Husband now wants kids

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Well I disagree that children must be a part of marriage barring extreme circumstances and that people should not get married if they donlt want kids.
Calliso, if you were “married” in the Catholic Church, then this post also applies to you and the man you live with. Also, the Catholic Church does not recognize “divorce” so called - there either is a marriage or there isn’t. If there is a marriage, it cannot be dissolved. If there is no marriage, then there never was one to begin with - a declaration of this option is called “annulment.” To suggest to someone to pursue another man without first finding out if she is already indissolubly married to a man is to put her soul in serious risk of hell (as well as yours! :eek: ). Please make sure you give people good advice on a Catholic forum.
 
Casillo’s profile says non-demom. Why would they be posting anti-Catholic advice here?
 
Calliso, if you were “married” in the Catholic Church, then this post also applies to you and the man you live with. Also, the Catholic Church does not recognize “divorce” so called - there either is a marriage or there isn’t. If there is a marriage, it cannot be dissolved. If there is no marriage, then there never was one to begin with - a declaration of this option is called “annulment.” To suggest to someone to pursue another man without first finding out if she is already indissolubly married to a man is to put her soul in serious risk of hell (as well as yours! :eek: ). Please make sure you give people good advice on a Catholic forum.
From your post referenced above:

If you are certain that God called you not to have any kids, then you should be fairly certain that he called you to a life of celibacy, perhaps cloistered with other nuns who share that calling.

That is just absurd!

In the RCIA class I am currently attending, during our lessons on marriage, nobody ever said anything that even hinted at an attitude so uncharitable and just plain ridiculous.
 
I’m confused. A catholic marriage, by definition, involves the intent to have children if possible. If one does not want children, why would one seek to be married in the Catholic Church?

If the Catholic definition of marriage (a man and woman joined together by God for the purpose of bringing each other and any/all children God grants them closr to God) isn’t attractive, then why do people ask for it?

A LONG time ago, I got some GREAT catholic faith formation and discernment advice. We were taught to evaluate choices based on 1. The Faith, 2. The Facts, 3. Our Feelings. In THAT order of importance. When you do this, you avoid terrible messes like the OP finds herself in.

Good thing God is merciful. Pray that God will show you His way forward. Every day, make some totally quiet time for that prayer and you’ll find the answer. He’s good like that.
 
From your post referenced above:

If you are certain that God called you not to have any kids, then you should be fairly certain that he called you to a life of celibacy, perhaps cloistered with other nuns who share that calling.

That is just absurd!

In the RCIA class I am currently attending, during our lessons on marriage, nobody ever said anything that even hinted at an attitude so uncharitable and just plain ridiculous.
How in the world do you take that statement was uncharitable or ridiculous? Do you think celibate nuns is a bad way of life? It is quite an honorable, humbling, and amazing call those women have. They are tough.

This suggestion you referred to was quite on the mark, and VERY charitable. If one doesn’t want children …ever…, then one is DEFINATELY not called to marriage.
 
From your post referenced above:

If you are certain that God called you not to have any kids, then you should be fairly certain that he called you to a life of celibacy, perhaps cloistered with other nuns who share that calling.

That is just absurd!

In the RCIA class I am currently attending, during our lessons on marriage, nobody ever said anything that even hinted at an attitude so uncharitable and just plain ridiculous.
RCIA class doesn’t go into detail about every aspect of Church teaching. While I may have worded it differently, nobeerinheaven is correct. When in doubt, just check the CCC. 🙂

bolding mine - other emphasis in the original
1643
"Conjugal love involves a totality, in which all the elements of the person enter—appeal of the body and instinct, power of feeling and affectivity, aspiration of the spirit and of will. It aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul; it demands indissolubility and faithfulness in definitive mutual giving; and it is open to fertility. In a word it is a question of the normal characteristics of all natural conjugal love, but with a new significance which not only purifies and strengthens them, but raises them to the extent of making them the expression of specifically Christian values."152
1652
"By its very nature the institution of marriage and **married love is ordered to the procreation and education of the offspring **and it is in them that it finds its crowning glory."162
Children are the supreme gift of marriage and contribute greatly to the good of the parents themselves. God himself said: “It is not good that man should be alone,” and “from the beginning [he] made them male and female”; wishing to associate them in a special way in his own creative work, God blessed man and woman with the words: “Be fruitful and multiply.” Hence,** true married love and the whole structure of family life which results from it, without diminishment of the other ends of marriage, are directed to disposing the spouses to cooperate valiantly with the love of the Creator and Savior, who through them will increase and enrich his family from day to day**.163
1654
Spouses to whom **God has not granted children **can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice.
2363
The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and **compromising the goods of marriage **and the future of the family.
The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.
2367
Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God.154 "**Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life **and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility."155
 
From your post referenced above:

If you are certain that God called you not to have any kids, then you should be fairly certain that he called you to a life of celibacy, perhaps cloistered with other nuns who share that calling.

That is just absurd!
continuing …

If a couple is not ready or willing to undertake the mission of marriage - transmitting life - they should not get married. Perhaps they will reach that readiness in the future but if either person is sure that they are not called to transmit life, fulfilling **both **of the obligations of marriage, fidelity and fecundity, then he/she is not called to the vocation of marriage. A vocation to the religious or the single life, yes; marriage, no.
 
You both seem like great candidates for an annulment, not wanting children and using birth control to avoid children is grounds for an annulment.

Anyway there are no children involved, you missed the point of the Catholic take of what a marriage is so I would say just get a civil divorce and an annulment through the Church and let your husband marry someone who wants kids.

What other option is there? If you are so convinced you don’t want children to the point of the very thought turning your life upside down you really shouldn’t have kids just to keep your husband.
 
Well I disagree that children must be a part of marriage barring extreme circumstances and that people should not get married if they donlt want kids. **But we are probably going to have to agree to disagree **on that at least in this thread 😉
That’s fine as long as it is clear that this is a Catholic forum, the OP and her spouse are Catholic and I stated the position of the Catholic Church. You can disagree regarding your own life, but not as to the teachings of the Church.
 
The link I made bold above, I think, says a lot. I suspect that many people do not feel they have what it takes to be a good parent (especially patience) and would rather not be a parent at all than be a bad one. I felt that way for a long time, and still do from time to time, not out of selfishness but out of fear. I do NOT want to be a bad parent. It will be very hard and I don’t want to fail.

I wonder, OP, if this is how you feel? The apologist’s answer that was given in that post is very applicable - you have to trust God. He’s not going to give you more than you can handle, and may just bless you with a kid or two that makes you happier than you have ever known.

Maybe you could start with small concept changes, which is what I am having to do. First, I am working on resolving in my head that he knows better than I do (actually big, but hardly a mantra of “I’m ready to have kids”). Secondly I am working on getting my mind around the fact that despite our planned NFP usage, he may bless us with a child whether we’re ready or not. I know that the difficulty around raising children will not change, my belief that I can do it has to change. Since I started thinking this way, popping out a few does not seem so horrific or impossible.

Maybe your husband has made this step. It wouldn’t hurt you to try. Opening your heart to the possibility just a little may set you on a course that will change everything.
 
How in the world do you take that statement was uncharitable or ridiculous? Do you think celibate nuns is a bad way of life? It is quite an honorable, humbling, and amazing call those women have. They are tough.

This suggestion you referred to was quite on the mark, and VERY charitable. If one doesn’t want children …ever…, then one is DEFINATELY not called to marriage.
My apologies to anyone who interpreted my statement as being negative about nuns or anyone who is called to live a religious life. Although I personally don’t understand why anyone would choose to spend their life that way, I have respect for those who do and I appreciate the service they give to the Church. I didn’t intend to suggest otherwise.

What I find absurd, uncharitable, and ridiculous, on the other hand, is the notion that living a celibate life without the company of a spouse is the only option one has if one does not feel called to have children. I guess I’m going to have to speak with Father about this. If, in fact, this is truly the teaching of the Church, then I am going to have to seriously reconsider my path to conversion, because I just don’t buy it.
 
What I find absurd, uncharitable, and ridiculous, on the other hand, is the notion that living a celibate life without the company of a spouse is the only option one has if one does not feel called to have children. I guess I’m going to have to speak with Father about this. If, in fact, this is truly the teaching of the Church, then I am going to have to seriously reconsider my path to conversion, because I just don’t buy it.
Look here : forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=200235

I think the big difference is if you are OPEN to God blessing you with new life. For example, if you said “I am not going to try to have kids, but if God decides to give me one then that’s fine” then while you are not actively trying to be a parent you are still fulfilling your vow (per the Apologist in the link above). However, if you are completely CLOSED to having children, as in “absolutely not, it’s horrible and bad, I will regret it being born and I will do everything in my power to prevent conception” then you are not cut out for being married in the eyes of the Church.

I doubt the Church expects every couple to get giddy and gooey over making lots of little bundles of joy as soon as they possibly can. It’s not realistic and hardly a case for insisting that they should be a nun or monk.

Do ask your priest, don’t go 100% off of what the posters here say. The Apologist in the link above did not tell the person who didn’t actively want kids to not get married.
 
Look here : forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=200235
I doubt the Church expects every couple to get giddy and gooey over making lots of little bundles of joy as soon as they possibly can. It’s not realistic and hardly a case for insisting that they should be a nun or monk.
Agreed! I won’t express my opinion as there seems to be an “all or none” belief for many here.

I will say that we know 3 couples married in the Catholic church with kids who have divorced. Simultaneously, know many people married Catholic with no kids (choice or chance - none of my business) who have been married for 20+ years with no signs of wavering.

I will say that as an educator, having kids and being parents are not the same thing and it is completely reckless and irresponsible to have kids for the sake of having them and not raising them appropriately. These are a product of various faiths.

My wife and I decided to wait 14 years to have children. I suppose some may view it as we didn’t get married until we began trying, I’ll view it otherwise. As some may view it as we’re not Catholic, I choose to ignore them since with or without the background, have absolutely no position to judge.
 
You’re right, we ought not judge other childless couples and make assumptions about their situation…

BUT…

There is a very definite teaching in the Catholic Faith, and it is not being judgemental to point out the correct teaching to those who have a misunderstanding. In fact it is a Corporal work of Mercy and looked upon favorably by the Church.
 
There is a very definite teaching in the Catholic Faith, and it is not being judgemental to point out the correct teaching to those who have a misunderstanding. In fact it is a Corporal work of Mercy and looked upon favorably by the Church.
I agree, so the points made to the OP about how her perception of Catholic marriage is askew are beneficial. Telling her that she should just get divorced and seek annulment does not. I feel that helping her possibly see another point of view and try to work things out with her husband is the best option.
 
What if the reason you can’t have kids is mental instead of physical? For example, a serious psychological reason? I decided not to have kids long ago and my reasons go back to my childhood and are very deeply embedded in my psyche. I’ve been in therapy and it helped a great deal, but I still have a huge mental block. I’m also manic-depressive. I’m going through menopause at this point, so it’s moot for me but I’m curious as to what others think.
 
It appears as though there is a variety of dissension from people who are unwilling to submit to God’s basic message to married couples: Be fruitful and multiply!

The Catholic Church understands this (as far as I understand it) to mean that married couples should try to bring new life into the world. There are two notions to unpack in that statement: should and try. Catholic couples should do this, because it is a moral obligation they have - an obligation whose satisfaction will bring a couple closer to God’s graces, and whose dissatisfaction amounts to discarding God’s blessing in their married lives. Bringing new life into this world creates the image of the Blessed Trinity in the family: a loving relationship of three in one cooperative family. And Catholics should try to bring about new life, in the sense that at least at some point during their marriage they do not actively avoid pregnancy whenever they engage in the conjugal act. Insofar as these acts do not result in fertilization, they have done no wrong as they have put the blessing of children in God’s hands, and out of their own. Even when people engage in NFP, they should know that this method for avoiding pregnancy is only morally licit on the condition that the couple has a serious reason to avoid pregnancy (as discussed between that couple and their confessor). Lifelong avoidance of pregnancy, barring some serious reasons like crippling poverty or extreme emotional distress, is sinful - and perhaps so gravely sinful that one puts her immortal soul in danger of hell. I cannot tell if any couple satisfies these conditions here, but the descriptions people have voluntarily submitted seems to indicate that the rationale for barrenness is something as trite as not wanting children. This reason, to be clear, is not a morally licit reason to avoid pregnancy. If people are using this as the reason they are continuing to engage in the conjugal act and avoiding pregnancy in that act, then (assuming this is done knowingly and willingly) they are participating in mortal sin and need to repent and confess these sins to restore salvific graces in their soul.

Yes, married couples should try to bring new life into the world. Not immediately, perhaps, but somewhere along the line their conjugal acts should be genuinely open to pregnancy with the intent to raise any resulting children as Catholics - and this duty is a principal goal of married life. A conjugal act being “genuinely open” to pregnancy means that it involves no form of contraception (contraception, of course, being *always *wrong) or Natural Family Planning. If a couple dissents from this duty, in willfully intending not to have children at any point in their marriage through active avoidance of pregnancy, then the Church openly questions whether such a dissenting couple is truly married. Several posters in this thread seem to describe themselves in this way - a position they should be aware is wrong, according to that one Catholic and Apostolic Church confessed to in the Creed at Mass.
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rick43235:
What I find absurd, uncharitable, and ridiculous, on the other hand, is the notion that living a celibate life without the company of a spouse is the only option one has if one does not feel called to have children.
[SIGN]Welcome to Rome, please check your own will at the door and you will be given a copy of God’s will for your life during confirmation![/SIGN]

Good to hear you are in RCIA. I am finishing RCIA and will be confirmed at the Easter Vigil in a few days. We converts should have a unique knowledge that becoming Catholic means submitting what we think in all matters to what the Church has preached now and always, an institution that St. Paul calls “the pillar and foundation of the truth.” Without such willingness, the soul is no closer to God before confirmation than it is after you enter the Church. Don’t make the mistake of being a Protestant: inside or outside of this most holy institution, The Church. Such a soul cuts itself off from God in the intellect, though not necessarily in the passions or in the will.
 
I will say that we know 3 couples married in the Catholic church with kids who have divorced. Simultaneously, know many people married Catholic with no kids (choice or chance - none of my business) who have been married for 20+ years with no signs of wavering.
Sure some Catholic couples divorce, and I cannot say whether or not their marriage was annulled and therefore never took place. Sure some Catholic couples do not have children, and I cannot say whether they chose that or suffer from infertility.

None of that changes what the Church teaches about children and marriage.
I will say that as an educator, having kids and being parents are not the same thing and it is completely reckless and irresponsible to have kids for the sake of having them and not raising them appropriately. These are a product of various faiths.
No married couple is “reckless” or “irresponsible” for having children. This idea keeps people afraid of having children! Children are a responsibility, not a nightmare.

Not raising ones children appropriately is a completely separate issue altogether. Are these couples incapable of raising any children? If so, they were reckless in getting married without prayerfully discerning their vocation. Did these couples have more children than they could provide for? If so, they may have been irresponsible in the number, not the fact that they had children in the first place. Or the parents could be irresponsible by not putting in the time and energy to raise their children despite being capable.
 
Calliso, if you were “married” in the Catholic Church, then this post also applies to you and the man you live with. Also, the Catholic Church does not recognize “divorce” so called - there either is a marriage or there isn’t. If there is a marriage, it cannot be dissolved. If there is no marriage, then there never was one to begin with - a declaration of this option is called “annulment.” To suggest to someone to pursue another man without first finding out if she is already indissolubly married to a man is to put her soul in serious risk of hell (as well as yours! :eek: ). Please make sure you give people good advice on a Catholic forum.
I am not Catholic, and aye sorry I didn;t know there wasn;t a such thing as a divorce. I just thought it was only for special circumstances, sorry 😦 And I probably came off the wrong way in my first post but can;t seem to edit it now…but should have been more clear that I do think divorce should be her last option. Not that she should go out right now and get one without at least trying to work things out and I guess since she is Catholic find out if she has a marriage or not.
 
I think the OP should talk to a priest about WHY she doesn’t want children, and if there is anything that can be done (if it is a mental block/fear to be a bad mother/childhood trauma etc) to change her mind…

Because there ARE mental traumas where women will do anything to avoid pregnancy/childbirth/raising children…Due to childhood abuse I have never wanted a relationship nor children, until I met a man who had similar experiences in his childhood and together we overcame, gradually, these issues. However, we both have a tendency to depression and the 2 children we have did cause a very long period of mental illness in my husband, something he is only now gradually getting over. And I, too, must admit to being fairly protective of my daughters, I find it difficult to ‘let them go’ and have fun, incase someone would abuse them…I do understand that it’s not always ‘easy’ to overcome your demons, for some people the thought of having children can be very terrifying…Not everybody wants to be ‘childfree’ out of selfish reasons…for some, a genuine trauma holds them back:shrug: !

Anna x
 
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