Husband served meat on Friday and I didn't want to embarass him

[jimmy]

Are you proposing that the Church’s laws on fasting and abstinence are merely arbitrary? Do you feel the same way about the Sunday obligation?

They are arbitrary in that there is nothing sinful about eating meat.

 

[Secret_Square]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. I guess I had better mention this in confession, and abstain from Communion until I do, just to be on the safe side.

I have made previous posts which describe how religion (particularly the Sunday Mass obligation) is kind of a touchy subject between the two of us. Too many times I get emotional and belligerent trying to defend the Faith to him, which only turns him away even farther from it. This time, however, I must have gone too far in the other direction of being too timid. Oh well…

 

[godisgood77]

Hi everyone, I have what may be kind of a strange question here but here goes.

My husband is a non-practicing/lapsed Catholic who is kind of erratic about following Friday abstinence during Lent. Sometimes he does it, but other times he either forgets or deliberately chooses to disregard it. He has in the past scolded me for being “fanatical” about Friday abstinence though he hasn’t done so for a while.

Most of the time I take a pro-active approach by specifically requesting or preparing a meatless meal on Friday. I did so this week (I made veggie and cheese pizzas). I came home from work and was getting ready to prepare the meal when my husband brought out some wraps he had made with tortillas, cheese, sliced ham and turkey. He had gone to the trouble of making them and setting them out on a serving plate, and said “I thought we would have these too.”

I realized right away that there was meat in the wraps and I really shouldn’t eat them. But at the same time, it appeared to me that he had prepared these in an attempt to be thoughtful, and simply had forgotten about it being Friday. So, not wanting to embarass him, start an argument, or waste food, I ate about half of my wrap (along with the pizza), and discreetly set aside the rest to eat on Saturday.

My question is: did I commit a sin that I am obliged to confess? Somewhere, I can’t quite remember where, I seem to recall being told that if someone accidentally serves you meat on a day of abstinence, you can go ahead and eat it if rejecting it would cause embarrassment or inconvienience to the host. Now that I think about it, however, I suspect that was meant for situations in which a non-Catholic who sincerely doesn’t know about Friday abstinence serves you meat. I’m not sure if it covers this situation or not. I will try harder to make sure this doesn’t happen again in the future.

May God bless you for being so thoughtful… I think what you did was mindful and full of charity. A Joseph Ratzinger quote comes to mind "Over the pope as the expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority there still stands one’s own conscience, which must be obeyed before all else, if necessary even against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority. "

If this is a sin at all, this would be a venial sin … you should go to Christ in the Eucharist and bask in his merciful love.

 

[Kal2012]

Is no-meat on Friday really an obligation?

In my parish RCIA, we are taught that it’s tradition, but not an obligation.

Am I getting inaccurate information?

Thanks in advance.

 

[aemcpa]

Is no-meat on Friday really an obligation?

In my parish RCIA, we are taught that it’s tradition, but not an obligation.

Am I getting inaccurate information?

Thanks in advance.

In the United States, it is an obligation on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday (on which days fasting is also obligatory), and the Fridays of Lent (on which days fasting is not obligatory), and “recommended” but not obligatory the rest of the year.

 

[1ke]

Is no-meat on Friday really an obligation?

Yes, it really is.

In my parish RCIA, we are taught that it’s tradition, but not an obligation.

It is an obligation on Ash Wednesday and all Fridays of Lent. In the US, you may choose another penance on other Fridays during the year, or may abstain from meat as your penance on other Fridays. In other countries, for example in England, the obligation is all Fridays during the year.

Am I getting inaccurate information?

Apparently.

 

[1ke]

and “recommended” but not obligatory the rest of the year.

Not exactly. One may choose to substitute another penance.

 

[aemcpa]

Not exactly. One may choose to substitute another penance.

“Penance” is required. The Bishops, as I recall but without a citation, have “recommended” maintaining the traditional practice but allow the substitution of a penance of the individual’s choice. If I can find the document where I saw what I took to be an official recommendation, I will pass it along.

In any case, they have requested that US Catholics fast and abstain from meat every Friday during the Year of Faith for the cause of Life, Marriage, and Religious Liberty.

 

[1ke]

“Penance” is required. The Bishops, as I recall but without a citation, have “recommended” maintaining the traditional practice but allow the substitution of a penance of the individual’s choice. If I can find the document where I saw what I took to be an official recommendation, I will pass it along.

In any case, they have requested that US Catholics fast and abstain from meat every Friday during the Year of Faith for the cause of Life, Marriage, and Religious Liberty.

I misunderstood your reply. We are on the same page, thanks.

 

[aemcpa]

I misunderstood your reply. We are on the same page, thanks.

No problem. My initial reply was ambiguous.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. I guess I had better mention this in confession, and abstain from Communion until I do, just to be on the safe side.

I have made previous posts which describe how religion (particularly the Sunday Mass obligation) is kind of a touchy subject between the two of us. Too many times I get emotional and belligerent trying to defend the Faith to him, which only turns him away even farther from it. This time, however, I must have gone too far in the other direction of being too timid. Oh well…

I support your eating. It is not the end of the world, as some seem to suggest, for crying out loud. The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath.

Nevetrtheless it is good to get sprirtual direction from your priest next time you go to confession. For the love of God do not stop going to communion. Your good intentions AND the obvious fact this is not an intrinsically evil act AND the facy that full knowledge has not been operating AND its small biccies … all suggest veniality at the very most, and I am not even sure it is that bad.

 

[aemcpa]

You acted in the best way you could. It is better to eat for charity’s sake, than to fast.

I support your eating. It is not the end of the world, as some seem to suggest, for crying out loud. The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath.

Glad to see so many bishops are posting on CAF these days to let us know that they have relaxed the Church’s law regarding fasting and abstinence.

 

[migueltojose]

It would be easier to understand the ‘embarassment’ defense if there would have been others with you. But since it was just the two of you it seems a bit of a stretch. But, not knowing either one of you and your relationship, I’m confident you made the right call based on your circumstances. Embarassment might not have been the right word… maybe it was more like “keeping the peace” or “minimizing the risk of alienation” in essence maybe you were taking one for the team (the two of you).

Living and interacting with Catholics (family, friends, co-workers) who are not devout or fully practicing is reality. Four out of five Catholics are either lapsed, or have “accepted” or incorporated secular relativism into their lives that it is nearly impossible to co-exist without adapting to a certain extent. We are only one out of five, and then only one out of five of those are devout, practicing Catholics. We haven’t gotten used to be such a small minority.

I would rather bend to maintain my family and friends and work on their further conversions than alienate them further. I am going to bring them home… or die trying…

 

[jimmy]

Glad to see so many bishops are posting on CAF these days to let us know that they have relaxed the Church’s law regarding fasting and abstinence.

It’s also great to see some of the Pharisees coming out of the cracks.

It’s also great to know that you will let us judge our own lives based on your conscience and your interpretation of the truth, even though your interpretation is in blatant contradiction with scripture and the history of spirituality.

 

[LisaB]

Excuse my question, but is eating Meat on Friday a mortal sin during lent or a venial sin? For that matter is fasting during lent a requirement or a suggestion?

Eating meat on Friday during Lent is a mortal sin, provided the other two requirements for a mortal sin are met.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Eating meat on Friday during Lent is a mortal sin, provided the other two requirements for a mortal sin are met.

I wasn’t aware that the 4th Precept involved “grave matter” (the 3rd essential requirement for mortal sin) but perhaps I am mistaken.

CCC references please?

 

[paperwight66]

In case there’s anyone viewing this thread from the UK, i want to point out that eating meat on Fridays in England and Wales is NOT a mortal sin. This was made clear in the press release put out by the Cathalic bishops when they announced the new rule.

 

[aemcpa]

I wasn’t aware that the 4th Precept involved “grave matter” (the 3rd essential requirement for mortal sin) but perhaps I am mistaken.

CCC references please?

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6PAEN.htm

"Therefore, the following is declared and established:

I. 1. By divine law all the faithful are required to do penance.

1. The prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are totally reorganized according to the following norms:

II. 1. The time of Lent preserves its penitential character. The days of penitence to be observed under obligation through-out the Church are all Fridays and Ash Wednesday, that is to say the first days of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent), according to the diversity of the rite. Their substantial observance binds gravely."

 

[aemcpa]

It’s also great to see some of the Pharisees coming out of the cracks.

It’s also great to know that you will let us judge our own lives based on your conscience and your interpretation of the truth, even though your interpretation is in blatant contradiction with scripture and the history of spirituality.

"Therefore, the following is declared and established:

I. 1. By divine law all the faithful are required to do penance.

1. The prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are totally reorganized according to the following norms:

II. 1. The time of Lent preserves its penitential character. The days of penitence to be observed under obligation through-out the Church are all Fridays and Ash Wednesday, that is to say the first days of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent), according to the diversity of the rite. Their substantial observance binds gravely." - Paul VI, Paenitemini

Whose interpretation? Blatant contradiction with what again?

 

[jimmy]

"Therefore, the following is declared and established:

I. 1. By divine law all the faithful are required to do penance.

1. The prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are totally reorganized according to the following norms:

II. 1. The time of Lent preserves its penitential character. The days of penitence to be observed under obligation through-out the Church are all Fridays and Ash Wednesday, that is to say the first days of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent), according to the diversity of the rite. Their substantial observance binds gravely." - Paul VI, Paenitemini

Whose interpretation? Blatant contradiction with what again?

That doesnt even address the question. It’s great that you can do a search and find a quote that doesn’t deal with the question at hand. The question is basically whether there are valid reasons to eat meat on Friday. And that isn’t even addressed by your quote.

And yes, your voluntarism contradicts catholic philosophy. Your absolutist view of legal aspects like no meat on Fridays contradicts catholic theology and scripture (check the story of when Jesus was condemned for working on the sabbath and read the story of when he was walking through the field with apostles). Read the teachings on the sacraments, and you will see where you contradict the catholic understanding of law. There are laws about how baptism, the Eucharist, and etc are to be performed and celebrated. But there are many situations where that doesn’t bind or just doesn’t apply. The way of thinking transfers over all legal aspects.

The problem is that you read the texts like someone who is an outsider. You see the law, and you think that is all there is to Catholicism. You follow the laws and you will be saved. paradoxically this idea is both burdensome, and crass. What you miss is the spirit of Catholicism; you miss the whole heart of what it is to be catholic.