Husband is turning my eldest child into an atheist

[minkymurph]

In ways I think I’m lucky, and in ways not so lucky. I was brought up a JW and am a convert to Catholicism. My husband was brought up Protestant, but dislikes organized religion intensely, and says he doesn’t believe in God. I’m lucky in the sense my husband agreed my children could be baptized, brought up Catholic and go to a Catholic school. My in-laws were furious my kids were baptized Catholic and wouldn’t come to the baptism, and were furious they were going to be brought up Catholic and go to a Catholic school. I have to say, my husband laid it down to them and not me.

He let me have my way until recently. My eldest son is now 10 and a real ‘daddies boy.’ My younger son is 8 and he is very much ‘mummy’s boy’ and so will probably go with everything I say. My husband has now started saying things like, ‘God doesn’t exist’ and when anything is mentioned about religion, he says it’s none of it is true and being a ‘daddies boy,’ my eldest son is going with the flow saying he agrees with him. In the past, my husband would have insisted my kids go to Mass with me. I don’t think it was for any religious reason, he just liked to get the house to himself on Sunday morning. However, my eldest son doesn’t want to go to Mass, he would rather stay home with daddy and my husband no longer discourages him.

Being raised JW, I’ve always been reluctant to force religion on my kids because I don’t want to turn them against it. In the past this did not seem to be a problem. However, now I am concerned Is my eldest son has little regard for the Catholic faith that I have tried hard to hand on to him, and I have no one to back me up. He appears to be influenced by his peers and his dad more than me. Is this simply a phase he will grow out of?

 

[heart4home]

Have you talked to your husband about this? I’d start there, reminding him that he agreed to let you have the children baptized and raised Catholic. While of course an atheist isn’t going to likely be upset about not keeping the promise he made to God, if you have a solid marriage he should care about going back on his word to you.

Honestly, if your husband doesn’t support you on this, it is unlikely that this will be a short phase or that your son will change his mind anytime soon, especially since he relates strongly with his dad.

Obviously later in life, he may return to a faith, but considering his grandparents are protestant, his dad is atheist, he may not return to the Catholic faith on his own. With God anything is possible, but again under the circumstances I wouldn’t just consider this a phase.

Start with a heart to heart with your husband.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

In ways I think I’m lucky, and in ways not so lucky. I was brought up a JW and am a convert to Catholicism. My husband was brought up Protestant, but dislikes organized religion intensely, and says he doesn’t believe in God. I’m lucky in the sense my husband agreed my children could be baptized, brought up Catholic and go to a Catholic school. My in-laws were furious my kids were baptized Catholic and wouldn’t come to the baptism, and were furious they were going to be brought up Catholic and go to a Catholic school. I have to say, my husband laid it down to them and not me.

He let me have my way until recently. My eldest son is now 10 and a real ‘daddies boy.’ My younger son is 8 and he is very much ‘mummy’s boy’ and so will probably go with everything I say. My husband has now started saying things like, ‘God doesn’t exist’ and when anything is mentioned about religion, he says it’s none of it is true and being a ‘daddies boy,’ my eldest son is going with the flow saying he agrees with him. In the past, my husband would have insisted my kids go to Mass with me. I don’t think it was for any religious reason, he just liked to get the house to himself on Sunday morning. However, my eldest son doesn’t want to go to Mass, he would rather stay home with daddy and my husband no longer discourages him.

Being raised JW, I’ve always been reluctant to force religion on my kids because I don’t want to turn them against it. In the past this did not seem to be a problem. However, now I am concerned Is my eldest son has little regard for the Catholic faith that I have tried hard to hand on to him, and I have no one to back me up. He appears to be influenced by his peers and his dad more than me. Is this simply a phase he will grow out of?

Unfortunately, it isn’t usually a phase that children grow out of, if they have a parent who actively destroys their faith as they grow up. It is the father’s actions that influence the children’s faith, more than the mother’s, as a rule. Statistics show that even if the mother is devout, if the father is atheistic, chances are very high that the children will also be atheist. I think it is next to impossible to build faith when your own parent is tearing it down quicker than you can build it. At 10, your son barely understands anything about the Church or God, and here is his beloved Daddy saying God doesn’t even exist! How can he dare to go against what Daddy believes? He cannot.

Tell your husband he is breaking his promise to allow the children to be raised in the Catholic faith. He may not care, but HE is causing what is certain to be a lot of future pain in your son’s life.

Did your son receive his First Eucharist?

 

[faithfully]

Your husband promised you to allow the children to be brought up in the Church.

IMO, this means that he doesn’t say anything contrary to that.

I would very plainly explain to my husband that I always thought him a man of his word. And I fully expect him to honor his own word. Otherwise, I can see how I would lose every ounce of respect for him as a man.

Men that don’t keep their word are not trustworthy on any level. And that’s how I’d let my husband know he looks in my eyes.

 

[minkymurph]

Have you talked to your husband about this? I’d start there, reminding him that he agreed to let you have the children baptized and raised Catholic. While of course an atheist isn’t going to likely be upset about not keeping the promise he made to God, if you have a solid marriage he should care about going back on his word to you.

Honestly, if your husband doesn’t support you on this, it is unlikely that this will be a short phase or that your son will change his mind anytime soon, especially since he relates strongly with his dad.

Obviously later in life, he may return to a faith, but considering his grandparents are protestant, his dad is atheist, he may not return to the Catholic faith on his own. With God anything is possible, but again under the circumstances I wouldn’t just consider this a phase.

Start with a heart to heart with your husband.

I think I do need to make my feelings known to my husband. I have tried to do it diplomatically. Perhaps diplomacy is not working.

 

[minkymurph]

Your husband promised you to allow the children to be brought up in the Church.

IMO, this means that he doesn’t say anything contrary to that.

I would very plainly explain to my husband that I always thought him a man of his word. And I fully expect him to honor his own word. Otherwise, I can see how I would lose every ounce of respect for him as a man.

Men that don’t keep their word are not trustworthy on any level. And that’s how I’d let my husband know he looks in my eyes.

Unfortunately my husbands argument is he didn’t make any promises, I did. However, he did consent to let me bring them up Catholic, so he shouldn’t tear it down.

 

[minkymurph]

Unfortunately, it isn’t usually a phase that children grow out of, if they have a parent who actively destroys their faith as they grow up. It is the father’s actions that influence the children’s faith, more than the mother’s, as a rule. Statistics show that even if the mother is devout, if the father is atheistic, chances are very high that the children will also be atheist. I think it is next to impossible to build faith when your own parent is tearing it down quicker than you can build it. At 10, your son barely understands anything about the Church or God, and here is his beloved Daddy saying God doesn’t even exist! How can he dare to go against what Daddy believes? He cannot.

Tell your husband he is breaking his promise to allow the children to be raised in the Catholic faith. He may not care, but HE is causing what is certain to be a lot of future pain in your son’s life.

Did your son receive his First Eucharist?

Yes, he did. My son attends a Catholic school and in my part of the world, all the preparation for sacraments are done in school and the school arranges everything. That does not mean parents are not involved, they are. They have a special service for children making their first penance and receiving First Eucharist in the school. They receive a certificate and the priest comes for a short service. Both parent and child sign the certificate. On the certificate it says the parent promises to prepare the child and the child also promises they will prepare. At this service, child and parent bless each other with holy water. My husband consented to attend this service. It’s the first time he’s ever been at anything like that. He went because my son asked him to. He was disappointed his daddy couldn’t give him the blessing.

I appreciate what your saying about the chances being high of a child being atheistic if the parent is. The one thing I have on my side is families in my part of the world tend to be very matriarchal. To this day, there are families that all live near the mother, are in and out of the mothers house and have Sunday dinner there. Very often there’s a son who doesn’t get married and stays with the mother. I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing. I’m just saying it’s quite common here.

I have told him I feel religion is beneficial and why. We were talking about the state of the world one day, and I said to him I knew he would probably disagree, but a dose of religion does them no harm as it holds families and communities together. What doesn’t help is the scandals here, and the fact my parish priest who was very popular has just been convicted of child abuse. It’s shaken a lot of people. I have to say, my husband didn’t give me a hard time about it, and he didn’t mention it to the kids. That’s the funny thing about him. In ways he is supportive, and in other ways he isn’t.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Yes, he did. My son attends a Catholic school and in my part of the world, all the preparation for sacraments are done in school and the school arranges everything. That does not mean parents are not involved, they are. They have a special service for children making their first penance and receiving First Eucharist in the school. They receive a certificate and the priest comes for a short service. Both parent and child sign the certificate. On the certificate it says the parent promises to prepare the child and the child also promises they will prepare. At this service, child and parent bless each other with holy water. My husband consented to attend this service. It’s the first time he’s ever been at anything like that. He went because my son asked him to. He was disappointed his daddy couldn’t give him the blessing.

I appreciate what your saying about the chances being high of a child being atheistic if the parent is. The one thing I have on my side is families in my part of the world tend to be very matriarchal. To this day, there are families that all live near the mother, are in and out of the mothers house and have Sunday dinner there. Very often there’s a son who doesn’t get married and stays with the mother. I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing. I’m just saying it’s quite common here.

I have told him I feel religion is beneficial and why. We were talking about the state of the world one day, and I said to him I knew he would probably disagree, but a dose of religion does them no harm as it holds families and communities together. What doesn’t help is the scandals here, and the fact my parish priest who was very popular has just been convicted of child abuse. It’s shaken a lot of people. I have to say, my husband didn’t give me a hard time about it, and he didn’t mention it to the kids. That’s the funny thing about him. In ways he is supportive, and in other ways he isn’t.

The reason I asked is because your son has been receiving the grace of the Eucharist. That is not something to be taken lightly. I think receiving the Eucharist changes a person from the inside out. Not saying that people don’t walk away, because they do, but at least your son has had a “taste” of Jesus’ body and blood. It can’t hurt, and it might help.

But, in the end, it really is your husband who needs to stop tearing down what you are trying to build. Could you ask him what has changed, that he would start being derogatory just now? Is he angry at you for something, and trying to get back at you? I think you should try to figure out his motivations for these actions, while reminding him that he did sign on to allow you to raise the kids as Catholics. What he is doing is breaking that trust by undermining your work with them.

 

[robwar]

did you convert to the Catholic faith before you were married or after?

 

[robwar]

I feel for you. Your problem is only going to get worse as your boys go into the tween and teenage years and your family is divided between you and your husband. Your situation demonstrates very well why both parents should be of the same faith and on the same page in their religious beliefs and practice. You really should concentrated and pray for the conversion of your husband and the salvation of his soul. No matter what you thought he said he was going to let you “raise” to boys Catholic, his beliefs still will come through to your children. You need to be concern for his salvation. I am praying for you.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Here is a refutation of atheism.

 

[Hokomai]

Neither I nor my wife are believers, and raised our children without requiring them to agree or disagree with our conclusions. When they asked about religion we tried to provide information, rather than give our opinions. we made a point of not making too much of a fuss about prayers, hymns etc, and encouraged them to attend religious services with other members of the family so they would become better informed. There is no one ‘atheist way’, but I would always caution other non-believers against creating atheism into a form of belief. Atheism exists because God is not required to explain what we see, not because we ‘not believe’, or worse, 'believe there is no God. Children encouraged to be ignorant of religion are also cut off from understaning of much of history, a great part of art, and the behaviour of their neighbours. I also tend to agree that there is not really any such thing as a Catholic, Muslim or atheist child. There are just children learning. I know that is not the Catholic view, but at one level it is true for us all. Unfortunately, there are very few objective religious study materials for children which are not faith-based, making it tough for parents.

 

[robwar]

Neither I nor my wife are believers, and raised our children without requiring them to agree or disagree with our conclusions. When they asked about religion we tried to provide information, rather than give our opinions. we made a point of not making too much of a fuss about prayers, hymns etc, and encouraged them to attend religious services with other members of the family so they would become better informed. There is no one ‘atheist way’, but I would always caution other non-believers against creating atheism into a form of belief. Atheism exists because God is not required to explain what we see, not because we ‘not believe’, or worse, 'believe there is no God. Children encouraged to be ignorant of religion are also cut off from understaning of much of history, a great part of art, and the behaviour of their neighbours. I also tend to agree that there is not really any such thing as a Catholic, Muslim or atheist child. There are just children learning. I know that is not the Catholic view, but at one level it is true for us all. Unfortunately, there are very few objective religious study materials for children which are not faith-based, making it tough for parents.

Hi Hokomai,
you are fortunate that you and your wife were on the same page and beliefs. however, the OP has a Holy War on her hands and the family is divided and that is not a good situation to raise children in. This sad situation demonstrates the importance of marrying a partner that shares your beliefs and faith (or non faith in your situation) and practice. You and your wife did expose your children but you as a couple did not give your children a divided message of beliefs (or non beliefs).

 

[Hokomai]

Hi Hokomai,
you are fortunate that you and your wife were on the same page and beliefs. however, the OP has a Holy War on her hands and the family is divided and that is not a good situation to raise children in. This sad situation demonstrates the importance of marrying a partner that shares your beliefs and faith (or non faith in your situation) and practice. You and your wife did expose your children but you as a couple did not give your children a divided message of beliefs (or non beliefs).

I agree with what you say Robwar. I guess I was trying to illustrate that there are some possible points of common ground between an atheist parent and a Christian parent. although I have nothing in theory against people of divergent views getting married, I can’t see that it helps!

 

[minkymurph]

The reason I asked is because your son has been receiving the grace of the Eucharist. That is not something to be taken lightly. I think receiving the Eucharist changes a person from the inside out. Not saying that people don’t walk away, because they do, but at least your son has had a “taste” of Jesus’ body and blood. It can’t hurt, and it might help.

But, in the end, it really is your husband who needs to stop tearing down what you are trying to build. Could you ask him what has changed, that he would start being derogatory just now? Is he angry at you for something, and trying to get back at you? I think you should try to figure out his motivations for these actions, while reminding him that he did sign on to allow you to raise the kids as Catholics. What he is doing is breaking that trust by undermining your work with them.

Apologies to all men on the forum, but working out my husbands motivations on occasion, is as much a mystery to me as the mystery of the Holy Trinity. :hypno:

He may well be angry about something else and trying to get back at me.

 

[minkymurph]

did you convert to the Catholic faith before you were married or after?

After. Quite some time after in fact, about 13 years. We’re married 24 years.

We weren’t married in a church. We had a civil ceremony. Neither of us were that interested in getting married in a church. I never bothered about religion for a long time. I believed in God but didn’t want to be a JW. I went back for a while after my mother died, which in sense was a bad decision, in another a good decision as it inspired my conversion to Catholicism. I had been thinking about it for a long time and finally took the steps.

I can understand why it’s a big change for him, so I’ve never taken a hard line and in ways he has pretty tolerant. It took three years working on him to have my children baptized, but eventually I got what I wanted.

 

[minkymurph]

I feel for you. Your problem is only going to get worse as your boys go into the tween and teenage years and your family is divided between you and your husband. Your situation demonstrates very well why both parents should be of the same faith and on the same page in their religious beliefs and practice. You really should concentrated and pray for the conversion of your husband and the salvation of his soul. No matter what you thought he said he was going to let you “raise” to boys Catholic, his beliefs still will come through to your children. You need to be concern for his salvation. I am praying for you.

I agree. It does demonstrate how difficult things can be when parents on not on the same page, and his beliefs will come through.

Thank you for keeping me in your prayers.

 

[minkymurph]

Neither I nor my wife are believers, and raised our children without requiring them to agree or disagree with our conclusions. When they asked about religion we tried to provide information, rather than give our opinions. we made a point of not making too much of a fuss about prayers, hymns etc, and encouraged them to attend religious services with other members of the family so they would become better informed. There is no one ‘atheist way’, but I would always caution other non-believers against creating atheism into a form of belief. Atheism exists because God is not required to explain what we see, not because we ‘not believe’, or worse, 'believe there is no God. Children encouraged to be ignorant of religion are also cut off from understaning of much of history, a great part of art, and the behaviour of their neighbours. I also tend to agree that there is not really any such thing as a Catholic, Muslim or atheist child. There are just children learning. I know that is not the Catholic view, but at one level it is true for us all. Unfortunately, there are very few objective religious study materials for children which are not faith-based, making it tough for parents.

I would agree with you up to a point, that in a sense there is no such thing as a Catholic/Muslim child. Our beliefs are shaped by our parents and the faith community we raised in. Had we been raised another way, it is likely that is what we will be. So in one sense, as children our religion is chosen for us. A parent can raise a child Catholic, but there comes a point in time when they must embrace it for themselves. However, Catholics believe in Sacraments and baptism is a sacrament. If a child is baptized they are baptized. They can’t ‘undo’ it. Neither can they ‘undo’ the fact they have received the Eucharist.

I do think that cutting a child off from the things you mention does deny them a great deal. My son used to ask why his dad didn’t believe in God, and I tried to be objective. I told him people find it hard to believe in God because bad things happen in world, and they think God should do something about it. In relation to other religions, I do try to give information rather than offer an opinion.

 

[minkymurph]

Perhaps you can approach your husband from another angle, leaving religion totally out of the picture? Maybe that way he might feel less on the defensive.

As I ponder your situation I feel the real issue here has very little to do with religion itself, therefore a discussion with your husband about Catholicism or Athiesm may not be the solution. The issue is that you have a child being told totally opposite things on a very important issue from both of his parents, this is a matter of parenting. Clearly this is confusing and not good. Of course all children are exposed to different points of view on morality, religion, politics and family life but in the home it is best if parents are supportive in at least they don’t directly contradict one another on critical issues. Your son is being told by you and by his teachers at school that “there is a God” and his father is telling him “there is no God.” How is this useful? As a practical matter then your husband should ask that he be taken out of Catholic school since this is unfair to your son, is that what he wants?

You say that your husband is an otherwise good man and has been supportive in the past. Is there something that is causing him stress lately? Approach your husband with love, tell him the things about him that you admire and that you are grateful for his love and support. Try and draw closer to him and solve this problem in a loving way. Explain to him other ways that when you contradict one another directly that it is not healthy for your children…even something simple like when dad says you have to clean your room and mom says you don’t. When parents say the opposite it isn’t good for children, parents need to be a united front as much as possible! He does not necessarily have to embrace Catholicism and at this point probably won’t, however attacking it when your son is attending Catholic school is not fair to your son. It has very little to do with religion, I would be saying the same thing if your son went to music lessons and your husband told him that music was awful and a waste of time. God bless.

Thank you for this. This may be a good approach. To explain that it is confusing to be told there is a God on one hand, and there is not on another. I also wonder if the issue is religion, and not something else as this has happened fairly recently. In the past when my son asked questions about God, my husband gave the typically male response to difficult questions, ‘Ask your mother.’ Sorry guys

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thank you for this. This may be a good approach. To explain that it is confusing to be told there is a God on one hand, and there is not on another. I also wonder if the issue is religion, and not something else as this has happened fairly recently. In the past when my son asked questions about God, my husband gave the typically male response to difficult questions, ‘Ask your mother.’ Sorry guys

Tell your husband that if he were tearing down their knowledge base, it would be the same problem.

“Dad, the teacher says 2 + 2 = 4.” “The teacher is crazy, 2 + 2 = 15.”

Give him other examples of that and ask him what he thinks the end result would be.

“Dad, I just LOVE calculus! It’s fun!” “Son, there’s no such thing as calculus, it’s just bogus, a game some people made up.”

See what I mean?