Husband and I not having sex because we don't want children.

[GreyWings]

This may have already been posted so I apologize if there’s a redundancy:

Catholic Catechism: see 2360 and 2361

It’s one thing to be single and do God’s work as a single person; look at those who join the vocation do this very thing in the most honorable way. But married persons are bound together as one, so to live a sexless marriage isn’t to be.

God bless,

GreyWings

 

[dluna]

dluna, did you ever manage to read the book A Severe Mercy by Sheldon Vanauken? I mentioned it to you when you originally posted last year. It is a wonderful true account of transforming and conforming love to Christ. I would so highly recommend it because you and your husband sound quite like that couple.

Am sorry if I keep responding at odd hours. I am replying from the other side of the world. I don’t have the book available here. I may have to ship from Amazon. I’d ask my husband to help purchase it.

 

[dluna]

Very true

Even without children, our hands are full. I do think if I do not have children, I can help so many more. Oh well… it’s up to God if we are barren or not.

 

[bjess8411]

My husband and I recently got baptized into the Catholic faith. We realized that the use of contraception is a sin. But because we don’t want children, we decided not to have sex. Is this still wrong and sinful?

We are coping pretty well after a year of no-sex. .

Hi, I don’t think you can know you don’t like children until you have one of your own. I used to dislike children before I got married and I did not want to have any children. God worked in husband and my hearts though and I felt like I wanted to allow God to give us a baby if he wanted shortly after we got married. Ever since I have been against birth control. After I had my own child my opinion totally changed on kids and now I really like them and think they are precious. It grieves me that people don’t want to have more kids after they have one or two.

Oh, and my husband and I have gone through the no sex thing, not because we don’t want children, but because I have a problem overeating and am extremely overweight so it causes sexual intercourse to be a problem. I am trying to work on it and eat less and go to the gym, but we still can’t have sex right now. I have to say that no sex totally changes the dynamic of a marriage. I am much more sensitive and loving to my husband even when we just cuddle and do what we can than when we do nothing. We are more likely to argue and fight now than before this happened. I start feeling neglected emotionally and physically because our sex life is so limited. It really fulfills emotional and physical needs to have a healthy Christian sex life. My point is that you should definitely reconsider that because it is likely to end badly. Even Paul talks about how you can be led astray by not having sex in marriage because of your lack of self-control and that it is a duty to fulfill your marital vows. I could use prayers as well given I am in a bad situation with my husband.

Oh, I also wanted to add that I now consider my son’s birth to be one of the best, if not the best, days of my life. I love him so, so much.

 

[bjess8411]

I think you are wrong. It is a sin not to have sexual relations in marriage if you are able to have sexual relations. Paul explicitly says this here

1 Corinthians 7:3-6 : From the apostle Paul to the Corinthians, The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control

 

[bjess8411]

We agree that the Lord seems to have changed our minds somewhat from “total no to children” to "option of having children’. I sometimes pray that the Lord to please use me but not my womb, is this a wrong prayer? I fear childbirth and child rearing and don’t want to spend my time raising a child and spending time and resources on one. I know I sound selfish, I do really think I am.

.

The first part is great. I love how the Lord can work. The second part is a part of being a woman. I think every woman fears pain and childbirth. The Bible says that women are saved in those things though, which I take to mean purified and able to handle something like martyrdom if required. They are also accepting a child which Jesus said brings blessing.

I was totally afraid of pain and to give birth, but surprisingly God allowed me to need a C-section so I wouldn’t have to go through a vaginal birth. There was still a little pain but nothing I could not handle. I was one of those who would throw up at the thought of a needle as well, but now I’m not. Also, if you do have a vaginal birth now there are means of combatting pain in childbirth like an epidural. I don’t think it is a sin to use one if you need it to calm down. God gives a woman such a high in the childbirth process as well. I felt so proud of myself for going through a long labor and felt like I could handle anything after the fact. I even wished I could go through childbirth more often!

 

[bjess8411]

OK I realise what I’m about to say will probably go against catholic teaching. While I respect that you believe God wants all to have fruitful marriages, please please please do not have a child until God has truly changed your heart on how you feel towards children…

Bringing a child into a family who has such contempt towards children, is not truly wanted and was only had out of a sense of “duty” will do immense psychological damage to that child.

I honestly do respect your beliefs as a catholic, I myself love children so will happily have plenty but I do think this belief is taken to the extreme of irresponsibility and idiocy by some catholics. Note I’m not referring to OP per se just advising and generalising. I think of a recent poster who had wanted to divorce and leave her husband since child 3 but still had two more children as it was Gods plan to have as many as necessary. This is stupidity. If you are in a loving relationship and will nurture and care for children, knock yourself out! The OP certainly seems to have the relationship, but please allow God to change your heart before you have kids, do not do it out of a sense of duty!

There are enough unwanted, psychological damaged children in the world, I don’t think we need anymore and it would be irresponsible to do so.

My mom didn’t like children before she had me, but after she had me her heart totally changed and I ultimately led her and my dad to the Lord. I was the same way. I did not like children but then I had my son and my heart totally changed. Sometimes the only thing that will change your heart is being thrown in the fire so to speak.

 

[Memaw]

Hmmm… interesting. I realize there’s been some updates, but still, my two cents here…

From what I gather, it’s not moral to marry and not have sex for the purpose of not having children. The reason why, is because it’s one of the canon reasons to annul a marriage, is the avoidance of having children.

Children are wonderful. They’re not “brats.” The definition of brat is an ill-mannered child, and as a parent you would be responsible for teaching them to not be a brat.

Sex is a gift from God, for the purpose of married life. I wish you happiness in your marriage. And I hope you and your husband can now unite. You are after all, as husband and wife, one body and one flesh.

I find myself VERY skeptical of the whole thing. Sounds like someones imagination got away with them. God Bless, Memaw

 

[bjess8411]

Then I stand corrected. But it does not change the argument much. According to our own government:

“Of 100 couples who use natural family planning methods each year, anywhere from 1 to 25 will become pregnant. Natural family planning can be an effective type of birth control if all three methods are used and if all are always used correctly.”

That is still up to the 25% failure rate I stated previously.

hhs.gov/opa/pdfs/natural-family-planning-fact-sheet.pdf

My points are two-fold, no method is 100% effective at preventing pregnancy, though I have never heard or read where anyone got pregnant from using a latex condom that did not break.

Given that point, since there is always a chance that someone can get pregnant using natural or artificial methods of pregnancy prevention, I don’t see how a condom or NFP can be morally wrong.

So to this couple who are not having sex because they do not want to have children, how can some artificial methods be morally wrong if the possibility of pregnancy always exists?

You know, I don’t think God will give you more kids than you an handle. He hasn’t with me and even in the Bible the average child rate was probably 3 to 5 kids. It was very rare to have 10 kids or more. I don’t think NFP is a sin or condoms, but I am not Catholic. I think it is more of a sin according to the bible to not have sex than use contraception that is non-abortificient. And more of a sin if you use ABC that cause abortions rather than being open to life.

The ideal is probably no birth control because God says children are a blessing and he commands sex in marriage and will not give us more than we can handle. The funny thing is people don’t believe that! My husband and I are poor and people have suggested that I use ABC. I always resisted because it felt wrong and I do not want to harm life. God has been with us though and not given us more children than we can handle and I never wanted children. We only have 1! God can be trusted.

 

[bjess8411]

The fact that you are both willing to abstain completely may actually mean you have a call to a Josephite marriage. Do not punish yourself over this; there is nothing inherently wrong with abstaining from sex by mutual consent. Your feelings about becoming parents are so strong, I’d say it is a serious thing to work on before becoming parents. You ought to work on it, whether or not you do become parents, but don’t put the cart before the horse. You are renouncing two of the great goods of marriage, though, so it is good that you are willing to work on this. Work towards either not renouncing children and marital relations or else renouncing them from hearts that have also renounced the less praiseworthy reasons for doing so.

One step at a time! You might try just trying to see children as precious people, and your difficulty with their energy level or maturity level as something you need to work on in yourselves. Maybe you two had difficulties with other children when you were kids, and you need to work through that. Try seeing their parents as people who are willing to do work that you aren’t willing to do yourself, and work up an appreciation for them. When you get old and need care, it is their generosity that will have put people in the world to do it! At any rate, try to get over your unhappy prejudices, and go from there. For the time being, you are doing nothing wrong by abstaining from sex. To the end that your attitude needs improvement, well, we all have something like that. You will not get better by beating on yourself. Get better by trying to see children and their parents in a more positive light.

Do see a spiritual director, though. You are attempting something difficult to do in the long run, something that could cause regrets later on, and you should not go through it alone.

This may be rude but I was just thinking OP if you are not even open to children or the possibility of having your own children, how can you be open and loving towards other human beings in general? Jesus said evangelism begins in Judea, where we are with the people we know, and then extends beyond that. Most godly women have a motherly touch. How can you have that if you hate children? I don’t know, but that just shows a hard attitude towards the life of others. I am not perfect and I am not exactly a motherly figure either, but I know having my son has helped soften my heart tremendously. I used to be a much more unpleasant person to be around!

Another question what do you plan on doing with your life apart from children? Is it godly and full of good works? What do you want to do with your life instead?

 

[bjess8411]

What did Jesus teach on sexual relations? What did Jesus teach on homosexuality? What did Jesus teach on masturbation? What did Jesus teach on birth control?

I know what the Church tries to teach and sometimes it is clear and sometimes it is not. But most of the teaching is from people who are not supposed to be engaged in sexual acts.

However, I have never read where Jesus taught on these subjects so not sure how it can be so clear to you.

The only time I recall from Scripture was when Jesus told the woman prostitute to sin no more. But was He referring to the prostitution or other sins? That was the closest I can recall. So if it is so clear, please point me to the Biblical statements where His teachings are so clear.

Jesus spoke of marriage and what it was supposed to be when he said, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. All through scripture marriage is between a man and a woman. Paul talks about homosexuality in Romans 1. There is also a passage in Leviticus that denounces homosexuality. Birth control is touched on because God is said to not give us more than we can handle, that children are a blessing, and children should be accepted and loved. We are also not to kill or murder, especially the innocent. Masurbation, from personal experience, on a daily basis causes more lust and desire for sex which makes it even harder to stay sexually pure. That is probably the subject that is the most vague in scripture, but it does say to flee sexual sin.

 

[dluna]

Hi, I don’t think you can know you don’t like children until you have one of your own. I used to dislike children before I got married and I did not want to have any children. God worked in husband and my hearts though and I felt like I wanted to allow God to give us a baby if he wanted shortly after we got married. Ever since I have been against birth control. After I had my own child my opinion totally changed on kids and now I really like them and think they are precious. It grieves me that people don’t want to have more kids after they have one or two.

Oh, and my husband and I have gone through the no sex thing, not because we don’t want children, but because I have a problem overeating and am extremely overweight so it causes sexual intercourse to be a problem. I am trying to work on it and eat less and go to the gym, but we still can’t have sex right now. I have to say that no sex totally changes the dynamic of a marriage. I am much more sensitive and loving to my husband even when we just cuddle and do what we can than when we do nothing. We are more likely to argue and fight now than before this happened. I start feeling neglected emotionally and physically because our sex life is so limited. It really fulfills emotional and physical needs to have a healthy Christian sex life. My point is that you should definitely reconsider that because it is likely to end badly. Even Paul talks about how you can be led astray by not having sex in marriage because of your lack of self-control and that it is a duty to fulfill your marital vows. I could use prayers as well given I am in a bad situation with my husband.

Oh, I also wanted to add that I now consider my son’s birth to be one of the best, if not the best, days of my life. I love him so, so much.

I am so sorry for this late responses. I have had a crazy 2-week at work. My company bought another over, we merged and things were… simply very hectic for me due to all the business alignment. Anyway, yes, I want to be open to think that I cannot possibly hate children without having one myself. That was me over a year ago. I do enjoy little ones now. I’ve mentioned in the previous post that the Lord seems to be thawing both our hearts to like and endear to children.

It’s not a sin to NOT want to have sex with your spouse, as long as it is mutual consent and agreement. We’ve spoken with a priest who also confirmed that.

By the way, our marriage grew a lot stronger and we are more loving than ever than when we used to have sex before we converted to Catholicism. So my situation is different from yours.

 

[dluna]

I find myself VERY skeptical of the whole thing. Sounds like someones imagination got away with them. God Bless, Memaw

Actually, I should be offended by your post if you meant that my entire thread is fake. I started this thread more than a year ago to gather support and advice, and I came back more than a year later to update. God bless.

 

[dluna]

This may be rude but I was just thinking OP if you are not even open to children or the possibility of having your own children, how can you be open and loving towards other human beings in general? Jesus said evangelism begins in Judea, where we are with the people we know, and then extends beyond that. Most godly women have a motherly touch. How can you have that if you hate children? I don’t know, but that just shows a hard attitude towards the life of others. I am not perfect and I am not exactly a motherly figure either, but I know having my son has helped soften my heart tremendously. I used to be a much more unpleasant person to be around!

Another question what do you plan on doing with your life apart from children? Is it godly and full of good works? What do you want to do with your life instead?

I don’t think you are rude. Thanks for taking the time to read about this.

The Lord has done wonderful things. As I have said in my “return to Catholic Forums” post, I updated that both my husband and I are all right with children now, in fact, He led us both to two different ministries that involve helping children.

I think my life is pretty good and awesome. I help at a Catholic missionary, proclaiming the Kingdom of God and sharing His word with non-Christian kids. I am so thankful for this opportunity. I donate a lot, privately and anonymously, to Catholic and non-Catholic organisations. After work and dinner, I read Scripture or a book by the Saints or Doctors of the Church, and then follow up with a rosary prayer. My intentions are always the same: 1) Strength, courage and help for persecuted Christians around the world. 2) More priestly vocations for the Roman Catholic Church around the world 3) Wisdom and Compassion for myself and then other prayers for the sick whom I know.

As for my husband, he also works full-time and travels 45 minutes each way to Church 4 times a week for his ministries. He is worship leader for our parish’s Charismatic Prayer Group, and a catechist for 14-year-old children. Both of us use social media actively to share and proclaim God’s word and wonderful works every day. We are so thankful that we have been picked to be His children. Before baptism, life was good but pointless. Now, life is simply awesome when it is lived in His light.

We don’t even think about sex, obviously now. There is no room for lust in our lives right now. I am devoting more time to pray about this.

 

[GreyWings]

We don’t even think about sex, obviously now. There is no room for lust in our lives right now. I am devoting more time to pray about this.

Not for nothing, and with all due respect, but desire, not lust, is what’s between a husband and wife regarding Holy Matrimony… Pope John Paul II wrote many inspiring words in his letters about love between a husband and wife.

I wish you well… are you happy, though, being in a sexless marriage? I wish you happiness. And mind you, no judgment at all from me, just genuine care and concern.

 

[Luvz2travel]

I’m not big on kids these days myself. I mean babies mostly. I watched babies from the time I was seven till I was 19. So I’ve had my fill. The last baby I dealt with was my sister who is now 30 something. I imagine this might change if I had one of my own but that’s not likely. I do like older children 4 and up. I don’t know why you have a total aversion to children though. I can understand the childbirth part I was always willing to part with that part of the process and just adopt. Maybe before you swear off kids completely expose yourself to them a little more and in a more relaxed setting. kids are many times the product of their parents so if they are rude brats their parents raised them that way. That’s something you can avoid in your own children by being loving but strict and not caving in to all their desires or trying to be their friend and not their parent. I was raised old school though. If you talked back to my mom you got slapped. It only took once. If you backed talked my dad you got spanked again it was another time and it was very common to spank kids. My dad and mom used to get switched in their time.

 

[spunjalebi]

I read this thread and couldn’t believe my eyes.

In Catholicism, marriage is THE place where it’s acceptable and encouraged to have sexual intercourse. Marriage is the ONLY place where it’s okay to have children. Why get married if you don’t want to have sex? What’s the point in creating that bond if it’s not solidified with the physical?

Of course this is my opinion, but you two may have chosen the wrong vocation. Call me rude if you want, you posted about this here and I’m responding. The call to single spiritual layperson or as a nun would have been more appropriate.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

I read this thread and couldn’t believe my eyes.

In Catholicism, marriage is THE place where it’s acceptable and encouraged to have sexual intercourse. Marriage is the ONLY place where it’s okay to have children. Why get married if you don’t want to have sex? What’s the point in creating that bond if it’s not solidified with the physical?

Of course this is my opinion, but you two may have chosen the wrong vocation. Call me rude if you want, you posted about this here and I’m responding. The call to single spiritual layperson or as a nun would have been more appropriate.

Well, your first and second sentences aren’t necessarily compatible. One might wholeheartedly love another person of the opposite sex–sexually and otherwise–and yet be repelled by the idea of children. Problem is, Catholic teaching doesn’t seem to allow that these two sentiments can possibly coexist in the same person, and doesn’t have much of anything to say to such a person.

Worse, as your post seems to suggest, Catholic teaching doesn’t have anything to say to an orthodox, well-meaning Catholic who tries to square this particular circle while staying faithful to Church teachings.

 

[Rau]

Well, your first and second sentences aren’t necessarily compatible. One might wholeheartedly love another person of the opposite sex–sexually and otherwise–and yet be repelled by the idea of children. Problem is, Catholic teaching doesn’t seem to allow that these two sentiments can possibly coexist in the same person, and doesn’t have much of anything to say to such a person.

Worse, as your post seems to suggest, Catholic teaching doesn’t have anything to say to an orthodox, well-meaning Catholic who tries to square this particular circle while staying faithful to Church teachings.

Catholic teaching requires that if you marry, then you must be and remain open to children. If that is not the case, then it says “do not marry”. Nothing in teaching denies the possibility that one may love another, and desire sex, yet not desire children. If that latter lack of desire leads to a firm rejection of children, then marriage is not appropriate.

Teaching is clear about the circumstances under which the sexual relationship of marriage is appropriate. So, yes, if the conditions are not met, then any sexual relationship will likely be illicit.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Well, your first and second sentences aren’t necessarily compatible. One might wholeheartedly love another person of the opposite sex–sexually and otherwise–and yet be repelled by the idea of children. Problem is, Catholic teaching doesn’t seem to allow that these two sentiments can possibly coexist in the same person, and doesn’t have much of anything to say to such a person.

Worse, as your post seems to suggest, Catholic teaching doesn’t have anything to say to an orthodox, well-meaning Catholic who tries to square this particular circle while staying faithful to Church teachings.

Your post embodies the secular confusion and redefinition of what “marriage” is these days.

And it is not an uncommon view.