Husband and I not having sex because we don't want children.

[Hoosier_Daddy]

everything is 100 percent effective until it isn’t effective.

Brian Fantana: They’ve done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time.
[cheesy grin]
Ron Burgundy: That doesn’t make sense.

–Anchorman

Even abstinence has a fail rate. Ask Mary.

 

[bobcrawford]

Condoms are not 100 percent as you have stated. NFP is not 75 percent. The rhythm method is.

When you are refuted why do you continue to restate untrue things?

In my ABC days, I had several condoms break.

Refuted by what? Your claims? I posted a link about “Natural Family Planning” and its effectiveness as published by the United States Government that states - NFP - not the Rhythm method - can have as much as a 75% failure rate and as little as 1%.

Why do you continue to ignore it? Just because you make an argument does not mean you are right and the other person wrong.

This is why some people see the Catholic Church as so unwelcoming. Because people like you are in attack mode with positions on faith.

Did not our Pope say “who am I to judge?”

In my ABC days I never had a single condom break. But then again, since yours broke, there was a chance of conception just like NFP so you make my argument. Both would be morally acceptable.

 

[Memaw]

Seems silly to be married and be abstinence from marital relations. What’s the point of being married? Again, since the intent is to prevent pregnancy through abstinence, just as any method of birth control, then I would say it is sinful.

If they don’t want to have sex or children, seems like both should enter into religious service. Seems more appropriate since our Church now holds that you have to be celibate to be a priest, nun, brother, etc.

Always struggled with the Church’s positions on sex. Just don’t recall Jesus making a big deal of it anywhere in the Bible. Bible says be fruitful and multiply, Church says virginity and celibacy is good. Says sex in marriage good, but lays down law as to what is appropriate. Seems our Church has always had an unhealthy infatuation with sex. Is that what Jesus really intended? If it was, seems He would have mentioned it a lot more in the writings of the Bible.

What Jesus taught and what the Church teaches is very clear and beautiful, if one has ears to hear. God Bless. Memaw

 

[EasterJoy]

I am trying to. I have prayed about it. I feel so sick seeing a pram or baby items. My husband says he can’t imagine a life with children.

The fact that you are both willing to abstain completely may actually mean you have a call to a Josephite marriage. Do not punish yourself over this; there is nothing inherently wrong with abstaining from sex by mutual consent. Your feelings about becoming parents are so strong, I’d say it is a serious thing to work on before becoming parents. You ought to work on it, whether or not you do become parents, but don’t put the cart before the horse. You are renouncing two of the great goods of marriage, though, so it is good that you are willing to work on this. Work towards either not renouncing children and marital relations or else renouncing them from hearts that have also renounced the less praiseworthy reasons for doing so.

One step at a time! You might try just trying to see children as precious people, and your difficulty with their energy level or maturity level as something you need to work on in yourselves. Maybe you two had difficulties with other children when you were kids, and you need to work through that. Try seeing their parents as people who are willing to do work that you aren’t willing to do yourself, and work up an appreciation for them. When you get old and need care, it is their generosity that will have put people in the world to do it! At any rate, try to get over your unhappy prejudices, and go from there. For the time being, you are doing nothing wrong by abstaining from sex. To the end that your attitude needs improvement, well, we all have something like that. You will not get better by beating on yourself. Get better by trying to see children and their parents in a more positive light.

Do see a spiritual director, though. You are attempting something difficult to do in the long run, something that could cause regrets later on, and you should not go through it alone.

 

[Memaw]

everything is 100 percent effective until it isn’t effective.

–Anchorman

Even abstinence has a fail rate. Ask Mary.

Coming from a Catholic, that remark is not the least bit funny. I would consider it an insult to God and her. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Coming from a Catholic, that remark is not the least bit funny. I would consider it an insult to God and her. God Bless, Memaw

Perhaps “fail” was a bad word.


If I offended then I am sorry.

But the anchorman quote is funny… Especially when using qualifiers on this subject like “perfect use” and 100 percent…

 

[Memaw]

The fact that you are both willing to abstain completely may actually mean you have a call to a Josephite marriage. Do not punish yourself over this; there is nothing inherently wrong with abstaining from sex by mutual consent. Your feelings about becoming parents are so strong, I’d say it is a serious thing to work on before becoming parents. You ought to work on it, whether or not you do become parents, but don’t put the cart before the horse. You are renouncing two of the great goods of marriage, though, so it is good that you are willing to work on this. Work towards either not renouncing children and marital relations or else renouncing them from hearts that have also renounced the less praiseworthy reasons for doing so.

One step at a time! You might try just trying to see children as precious people, and your difficulty with their energy level or maturity level as something you need to work on in yourselves. Maybe you two had difficulties with other children when you were kids, and you need to work through that. Try seeing their parents as people who are willing to do work that you aren’t willing to do yourself, and work up an appreciation for them. When you get old and need care, it is their generosity that will have put people in the world to do it! At any rate, try to get over your unhappy prejudices, and go from there. For the time being, you are doing nothing wrong by abstaining from sex. To the end that your attitude needs improvement, well, we all have something like that. You will not get better by beating on yourself. Get better by trying to see children and their parents in a more positive light.

Do see a spiritual director, though. You are attempting something difficult to do in the long run, something that could cause regrets later on, and you should not go through it alone.

A Josephite Marriage is an entirely different situation. It is NOT done for selfish reasons or for reasons of dislike or hatred of children!!!, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Refuted by what? Your claims? I posted a link about “Natural Family Planning” and its effectiveness as published by the United States Government that states - NFP - not the Rhythm method - can have as much as a 75% failure rate and as little as 1%.

Why do you continue to ignore it? Just because you make an argument does not mean you are right and the other person wrong.

This is why some people see the Catholic Church as so unwelcoming. Because people like you are in attack mode with positions on faith.

Did not our Pope say “who am I to judge?”

In my ABC days I never had a single condom break. But then again, since yours broke, there was a chance of conception just like NFP so you make my argument. Both would be morally acceptable.

So, you think the Pope, when talking about same sex attraction has given the green light to follow whatever you want to ignoring the Church?

You will find many threads on here about NFP and ABC. You will also find many teachings in the faith you profess about the subject as well. You need not fight that battle on this thread. But feel free to start another thread proving the Church wrong. I’m not sure you will be successful though. I get it though, I too defended this exact position because of my pride and guilt.

Come to think of it, that is why anyone disagrees with the Church isn’t it?

 

[Memaw]

Sorry I don’t see it…using that logic, catholics should only have sex during the fertile period anyway because they know they won’t get pregnant other times. Having sex when you know you can’t get pregnant does not equal an intent to be procreative, it’s just sex.

But it leaves it open to God’s will. Doesn’t shut Him out of the Marriage act. Works with the way HE made our bodies. Nothing artificial. I think we should all not just read but really study Humanae Vitae. God Bless, Memaw

 

[bobcrawford]

What Jesus taught and what the Church teaches is very clear and beautiful, if one has ears to hear. God Bless. Memaw

What did Jesus teach on sexual relations? What did Jesus teach on homosexuality? What did Jesus teach on masturbation? What did Jesus teach on birth control?

I know what the Church tries to teach and sometimes it is clear and sometimes it is not. But most of the teaching is from people who are not supposed to be engaged in sexual acts.

However, I have never read where Jesus taught on these subjects so not sure how it can be so clear to you.

The only time I recall from Scripture was when Jesus told the woman prostitute to sin no more. But was He referring to the prostitution or other sins? That was the closest I can recall. So if it is so clear, please point me to the Biblical statements where His teachings are so clear.

 

[bobcrawford]

So, you think the Pope, when talking about same sex attraction has given the green light to follow whatever you want to ignoring the Church?

You will find many threads on here about NFP and ABC. You will also find many teachings in the faith you profess about the subject as well. You need not fight that battle on this thread. But feel free to start another thread proving the Church wrong. I’m not sure you will be successful though. I get it though, I too defended this exact position because of my pride and guilt.

Come to think of it, that is why anyone disagrees with the Church isn’t it?

Gee, don’t think I said that at all so please do not start creating something from nothing or at least try to.

The Church can never be wrong because it said it cannot.

It’s not pride or guilt the reason I question these statements but rather the conflicts in the Church’s own teachings.

I was also warned by a priest about the answers and arguments given here. He said you never know who is answering and what authority they have to speak for the Church.

Like the discussion I had with someone here years ago in talking about Popes and the papal wars. How could the Church justify wars and killing back then? The reply was that the Pope at that time was not the one conducting the war so it was no sin on his part.

Then the arguments about the worldwide abuse of children by clerics of the Church. The argument was that because those actions were not matters of faith, that the Church could be wrong in those instances, but not in matters of faith. Seems that people cannot see that one does impact the faith and trust in the other.

The only real trust can be in God.

 

[EasterJoy]

A Josephite Marriage is an entirely different situation. It is NOT done for selfish reasons or for reasons of dislike or hatred of children!!!, God Bless, Memaw

The OP said the couple would rather be free to serve God in other ways. If they believe they might have a call to a Josephite marriage, it is not for us to say that they’re wrong to abstain from having marital relations at all. Perhaps their heart is in the wrong place, but perhaps they have a mixture of motives. Perhaps they have a good motive and a good call, and the evil one is trying to poison it by magnifying a fear of parenthood. That does not mean they do not have a call.

I am sure their pastor would advise them to have regular spiritual direction if they choose to live in that manner, but this is discernment that is properly theirs. They should not be condemned for doing what they are doing, because they are not objectively violating any moral laws. It is possible they making allowable choices with bad motives, but we would have to be capable of reading hearts to know that. Therefore, we cannot accuse them of being selfish, but can only warn them that a Josephite marriage, like any other marriage, will not bear the fruit God intends if it is lived for self-centered reasons or in a self-centered way.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

What did Jesus teach on sexual relations? What did Jesus teach on homosexuality? What did Jesus teach on masturbation? What did Jesus teach on birth control?

I know what the Church tries to teach and sometimes it is clear and sometimes it is not. But most of the teaching is from people who are not supposed to be engaged in sexual acts.

However, I have never read where Jesus taught on these subjects so not sure how it can be so clear to you.

The only time I recall from Scripture was when Jesus told the woman prostitute to sin no more. But was He referring to the prostitution or other sins? That was the closest I can recall. So if it is so clear, please point me to the Biblical statements where His teachings are so clear.

So, in your personal theology you go by only the audible words of Jesus? You discount all other parts of the Bible, you discount the Holy spirit, the apostles and the Church. Ok. But how do you reconcile the very words of Jesus that gave authority to the Church?

It is a old and weak argument that the church is just full of old men who don’t know anything about sex. First off, as Catholics we believe the Holy Spirit, that is God Himself is guiding the Church. So in a way, Jesus DID say things outside of the Gospel accounts of his vocal words.

But, let’s take the Holy Spirit out of the equation for a minute and apply logic.
In the Catholic Church lies an institution that has contemplated, learned and dealt with the nature of man for 2000 years. The Church is also unique in that it’s authority figures get the advantage of hearing directly from mankind about his struggles in the confessional. Giving the Church a wealth of knowledge about sexual issues in not just yourself but billions of others. But it would seem that an individual such as yourself claims to know libido better than all of that knowledge that the Church has gained? The Church can and does indeed guide and rule on this. Jesus Himself gave the power to bind and loose my friend, and since it says “Catholic” by your name you affirm with an “Amen” when you receive the Body and Blood of our Lord that you are indeed a child in this Church of God. Why on earth would you think the Pope meant “who am I to judge” the way you are applying it? That would mean no one could judge any act at all.

Including child porn. I do not recall Jesus addressing that issue directly either.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Gee, don’t think I said that at all so please do not start creating something from nothing or at least try to.

The Church can never be wrong because it said it cannot.

It’s not pride or guilt the reason I question these statements but rather the conflicts in the Church’s own teachings.

I was also warned by a priest about the answers and arguments given here. He said you never know who is answering and what authority they have to speak for the Church.

Like the discussion I had with someone here years ago in talking about Popes and the papal wars. How could the Church justify wars and killing back then? The reply was that the Pope at that time was not the one conducting the war so it was no sin on his part.

Then the arguments about the worldwide abuse of children by clerics of the Church. The argument was that because those actions were not matters of faith, that the Church could be wrong in those instances, but not in matters of faith. Seems that people cannot see that one does impact the faith and trust in the other.

The only real trust can be in God.

Sounds like you have several issues. If you do not think CAF is a good place for information and your priest speaks with the Authority of the Church, then by all means, you do not need to cause harm to yourself by engaging in the forums.

I find your logic hard to follow. I am not perfect, but I cannot see your point. Sorry.

 

[Memaw]

What did Jesus teach on sexual relations? What did Jesus teach on homosexuality? What did Jesus teach on masturbation? What did Jesus teach on birth control?

I know what the Church tries to teach and sometimes it is clear and sometimes it is not. But most of the teaching is from people who are not supposed to be engaged in sexual acts.

However, I have never read where Jesus taught on these subjects so not sure how it can be so clear to you.

The only time I recall from Scripture was when Jesus told the woman prostitute to sin no more. But was He referring to the prostitution or other sins? That was the closest I can recall. So if it is so clear, please point me to the Biblical statements where His teachings are so clear.

You need to talk to a priest!! Ask him all these questions. It’s all in the Bible and the teaching Magisterium of the Church. You can’t possibly believe that Jesus condons all of the above. God Bless. Memaw

 

[EasterJoy]

What did Jesus teach on sexual relations? What did Jesus teach on homosexuality? What did Jesus teach on masturbation? What did Jesus teach on birth control?

I know what the Church tries to teach and sometimes it is clear and sometimes it is not. But most of the teaching is from people who are not supposed to be engaged in sexual acts.

However, I have never read where Jesus taught on these subjects so not sure how it can be so clear to you.

The only time I recall from Scripture was when Jesus told the woman prostitute to sin no more. But was He referring to the prostitution or other sins? That was the closest I can recall. So if it is so clear, please point me to the Biblical statements where His teachings are so clear.

Jesus gave teaching authority and the authority to discern moral law to his Apostles, and that authority has been passed down by Apostolic succession. That is why the Church’s teaching on sexual morality is every bit as binding and every bit as clear as every other Church teaching on every other kind of morality.

If you don’t believe that or if you are fooling yourself into using the gift of celibacy as some rationale to excuse yourself from what bishops have to say about sexual morality, you are refusing a cornerstone of the Catholic faith. What, do you also believe the Church has no authority to teach about business dealings, because she is a non-profit? How much did Jesus really have to say about handling money and running a store, after all? Do you believe she has no authority to teach about political morality because she is not a democracy? Does she have no authority to teach on war, since bishops and priests do not bear arms? Can women feel free to ignore everything the Church teaches, because of course everyone in the Magisterium is a man? How about the poor? Shall they ignore the teachings of the Church, because the bishops see to it that they and the priests have enough to eat and electricity and roofs over their heads? Which of our brothers or sisters actually walks in our exact shoes, so that they could have authority to correct us? Where does this kind of thinking end?

 

[Memaw]

a Josephite marriage, like any other marriage, will not bear the fruit God intends if it is lived for self-centered reasons or in a self-centered way.

By golly, isn’t that what I just said??? It’s not a Josephite Marriage if it’s done for selfish reasons such as she (OP) stated herself. God Bless, Memaw

 

[bobcrawford]

You need to talk to a priest!! Ask him all these questions. It’s all in the Bible and the teaching Magisterium of the Church. You can’t possibly believe that Jesus condons all of the above. God Bless. Memaw

Talk to a priest? Where do priests today have time to talk to parishioners? Some parishes do not even have a single priest and have to share. The church closest to me has one priest for over 2,000 families. Multiply that times the average number in the family and maybe you are talking about 6,000 people. Then out of those 6,000 people, there are probably 2,000 having issues of faith, morality, adultery, etc. and you think a priest has time to have discussions on matters of faith? Hah!

Without getting too specific, one family members are experiencing lack of faith because of an adulterous spouse; another has a a real hate for the cheating spouse, the faithful spouse cannot understand why God would let this happen to her and her children and is having a crisis of faith right now.

One of my parents left the Church because of the child abuse that was so widespread. The reason being is that my parent saw the Church leadership as a good-old-boys club that protected one another instead of protecting the children.

As for children, Catholic education is fast becoming something only the very rich can afford. Not enough priests and nuns to educate them at a reasonable cost.

I could go on and on. But maybe you’ll get the point. We’re one family in a parish of thousands. Everyone has a cross to bear in life and some need help more than others. The facts are that our priests are few and the troubles, questions and need for help are numerous.

So getting answers is nearly impossible. So if the Church is being guided by the Holy Spirit, well it is hard to see. Maybe the Church has become so corrupt and lost its way that the Holy Spirit has even left it. Just like I feel the priests have left us.

Hey, but you are all right and I am wrong. I’ll just continue on as before. No wonder so many are leaving the Church for other Christian faiths where they feel more welcomed and supported.

Peace all.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Talk to a priest? Where do priests today have time to talk to parishioners? Some parishes do not even have a single priest and have to share. The church closest to me has one priest for over 2,000 families. Multiply that times the average number in the family and maybe you are talking about 6,000 people. Then out of those 6,000 people, there are probably 2,000 having issues of faith, morality, adultery, etc. and you think a priest has time to have discussions on matters of faith? Hah!

Without getting too specific, one family members are experiencing lack of faith because of an adulterous spouse; another has a a real hate for the cheating spouse, the faithful spouse cannot understand why God would let this happen to her and her children and is having a crisis of faith right now.

One of my parents left the Church because of the child abuse that was so widespread. The reason being is that my parent saw the Church leadership as a good-old-boys club that protected one another instead of protecting the children.

As for children, Catholic education is fast becoming something only the very rich can afford. Not enough priests and nuns to educate them at a reasonable cost.

I could go on and on. But maybe you’ll get the point. We’re one family in a parish of thousands. Everyone has a cross to bear in life and some need help more than others. The facts are that our priests are few and the troubles, questions and need for help are numerous.

So getting answers is nearly impossible. So if the Church is being guided by the Holy Spirit, well it is hard to see. Maybe the Church has become so corrupt and lost its way that the Holy Spirit has even left it. Just like I feel the priests have left us.

Hey, but you are all right and I am wrong. I’ll just continue on as before. No wonder so many are leaving the Church for other Christian faiths where they feel more welcomed and supported.

Peace all.

Forgive me, but you sound like you are having a crisis of faith yourself?

 

[tawny]

My husband and I recently got baptized into the Catholic faith. We realized that the use of contraception is a sin. But because we don’t want children, we decided not to have sex. Is this still wrong and sinful?

We are coping pretty well after a year of no-sex. My husband is very active at Church while I read the Bible daily, trying to know God better. We’ve talked about this lately and we agree that even if we want children later on, it seems quite impossible to be “lustful” with each other as we seem incapable of sexual or lustful thoughts now.

I guess I am just asking if there are others like us, who now find themselves incapable of sex and who live with their spouses like brothers and sisters? My husband and I love each other very much and often pray that we can leave together as we are quite inseparable.

You should discuss this situation with your priest.