave birth in my own home with a midwife there just in case. She sat back and let me do my own thing. Our bodies were made to do this.

 

[dluna]

In any event, I would strongly recommend that this couple pray regularly about their repugnance for people who haven’t reached a certain age. To carry a prejudice against an entire class of persons is not the attitude of Heaven, but something to work on–particularly when one has a prejudice against children! They ought to meditate on this passage of Holy Scripture and ask themselves why they are rejected someone that Our Lord specifically called his disciples to welcome as if welcoming the Our Lord Himself as a guest:

He called a child over, placed it in their midst, and said, “Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me. Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! … See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father." Matt. 18:2-7, 10

The next time the OP couple sees some children, they need to think hard about what the Lord had to say in those passages, and challenge themselves about why they see children so very differently than their Lord and Savior sees them.

Thank you for the reminder. Appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut. This goes on in our heads all the time!

I used to think kids were the rudest, grossest, most unpleasant creatures on the planet. I mean, everything about kids disgusted me. But having your own does something to you. Imagine feeling a love for someone so titanic that you don’t care that they just threw-up in your hair. For the fourth time today. Pregnancy and delivery isn’t fun, and I’m someone who faints at everything, too. But once you hear that first tiny cry something stirs inside of you, and the pain becomes so small compared to the beautiful forever relationship you’ve formed. It’s hard to put into words how much richer my life has become thanks to welcoming children, and everything I used to think was important doesn’t seem very important anymore. Just a little (name removed by moderator)ut from someone who’s been there. But I respect your decision.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[justforme23]

We don’t like children. Before RCIA and witnessing the mighty hand of the Lord, we hated them to the core. We live in a country where children are raised as ill mannered brats and where the education level and standard of living are very, very high.

After accepting Christ, our hearts have been thawed to actually not hate them but we still do not want children because of lifestyle reasons (selfish reasons - we want our time to ourselves and would rather serve God in other ways.)

selfishness is a sin.
seems perfect justice, sinning what ever you do. Lol

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Yes, we would be happily having sex if it weren’t about the possibility of having children. But it is hard to even want to get our paws around each other now. We feel “holy” about our bodies now and the act of sex seems so foreign.

Yes, we’ve heard of NFP but don’t trust it to be 100% safe.

When you were contracepting were you 100 percent safe?

When I worked in my younger days at a grocery store almost every single one of my coworkers who “got pregnant” married or not was using ABC.

Once you really view sex within the Holiness of Marriage you will see that sex is the ultimate Holy act. One which God has commanded from the beginning.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OP

I am a guy. so you can take my advice in this post and throw it away if you wish. My wife and I used to teach NFP. I can tell you that it is quite effective. I can also tell you that you must realize that while your fear of childbirth may be very real to you it is illogical. From the dawn of time women have birthed children. And there are medical advances that make it quite manageable. My wife has given birth 4 times so far. With an epidural she has napped and slept through most of labor and then pushed pain free for about an average of 10 minutes a kid.

 

[EasterJoy]

Yes, we would be happily having sex if it weren’t about the possibility of having children. But it is hard to even want to get our paws around each other now. We feel “holy” about our bodies now and the act of sex seems so foreign.

Yes, we’ve heard of NFP but don’t trust it to be 100% safe.

You seem to have two or more things sort of mixed up in this. I wouldn’t wait to find a priest you are comfy with. Figure out who you are the most comfy with, go to him, and if you need to, keep looking. I mean keeping looking as you ideally would for a physician: not the one who makes you the most comfortable, although that is very important, but the one who seems to practice the care of souls the best and who will have the best luck in winning your compliance. With physicians of the soul as with every other kind of physician, both your willingness to be open and to comply and your resolve to see one in a timely manner are important. Do not be tempted to wait around for Fr. Perfect or the Perfect Time. Go soon.

I can tell this about you: You are serious about advancing in holiness. See a priest, and sort this out. Find the best guiding impulses in yourselves, and follow those, whether you feel like it initially or not. If it is God’s will, it will grow on you, because I can tell you mean to do what God asks. Even if it is never easy, it will grow on you. Trust, trust, trust–you can do it if you pray and trust! You want to do it, too, I can tell.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Well for one thing, NFP is no where near 100% effective.

I remember attending pre-cana with my now wife and they had this couple come in to talk about NFP. They admitted that they had a child when using said method to prevent pregnancy at the time. Not the greatest couple to bring in to talk about its effectiveness.

I always found the birth control argument interesting. Using artificial control methods such as a condom is a sin according to the Church. However, using NFP is OK.

Now using the murder argument. It is a sin if I kill someone. It is also a sin if I have someone commit the act of murder for me.

So in both cases, using a condom or NFP has the same intention, therefore they both according to Church teaching should be a sin.

Makes no sense to me whatsoever. Did not mean to hijack the thread, but it is related.

I think your view on NFP is tainted.

We went from a ABC contracepting couple, to an NFP contracepting couple to an NFP spacing couple to no NFP.

I can tell you that people who talk in pre cana classes will most likely have children. Because people who use NFP are generally more willing to discern a child than those who get in the habit of contracepting. And I can also tell you that an NFP failure is almost every single time the failure of the couple. Operator error so to speak. As an NFP instructor I had several couples who practiced NFP because of medical issues. Not “gee I don’t want to get pregnant right now issues” but life threatening medical issues. IT was these couples who proved to me the absolute effectiveness of NFP. Imagine if your wife would die if she became pregnant. Could you really trust a condom? But these couples NEVER had NFP failures. Because they never pushed the limits.

For them, NFP was the most trustworthy thing you could have.

I may have problems with NFP and how it is sold, and how it is used poorly by some couples. But I will go on record as saying it is quite effective. Way more effective than other ABCs. Go to your local wal mart, find all the single moms you can and poll them about birth control. Tons of them used ABC.

 

[justforme23]

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Saying that other kids in your country are brats is NO excuse for not having kids…if you dont want bratty kids then raise them to be respectable responsible moral human beings.

It sounds like you are slowly damaging your marriage…married couples are meant to have sex…by avoiding it you have killed off the feelings that god built into you both so that you would desire each other enough to have sex …its slowly killing your love for each other if you now think of each other more as brother and sister than husband and wife

It sounds like there is more going on than avoiding having a baby…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You seem to have two or more things sort of mixed up in this. I wouldn’t wait to find a priest you are comfy with. Figure out who you are the most comfy with, go to him, and if you need to, keep looking. I mean keeping looking as you ideally would for a physician: not the one who makes you the most comfortable, although that is very important, but the one who seems to practice the care of souls the best and who will have the best luck in winning your compliance. With physicians of the soul as with every other kind of physician, both your willingness to be open and to comply and your resolve to see one in a timely manner are important. Do not be tempted to wait around for Fr. Perfect or the Perfect Time. Go soon.

I can tell this about you: You are serious about advancing in holiness. See a priest, and sort this out. Find the best guiding impulses in yourselves, and follow those, whether you feel like it initially or not. If it is God’s will, it will grow on you, because I can tell you mean to do what God asks. Even if it is never easy, it will grow on you. Trust, trust, trust–you can do it if you pray and trust! You want to do it, too, I can tell.

I can tell that about the OP as well. And I want to commend her for it. It is quite refreshing to read an NFP question that is genuine and not some kind of troll or has an agenda behind it. This one seems to be quite genuine and open to discussion.
Now if we could just transfer that to the endless threads about homosexuality and marriage.

 

[justforme23]

justforme23:
Great reply.

 

[Cmc1972]

@ EasterJoy
Ok and thanks for the info , anyway , i do respect the couple’s choice

I’m not married or living together and also i don’t wanna have kids !!
I love my life , i love to live “alone” (my own choice)
And so i’m not qualified to give a solution

I will pray for you. Giving one self to God is the answer. Living alone for the purpose of being alone is selfish.

 

[EasterJoy]

@ EasterJoy
Ok and thanks for the info , anyway , i do respect the couple’s choice

I’m not married or living together and also i don’t wanna have kids !!
I love my life , i love to live “alone” (my own choice)
And so i’m not qualified to give a solution

Don’t sell yourself short. We don’t have to be exactly in the same shoes as someone else to give a point of view, particularly on matters of faith, where we often have to allow ourselves to be guided by the wisdom of the Church instead of today’s weather. Sometimes the people who aren’t where we are have a fresh perspective, right?

There is no sin in loving the soil you’re growing in and being the kind of creature you are today. Be willing to do what God asks, be ready to have the Lord give you the kind of radically awesome surprise that only the obedient ever get, but dare to be contented right where you are, too! That is just fine!!

 

[EasterJoy]

I will pray for you. Giving one self to God is the answer. Living alone for the purpose of being alone is selfish.

It is OK to be content to live alone, provided that you exert yourself for love of neighbor. St. Paul did say, after all, that those who never marry are more radically available to please God than those who do. If one is called to that, what is wrong with loving it? Nothing! It is no more wrong than being happy to have a wife and children instead of being a priest. If you are being what you ought to be instead of trying to be something that would be higher or more praiseworthy except for the minor issue that you have not been give the vocation to be in that state of life, you are still allowed to be happy where you are.

Notice that both Laurent LUG and the OP are willing to go without sexual relations in order to live out this call they think they might have. They are not trying to “have their cake and eat it, too”. We all need spiritual direction with regards to discerning our vocations, but they are OK liking a life not yet blessed with children. That is OK.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

OK I realise what I’m about to say will probably go against catholic teaching. While I respect that you believe God wants all to have fruitful marriages, please please please do not have a child until God has truly changed your heart on how you feel towards children…

Bringing a child into a family who has such contempt towards children, is not truly wanted and was only had out of a sense of “duty” will do immense psychological damage to that child.

I honestly do respect your beliefs as a catholic, I myself love children so will happily have plenty but I do think this belief is taken to the extreme of irresponsibility and idiocy by some catholics. Note I’m not referring to OP per se just advising and generalising. I think of a recent poster who had wanted to divorce and leave her husband since child 3 but still had two more children as it was Gods plan to have as many as necessary. This is stupidity. If you are in a loving relationship and will nurture and care for children, knock yourself out! The OP certainly seems to have the relationship, but please allow God to change your heart before you have kids, do not do it out of a sense of duty!

There are enough unwanted, psychological damaged children in the world, I don’t think we need anymore and it would be irresponsible to do so.