Husband now wants kids

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I am sorry it never occurred to you that people grow and change over a lifetime and that there can never be a decision of this magnitude that is completely and irreversibly final nor can you place such a condition on your spouse.
Of course people grow and change, but her husband must have done a pretty good job of “selling” her on the fact that he wanted to remain childless too. Otherwise, she probably wouldn’t have married him. At this stage of the game it’s not really fair of him to play the “Guess-What-I-Changed-My-Mind” card.
You cannot compare your willful refusal to have children with infertility. They are not analogous.
Unless I missed something in my reading of this thread, she didn’t compare herself to someone suffering from infertility. She simply stated her belief that the marriage of a couple who does not have children, for whatever reason, also has worth.
 
I did agree to and say the vows b/c if by some miracle I was pregnant, I would of course go through with the pregnancy, but have no plans to get pregnant.

There are childless couples out there and I dont see that their marriage is less valid or not brining glory to God just because they dont have children.
You seem to be back-tracking: did you have no plans to have children, or did you plan on not having children?

There’s a difference: I didn’t plan on going out to eat tonight, but my wife asked me if I wanted to and I said OK. On the other hand (and bear with the example, it’s the first that came to me), I plan on not going to Klan rally tonight :eek: - or a strip club, or something else I wouldn’t want to go to - so were she to ask about that, I would say absolutely not.

Between those two options, your attitude seems like the latter - you planned on not having children, and you thought those plans were shared by your husband - who has clearly changed his mind (for the better! I might add, according to the Church). It’s not like you just didn’t have plans to have any children, like I had no plans to go out to eat. You had an active plan to avoid pregnancy for the duration of your marriage, and you thought your husband had that same plan.

The problem is that such a plan is considered by the Roman Catholic Church as a reason to suspect you and the man you live with are not at all married - that there is no valid *sacramental *bond that unites the two of you, because of these intentions. And notice, this is important: it is very likely your intentions in these circumstances are sinful, perhaps *mortally *so. :eek: You must seek the reliable advice of your confessor in this matter, as only he will be able to tell if you have put your salvation in doubt, through mortal sin.

Similarly, given these intentions, you must consult a marriage tribunal to determine if you are, right now, married. You very well may not be, and only they will truly be able to determine if you are. This is also important, because you seem confused about what counts as “valid” in marriage. You are confused, I think, because you say that you don’t “see” that a childless marriage is any less valid than a marriage blessed with children - this is a confusion because no one can see a sacramental bond of marriage. This is why the tribunal review processes are lengthy and difficult, because they must review everything about the marriage, have witnesses and paperwork - all to determine what your intentions were when you made your vows. And by your own admission, your intentions were not intentions consistent with a valid sacramental bond. Again, that means you may not be married in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church.

More broadly, though, if you are serious about your faith then you need to change your mind about kids - and be open to those lives your husband wants to bring into the world. If you truly feel called by God to barrenness, then you should get an annulment and live your life as a single, celibate person.
 
She simply stated her belief that the marriage of a couple who does not have children, for whatever reason, also has worth.
My emphasis above - This is not true. You can not have the same sort of “worth” in a marriage that is not open to life, as in the case of a couple who is infertile by no choice of their own. It just isn’t the case.

To the OP - I am not asking you to tell us, it is none of our business, but I am also concerned about HOW you are going about ensuring you have no children. You are surely aware of the Church’s stand on artificial contraception. I am concerned for your souls that you both make this right - and soon.

~Liza
 
First of all, I’m not baiting anyone. I have never had a crisis, so this was my first time on the site. I have gained a new appreciation for the bible verse “pray without ceasing,” as that has been all I’ve done all day long…

My husband & I talked many times about not having children before we got married. I am certain in my thoughts and he said he was certain too. I dont think myself naive for believing him.

I did agree to and say the vows b/c if by some miracle I was pregnant, I would of course go through with the pregnancy, but have no plans to get pregnant.

There are childless couples out there and I dont see that their marriage is less valid or not brining glory to God just because they dont have children.
hello;

I would probably spend some time on why it is that you feel you do not want children. Children are a part of a healthy marriage–fruits of that union. I think if you spend some time reflecting on the ‘why’ of your rationale, you might come away renewed and possibly more open to your husband’s newfound desire. I think that some people are naturally more nurturing, etc than others–but that doesn’t mean you couldn’t be a wonderful mom. Your husband might see something in you that you don’t. Please be careful in looking at your own desires as God’s calling. I have done that in my past too, and what I grew to understand was that I just wanted God to agree with my ideas of my future. :o ((HUGS)) to you…please pray, and know you’re in my prayers. I pray that you’ll get to the heart of the matter.
 
…you must consult a marriage tribunal to determine if you are, right now, married. You very well may not be, and only they will truly be able to determine if you are.
While I am certainly not an expert in these matters, it was my understanding that the Tribunal will get involved only after a civil divorce has been obtained. Am I wrong about that? :confused:
 
Of course people grow and change, but her husband must have done a pretty good job of “selling” her on the fact that he wanted to remain childless too. Otherwise, she probably wouldn’t have married him. At this stage of the game it’s not really fair of him to play the “Guess-What-I-Changed-My-Mind” card.
Your framing of this as “fair” versus “unfair” has no place within the context of the theology of the Sacrament of Marriage. In marriage, the two become one flesh and the woman’s body is no longer her own but belongs to her husband and vice versa. If one is not willing to make this commitment, one is not entering into marriage with the mind of the Church. He is not “playing a card”, he is honestly wanting children-- which is his right in a Sacramental marriage. It is, after all, the PURPOSE of marriage.
Unless I missed something in my reading of this thread, she didn’t compare herself to someone suffering from infertility. She simply stated her belief that the marriage of a couple who does not have children, for whatever reason, also has worth.
Then perhaps the OP will clarify her comment. However, validity is the issue, not “worth”.
 
While I am certainly not an expert in these matters, it was my understanding that the Tribunal will get involved only after a civil divorce has been obtained. Am I wrong about that? :confused:
That is my understanding as well. However, if they make it right and open their marriage to the possibility of children, the impediment may go away. I’m not a Canon Lawyer so I can’t speak to that, this is only my opinion.

~Liza
 
I don’t believe that tribunals ask for any paperwork from the state, but it is just far more common to seek an annulment whenever two people no longer want to be together. However, an annulment is simply a declaration that no marriage exists, which can happen whether or not the couple seeks such a declaration - given time and financial constraints, however, the Church doesn’t go around reviewing marriages to check their validity. 😛 People must come to them first.
 
The OP still needs to get to the heart of the matter. It’s easy for some of us to look at another person’s situation and say…well, this is what the Church teaches, so go fix it. lol It’s not that simple. She needs to figure out the WHY of her thinking…and once she can figure out why she feels this way about having children, then they can begin to work on the issue together. Perhaps, they come away from this, realizing that they can no longer be married–but there are sooooo many more steps they can take together before that. Let’s not dub this marriage invalid:o …this is part of marriage–helping one another seek the Truth, and help the other when he/she is hurting.

Just my thoughts.
 
I did agree to and say the vows b/c if by some miracle I was pregnant, I would of course go through with the pregnancy, but have no plans to get pregnant.

There are childless couples out there and I dont see that their marriage is less valid or not brining glory to God just because they dont have children.
Are you unable to conceive?
 
You can not have the same sort of “worth” in a marriage that is not open to life, as in the case of a couple who is infertile by no choice of their own. It just isn’t the case.
Respectfully, I understand that this is the position of the Church, and that it’s obviously your belief too. But it seems that it’s not **her **belief, and it seems that her husband convinced her, prior to getting married, that it was not his belief either.
 
Respectfully, I understand that this is the position of the Church, and that it’s obviously your belief too. But it seems that it’s not **her **belief, and it seems that her husband convinced her, prior to getting married, that it was not his belief either.
People evolve though. People’s personalities, goals, dreams, etc…change as they mature through a marriage. Unmarried people change as they age, too…my goals when I was 20 are far different now that I’m nearly 40. I’m also much more sensible and responsible than I was. So–people change. It’s a free country.😛
 
realizing that they can no *longer *be married
I’m sure that’s just a slip of the tongue, er, hand - right? 😃

They either are or aren’t married. If they are, then they can’t decide not to be any more. If they are not, then they may become validly married if she changes her intention about children, removing the impediment to the consummation of her vows.
 
I’m sure that’s just a slip of the tongue, er, hand - right? 😃

They either are or aren’t married. If they are, then they can’t decide not to be any more. If they are not, then they may become validly married if she changes her intention about children, removing the impediment to the consummation of her vows.
yes a slip of the hand! ha

It’s still too soon to tell…I don’t believe they should seek a divorce because she and he disagree on this right now. Gosh…where’s everyone’s hope? Marriage is about trials much like this. I have hope that there is a reason behind her not wanting to have children…it might take time and patience on her husband’s part to get to that with her…but this is something they need to settle.
 
So true. Sadly, in this situation, only one of them changed their mind about an important facet of their lives which profoundly affects both of them.

That is a great point–but don’t forget now…when we get married–we become one flesh. If one is Catholic, he/she believes that with all his/her heart. So–one flesh–one common goal for the good of the marriage. A lot of good can come from this situation–an unfolding of a marriage that they never knew possible. I can attest to feeling reborn in my own marriage, when I finally surrendered to the Church’s teachings on marital sexuality and fertility. It’s quite empowering and liberating…and bonded my husband and me like nothing else. That’s a long winded way of saying–they are one now.😃

On that we can agree!👍
Have to start somewhere!😛
 
Sadly, in this situation, only one of them changed their mind about an important facet of their lives which profoundly affects both of them.
There’s nothing sad about someone coming around and embracing the views of the Church! We should all be very excited for the husband, hoping that this change helps reconcile his life with God. 👍
 
There’s nothing sad about someone coming around and embracing the views of the Church! We should all be very excited for the husband, hoping that this change helps reconcile his life with God. 👍
yes! and that this also brings this marriage closer to God’s views.🙂
 
I don’t believe that tribunals ask for any paperwork from the state, but it is just far more common to seek an annulment whenever two people no longer want to be together. However, an annulment is simply a declaration that no marriage exists, which can happen whether or not the couple seeks such a declaration - given time and financial constraints, however, the Church doesn’t go around reviewing marriages to check their validity. 😛 People must come to them first.
Before a case can be accepted by the tribunal the petitioner must send in a copy of the marriage license and the final divorce decree.
 
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